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#483456 - 11/30/17 10:37 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
bryani289swmi Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 161
Loc: SW Michigan
A couple observations in this interesting series of exchanges.

1. To start with as an overall comment if people aren't happy with the magazine and content, rather than just complain maybe write an article. Look inside the next issue of the magazine, usually close to the Table of Contents a few pages in. Every issue has a plea for images, photos, short stories, or new ideas for pond management. Don't want to write an article? Maybe just an email or phone call to Pond Boss with a few ideas for articles which interest you. I bet this type of input would be much appreciated.

2. Sprkplug, to be blunt I don't see the concept of favoring of affluent pond owners in the magazine, forum, or conference(s) that you mention. I went and grabbed 3 issues of the last year and there were articles on large ponds, a large pond with a liner installation, and a lake association. There were more articles on docks, relative weight data and usage, genetics, small pond management strategies, feeding options, erosion issues and options, secchi disks, and aquatic vegetation. Seems to be pretty well balanced to me.
3. Relative to the conference, your concept of that totally baffled me. Were there successful, affluent, large landowners and large pond owners there? Absolutely. Were topics, discussions, actions skewed that way? Absolutely not. Maybe I'm missing the point but I’m not into the class warfare thing, if a guy with a 35 acre pond has an idea, method, or strategy that I can use or learn from I'm going to use it.
I also have paid to have someone consult with me onsite. I didn't do it because I'm a high roller or playing a high roller. I did it to avoid making mistakes. Why do I want to avoid mistakes? Because I'm doing all the work myself. My fleet of mostly antique dozers, pans, excavators, and draglines isn't expensive. It’s just old and affordable and ties in well with my other hobbies. My old crap might not survive the work I'm hoping to do with them, they certainly won't survive having to do it twice because I screw up. I've gone over the top with my points above but oh well. Just wanted to show a point of view on a comment from a different perspective.

Overall the point in this whole discussion is we all enjoy ponds and the management aspect. We all have different goals and objectives. For me I see a value in the magazine, forum, and conferences for the ends I'm managing towards. That's what information I try gather and what I try to make of it. I figure the less effort I put in limits my potential success. Thanks.

Bryan

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#483457 - 11/30/17 10:38 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Interesting thread.

First off, not every opinion is valid. Here thankfully, most are.

Tony, I remember you catching the LMB at Scott's years ago. I now wonder where that Tony has gone. Is your new job that stressful that it has changed you? I don't know. What I do know is you have changed. I still count you among my pondboss friends, but your outlook has changed.

Sunil, You too are a pondboss brother. Your passion and willingness to help out is admirable. You are part of the family.

John, after you host a "GTG," you will never see things the same. It changes your outlook.

I just spent the last few days with Bob. We had a great time working on a project for our farm. I could have paid someone to do the job, but now the project has a life and story. It is part of our history. I enjoyed the efforts and the lessons. It was good to take the time to work with a friend.

The intangibles, that is the place to look. For me lately it has been sunsets. God is a masterful painter, but you have to look when he does his work, or you will miss it. Pondboss conferences are not that spectacular, but they are fleeting.

Finally,Yes there is a cost to attend a conference. Life costs. I have a pond for my reasons. The best reason I have is the smile on a child's face who has just caught their first fish.

Do I have money to burn, nope, but I wish I did. So for now it will be choices, and I chose to go see my friends and try to learn something else. Like I said to Bob last night, the one thing that humbles me the is the fact that there is way more stuff I will never know than the stuff I know really really well. That is just the way it is, but that does not mean I have to stop trying to learn it all.

Funny, missing the boat is not something I thought I would be writing about on a pond focused forum. Something else I have learned.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#483459 - 11/30/17 10:46 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: John Fitzgerald]
4CornersPuddle Offline


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 245
Loc: southwest Colorado
Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
I opened a can of worms with my initial comment about the editorial a couple days ago. I should probably quit the forum. I feel almost as if I harassed someone.


