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#481956 - 10/31/17 02:43 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5299
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: KapHn8d

Is you recommendation to avoid sunfish based on their reproduction rate? I was kinda looking forward to letting my little nieces fish those...


Clayton,

If you really want SF, one option might be to stock Hybrid Bluegill (HBG) They have limited reproduction, grow fast, fight hard and are easy to catch. A couple of Hybrid Stripe Bass (HSB) might help control the limited HBG reproduction and provide a nice bonus catch. Both HBG and HSB readily take pellets if you decide you want to feed fish.

I agree that CC would probably work as well but some folks avoid them as they can tend to stir up the