John, I for one, can ask you to forget about quitting the forum. In the 2 short years that you've been here, you've asked many intriguing questions provoking many insightful replies. That's just the kind of contribution that makes this forum thrive.
Thanks for your posts.
Roger

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#483460 - 11/30/17 10:46 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: Bill D.]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Ok Bill D. Here ya go.

Big Brutus shovel

No more than 20 miles from my pond.

Who says we don't have tourist attractions in SE Kansas. "Big ball of twine" eat your heart out. grin

Come on down!


Edited by snrub (11/30/17 10:47 PM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

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#483464 - 11/30/17 11:35 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
Sunil Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 11521
Loc: Somerset, PA
Spark, you stated..."The world is not all easy questions and communal answers. Pretending otherwise, or limiting responses to what fits within the ideal range, never provides an accurate assessment of the pulse of anything..... You can't have it both ways. Truth, or feel-good moments? Take your pick."

Just so I can understand...does this 'pulse' that you're referring to, the one that none of us are getting, or 'pretending otherwise' about, translate that we are missing input from you about how to get someone to pay to attend a Pond Boss Conference when you vociferously will not subscribe to the magazine, nor financially support something you spend hours a week using (the forum)?

In other words, we're not getting your 'pulse?' If so, we're going to have a lot of ground to cover to get you from being a non-paying participant over to a several-hundred-dollar-paying customer.

I'm really trying to understand this, considering this gem you squatted out prior to the quote above: "And let me aid your digestion of how all this helps pondboss......it doesnt. I'm not here to help pondboss, I'm trying to help other pondmeisters when I can. Pondboss doesn't need my help. Or at least it shouldn't."

I think I finally get it. You're not here to help Pond Boss, but you want to help other pondmeisters when you can......using the Pond Boss Forum. That's certainly laudable, but maybe consider the vessel you're using to spread your good works.

So maybe try not to hurt Pond Boss by publicly espousing your own personal reasons for not subscribing to the magazine which could in turn cause other forum readers to not subscribe (there are hundreds if not thousands of readers of this forum).

Maybe don't hurt the Pond Boss business by publicly espousing the numerous reasons why you specifically didn't attend the conference which could in turn cause other forum readers to not attend (there are hundreds if not thousands of readers on this forum).

I think it was Confucius who said.. "...please don't crap in our own bed."
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#483469 - 12/01/17 07:27 AM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: snrub]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: snrub
Ok Bill D. Here ya go.

Big Brutus shovel

No more than 20 miles from my pond.

Who says we don't have tourist attractions in SE Kansas. "Big ball of twine" eat your heart out. grin

Come on down!


Now that's what I'm talkin about! smile
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#483470 - 12/01/17 07:48 AM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I think this is the time to say THANKS to Mr. Lusk for the conferences, the magazine and this forum and for it's Moderators he choose. And I am thankful for everyone who contributes to the questions and the possible answers "it depends" I have received here. I'm ok with the ones that do not attend, or contribute cash into this good place because most everyone has contributed in knowledge or experiences with ponds and lakes. But, if I was Bob I would like for things to maybe balance out when it comes to his expenses in providing such things as listed above. Or at least be a low cost expense for doing business. And Sparkie, I hope you do not get so upset with the conversation here that you reduce your attendance. I don't have hybd bg, or work on motors, elevators or make maple syurp. And I think we all change over time, I know I am a little more grumpy than I have been all my life. But I think you contribute here even though we may not see things the same in our other life's experiences. And Sunil along with others here, thanks for all you do here.

One more thing about the conference. One of the reasons I attended was to here and meet a certain speaker, but he did not show for some reason or another. It happens to all of us, not being able to be where we agreed to be. But maybe if I am lucky I will see him at the next one.


Edited by TGW1 (12/01/17 07:48 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#483482 - 12/01/17 09:08 AM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
"So maybe try not to hurt Pond Boss by publicly espousing your own personal reasons for not subscribing to the magazine which could in turn cause other forum readers to not subscribe (there are hundreds if not thousands of readers of this forum).

Maybe don't hurt the Pond Boss business by publicly espousing the numerous reasons why you specifically didn't attend the conference which could in turn cause other forum readers to not attend (there are hundreds if not thousands of readers on this forum).
"

Wow Sunil, I'm not sure if I should be flattered by your assertion that one HBG loving,socially inept, Hoosier pondmeister wields such a powerful influence over the pond community as to have them hanging off his every word. Or maybe I should be concerned at the idea that the PB grasp of the cliff face is so tenuous that the smallest dislodging of rock will send it hurtling downward. I don't think that is the case. At least I sincerely hope it isn't.

Brian, I remember that day also. It was really hot. And it was really cold when a bunch of PB's spent the weekend at the Herman Bros place, punching holes through the ice and jigging up some awesome fish. I do recall the temp. being just about right when still another group gathered off Bruce Condello's dock, though. Those three events rank up there pretty high on my list of memorable occurrences. I thoroughly enjoyed each one. I mention them in order to help illustrate that yes, things change. As we progress through life we look at things differently. Our perspectives change. What was once important, or even beliefs accepted at face value, we begin to question.

Brian I am surely different now, than I was then. But that change didn't occur overnight, or within this thread. It's been accumulating over time where PondBoss is concerned. I think Sunil wants to make this about the conference....but to me this was just the latest incident in a chain of events. I don't separate them out, they are all related, and all PondBoss.

"Spark, you stated..."The world is not all easy questions and communal answers. Pretending otherwise, or limiting responses to what fits within the ideal range, never provides an accurate assessment of the pulse of anything..... You can't have it both ways. Truth, or feel-good moments? Take your pick."

Just so I can understand...does this 'pulse' that you're referring to, the one that none of us are getting, or 'pretending otherwise' about, translate that we are missing input from you about how to get someone to pay to attend a Pond Boss Conference when you vociferously will not subscribe to the magazine, nor financially support something you spend hours a week using (the forum)?
"

Here we go. I'm just going to jump headfirst into this, because I'm not sure how to approach it any other way. Sorry if it gets pretty jumbled up.

Remember all the discussions we tried to have over the years regarding water rights, property rights, WOTUS, etc? In each case the conversations were shut down. "too political". Well of course it was...the two elements are forever entwined. That should not be grounds to avoid discussing something THAT AFFECTS EVERY PONDOWNER HERE. But no, we can't have discord among the membership, no matter what. No discussion. We'll just hope it goes away.

There's a seed sown in the decade of sprkplug's discontentment.

Sunil, you and I agree on this point...there are hundreds of readers of this forum. And a handful of these people live, and are known by, yours truly. They do not subscribe. Care to guess why? Because they see the mag, and some of the forum discussions, as too highbrow. Now I read on that same forum where others are feeling a little left out in that regard also. And when it gets brought up in this thread, out come the attacks? Just because YOU don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there, boys. I have said this for years. And I'm apparently not alone.

Another seed in the ground.

And just in the last few days, someone asked about opening old threads. The all clear was given by everyone who responded, including the mods. Then, when the subject of GG was introduced, we see a reversal, with ewest claiming that it's best to let sleeping dogs lie, or something along those lines. I responded to ewest, in more civil tones than what someone is responding to me now, and my post is yanked while another post is made regarding no personal attacks??

Which is it boys? Somebody needs to own it, admit that a mistake has been made, and clarify which of the conflicting answers is the correct one.

Another seed. And by now they have all sprouted.

And most recently in this thread, I am informed that I should be paying for the privilege of trying to help someone, because I'm USING this forum as the platform to do so. Here's another shocker: I don't see it that way. Use, to me, implies some benefit gained to the user. I'm not asking questions, stealing ideas, needing help....nothing. I am completely content with my current level of knowledge regarding my pond projects and fish. I have a pretty good handle on it, and I do not expect a paradigm shift where bluegills are concerned, in the near future.

Over the past several years I have written articles for the mag, supported the forum financially, and up until recently, subscribed. Once again, I feel I've paid my debt.

Like it or not, believe it or not, there's a problem here someplace. I didn't bring this up, remember? Someone else who shares some of what I've been trying to say for years, did. Getting nasty and insulting when someone has the audacity to suggest that the PB universe might have drifted out of focus, isn't helpful.

if you ask for suggestions, be prepared for what you might receive.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#483489 - 12/01/17 10:24 AM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 871
Loc: in the mountains
If there is one thing I have I have learned through all my years of being in business for myself it is that you will NEVER make EVERYONE happy. Period. The END. If you strive to satisfy the wants of every single customer you are doomed to fail. Best one can do is have the highest possible average of happy customers and I think PB does that very well.

For me driving to a conference in TX is just not in the cards time wise, etc. However, I will certainly attend the next one that is in Atlanta. Mainly just to meet everyone and have a good time. Learning more is just a bonus.

I am a finance guy so I can easily look at this with an investment perspective. I spend ~$60 per year with PB between my mag subscription and forum donation. I could spend that for the next 40 years ($2,400) and I would consider the success I have had with my pond and the friendships I've made here a HELL of a return on that investment. Admittedly, I place a fairly high value on good relationships and my family and friend's enjoyment of the pond especially when I start thinking about grandkids, etc.


Edited by wbuffetjr (12/01/17 10:25 AM)
_________________________
Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management

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#483499 - 12/01/17 11:21 AM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1889
Loc: West Michigan
Did the organizers hand out or provide an easy online means to directly give feedback for the venue, location, activities, speakers, date or dates, length of conference at past conferences?

if not, why not? There is a lot of pent up feedback being released in this thread and it needs to be released continually, hopefully in a constructive way, immediately at the time of the event.

Spark might be on to something that focus or feelings in the forum are drifting or have drifted and if one wants to get a better handle on the pulse you check it more often, and ideally while the event is happening.

I will apologize publicly for being part of the revival of the GG thread. I'm sorry. I simply didn't know the backstory as it happened before my time and even though it might have woken up a sleeping dog to me it was informative to learn about. If we don't know our history we run the risk of repeating it. I was surprised that the mods so quickly tried to squelch the information when one can easily google it and we had just been given permission to talk about old threads. I'm sorry to hear that Spark had his post deleted, that probably was partly my fault too.

It seems like the seed he planted about the double standard in acceptable behavior between the common joe user and the moderators might have germinated

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#483507 - 12/01/17 12:50 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
CC,
The standard is the standard. I have only been here for about seven years, but everyone I have interacted with lives by the standard. This is a magical forum. Yes there are problems and quarrels, but they work themselves out like any other family problem. Sometimes that means people drift away. It's normal.

I assure you that you did not cause this. It has been going on for some time now. I like facts, logic and reasoning, others like emotions. It is a free country, mostly. Pondboss will go on. It will learn form this and grow. In the end, we all make our choices. I choose to stay engaged. George was mentioned earlier in this post, I remember that thread and the responses from them both. George would give you the shirt off his back and scold you for loosing yours at the same time. It was how he was. But he would not let BS go unchallenged. George has been gone for over two years and if that thread still bothers someone, they will have to work it out for themselves. That may include drifting away.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

Top
#483512 - 12/01/17 01:13 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
I never met George, but I admired him for the quality that high flyer mentions. He wasn’t afraid to call BS, and speak his mind when he saw something not quite right. I can’t say what his feelings might’ve been on this current subject, or what he would’ve said publicly. But I believe there was a part of him that would’ve given a discrete thumbs up to the guys who had the nerve to suggest that there might just be a little sleight of hand, behind the pond boss “magic”.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#483514 - 12/01/17 01:35 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Okay, I'll bite.

Tony, I am unsure if you understand the "Magic" of this group. It does not exist due to slight of hand. Consider how many people you are painting with your brush.

George loved to discuss and argue for the same reason. Understanding. Would he have given a thumbs up to all this, Well that is up for debate. What I do know is that he would not have kept quite about this. And there would be a scolding involved.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#483515 - 12/01/17 01:35 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
George paid out of his pocket to go to conventions. He tied flies for PB until his hands were bloody and I had to make him stop. He worked at the conventions even when he was sick with cancer. He used his connections to help PB through donations and having his industry friends donate all to help kids get an education through PB. George helped with the creation of the PB Forum rules and followed them. He would often ask privately why we gave people so much slack when they did not follow the rules. George did everything he could , even up to the time of his death, to support this PB family. Those were his actions which speak volumes about what he believed. George was a man of principle and would never be involved in any group if he thought there was some slight of hand.
_________________________















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#483516 - 12/01/17 01:37 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: highflyer]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Originally Posted By: highflyer
Okay, I'll bite.

Tony, I am unsure if you understand the "Magic" of this group. It does not exist due to slight of hand. Consider how many people you are painting with your brush.

George loved to discuss and argue for the same reason. Understanding. Would he have given a thumbs up to all this, Well that is up for debate. What I do know is that he would not have kept quite about this. And there would be a scolding involved.


Maybe that’s the thing Brian. I think we might disagree on which side needed the scolding.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#483517 - 12/01/17 01:42 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 776
Loc: Paris, TX
What was George's PB ID? I would like to figure out to whom you all keep referring to.
_________________________
1.8 acre pond with FHM(gone), CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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#483518 - 12/01/17 01:44 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
Sunil Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 11521
Loc: Somerset, PA
Spark, just to help you out here....george would be giving you a public flogging. He would not be giving you any kind of 'discrete thumbs up.'

george absolutely HATED any kind of negativity. HATED it with a passion.

And george would not sit by and let someone do any kind of harm to Pond Boss at all.

I can't believe you invoked him to your defense for some perceived 'sleight of hand' or dubious 'magic' on the part of Pond Boss, or any of the rest of us.
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#483520 - 12/01/17 02:28 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: BrianL]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Originally Posted By: BrianL
What was George's PB ID? I would like to figure out to whom you all keep referring to.


He was "george1" here. He was also "george" way back in the beginning on the original server. Read up on him, he was the real deal.

I was glad to be able to call him a friend.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#483521 - 12/01/17 02:46 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: Sunil]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Sunil I'm a big boy, I don't need defending. You, Brian, and Eric all knew George, I didn't. If you say he wouldn't of admired anyone who had the guts to stand up, then I will take your word for it. But look at your recent post.

George hated negativity with a passion. What I get from that, is that the flogging I would be receiving stems not from the subject matter, but from arguing over it in the first place. And that's exactly what I have been trying to say. I've said it in this thread, I've said it through the years, and I said it in the post that Eric(?) removed.

Negativity is necessary for growth. But we don't permit that here, because this is a magic place. I know of another magic place in orlando, staffed by a giant mouse and his friends. And it's pretty magic all right. Everything is rainbows and unicorns in there. But it isn't REAL, is it??

And I said as much in the assassinated post. Something to the order of negativity being necessary...negativity promotes dialogue, dialogue promotes thinking about the hard stuff, thinking promotes progress. Trying to exist without asking the hard questions about difficult subject matter isn't magic....it's stagnation.

And that's fine if everyone is on board, and happy with the illusion. No problem. The problem, arises when the magic begins to wane. "Why didn't more people come to the conference, or what can we do to promote greater subscription rates?"

See, once those questions get asked you need to lift the veil. Asking the residents of the magic kingdom for answers may be fruitless....after all, they are happy just the way things are now. They don't see any problem, do not want to even know about a problem. And if a few do courageously make suggestions, or imply that the magic is obscuring reality to an increasing degree, then it's anarchy unleashed...."the kingdom will surely collapse".

No, it won't.

All I'm suggesting is to take a look at what's been posted in this thread. A very high percentage of folks listed the camaraderie as reasons for attending. I agree. But that can be had around a table at a Denny's somewhere. Common, down-to-earth, awesome pondowning folks are everywhere. Why not try and cater a little bit to their needs and abilities?

As far as me, personally? Yes, we all know my social anxiety disorder presents challenges. I'm not asking for change to accommodate me, as I'm always going to be this way. It's easy to Pshaw away my posts on the subject. But guys, I'm not the only one saying things could maybe be better.....isn't it worth a look see?

That's the sleight of hand I'm referring to here on PB. Not implying deliberate deception by any means, on anyone's part. But there is an illusion present, nonetheless.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#483522 - 12/01/17 02:48 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
basslover Offline


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 545
Loc: USA
I have many years in conferences, both as an invited speaker and as an organizer, and perhaps some thoughts might be of use (or not!).

As a presenter/speaker/lab instructor I expected the host organization to pay for my travel and lodging. Meals, incidentals, transfers, etc., I didn't expect to be covered although most of the time they were. Airfare was always the high cost, followed by lodging. I flew cattle class and stayed in a simple room as I'm a simple man and did not require business or first class let alone a suite of sorts. I also expected to have the conference fee(s) waived. Most of the time these fees were waived without discussion, but a few times some back and forth straightened this out. In a nutshell I viewed it as my expertise, experience and knowledge were bringing in 'X' paying bodies, and so having my travel, lodging, and fees covered were fair play. I was aware of other speakers who in addition to this coverage also required a speaking fee. Might be important to note that most of this experience was earned while I was a bachelor, and so traveling the world on someone else's dime and teaching something that I have a passion for was a no brainer. I had no spouse nor child(ren).


As a conference organizer I found out quickly all the bullspit that goes on if allowed between the conference people and the speakers and attendees. I mean just some real picky crap about travel, transfers, lodging, etc. Our first conference we hoped for 100 attendees. We got nearly 200. Second year 350. Third year we limited attendance to 400 and it sold out in advance for the next couple of years. Until I stepped back from the well oiled machine and a few chuckle heads took over who saw dollar signs instead of a kick arse quality event at an affordable price point. Other similar conferences, in duration and topics and speakers, ran around $1000 for attendance (not including lodging). We charged $300. We also were a non-profit and so we weren't in it to make cash.

I think key factors in a successful conference;
- marketing
- timing
- location
- schedule
- topics / speakers
- financial cost

Marketing is always crucial. We didn't need to market because we knew the key speakers and having them participate brought in attendees. But never discount the long reach of marketing because some times attendees come who you never would have thought would come.

Timing - we picked a time of the year wherein there were no competing conferences. I don't know how many conferences there are for ponds / fish management, so this might not be a crucial factor. But timing also with respect to avoiding holidays, school dates of importance, etc. Depending upon the location, having a conference just ahead of or at the tail end of another event can bring in more attendees, such as a professional game, a concert, a festival, etc.

Location - we stayed in a suburb of Atlanta. That meant folks had to transfer from the airport, but it also meant lodging around $35 cheaper per night, more dining options and often lower price point, and more lodging options. Plus ample parking, less congestion, etc. Plus our conference fee including Internet, food, etc., was about 55% cheaper than a large hotel chain downtown.

Schedule - A few things here. One, we had downtime each day for folks to network, hang out, etc. We did two days lunch catered and two days not catered so folks could pick food and go off into groups or what not. We had one official dinner but otherwise again it was up to attendees. Having this time was popular from feedback. It wasn't go go go, there was 15 minutes between sessions, we started at 8:30 AM and ended at 4:30 PM. Two, we had a field trip optional for attendees. This 2 hour trip allowed folks to come along or do their own thing. Most came along to see how easily a computer could be booby trapped to explode - we did this at a local rock quarry complete with emergency services. Also, we had multiple tracks running each day, but we tried to get every topic repeated on a different day and time so ideally an attendee would hit every session they wanted.

Topics / speakers - some of this is above, but we had a variety of topics from beginner to expert and we tried to select speakers who A) knew their sh*t and B) were personable and not a schmuck. I definitely did not invite some experts because of their known attitudes.

Last but clearly important the direct and obvious cost and the overall total cost. We charged a fee that covered all expenses and provided a profit that was put back into the organization for next year's conference. You can't afford to lose money, but you can choose what percent to make. By staying away from a conference center we avoided the high costs associated with it - we chose a university who had a single building that we took over and used for the four day conference. The university already had Internet, labs, and classrooms so costs were minimal. At some point the chuckle heads looked at a conf center and saw just what the entrance fee was to rent it and decided yeah the uni was the best choice for us. LOL

Some already said it best you can't please everybody. You basically try to put on an event for the most number of folks who can attend and learn.

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#483525 - 12/01/17 03:10 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: ewest]
Zep Online   content
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3094
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Originally Posted By: ewest
George paid out of his pocket to go to conventions. He tied flies for PB until his hands were bloody and I had to make him stop. He worked at the conventions even when he was sick with cancer. George did everything he could, even up to the time of his death, to support this PB family.


Amen ewest....God Bless Him....this place misses his feisty insight and love for PondBoss!





_________________________
Fishing has never been about the fish....


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#483530 - 12/01/17 05:42 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
What about a poll, completely anonymous, asking if you have ever felt like the PB conferences were geared towards affluent pondowners? tabulate the results and see if the numbers merit discussion?

Maybe ask several questions regarding what participants would like to see and experience in the future, and what they would be willing to pay?

Canyoncreek, you do not need to apologize for anything. I would like a public apology from whomever removed my post however, as I feel it was done for personal reasons, and not because it violated any forum rules. I would also appreciate a definitive yes or no answer on whether or not it is okay to revisit old threads.

I see this thing shaking out in one of two ways. Either I'm going to banned camp, or we're going to the old standby of hoping it just goes away on it's own. In the past, I have been told that it was far better to take the high road, and let it go, for the good of the forum. And I did so. But i believe the need to travel at a loftier altitude in this particular case, belongs to a mod. If there is one standard that applies to all of us, this would seem an excellent opportunity to validate that assertion. For the good of the forum.

Either way, I feel I need to make something clear. I'm angry about this whole deal, and I feel I've been wronged. To that end, I am not prepared to simply let it go this time. Please do not confuse what I say next as a warning or threat, as I am very aware that PB will continue for years without sprkplug's participation.... I know that and accept it. But if I am sent to banned camp, do us all a favor and save us all a lot of time, and make the suspension permanent.
Because if you don't, I'm probably going to come right back to this thread on the day my suspension is lifted. Again, I don't say that as a threat, or to try and force someone's hand. I say it out of a strength of conviction that I have been wrongly treated.

To me, how this is eventually handled will speak volumes. It appears everyone is watching.


_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#483535 - 12/01/17 06:21 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
Zep Online   content
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3094
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
i've got Xanax but probably not enough to go around cool

guess we could break off chunks



_________________________
Fishing has never been about the fish....


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#483538 - 12/01/17 06:48 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
That's awesome Zep! Thank you for your most helpful contribution. I guess it's true, you're never too old to enjoy a little fraternity humor! Ah, the good ole days.....hazing, degradation, exclusion, bullying....true character shapers, those.

Thanks for the walk down memory lane, it's been fun and all, but I'm going back to the grownup table now.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#483539 - 12/01/17 07:00 PM Re: O.K. Lets see a show of hands. Who's going... [Re: esshup]
Zep Online   content
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3094
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Sparks....that Xanax is powerful stuff....I get anxiety in dental chairs and airplanes...the only time I ever take it....one time I was on a plane ride at night and it got very, very rough....in fact it got dead silent....i had already had a Jack/Coke and Xanax...which is kind of no no....but I remember being so relaxed...I actually thought to myself...."hell I really don't care if this thing goes down....whatever happens happens"....just shows how relaxed it makes me. Yep the good ole days were fun weren't they?...for me that was 1975-1977...me and the posse thought we owned the world...lol...life sure was simple.
_________________________
Fishing has never been about the fish....


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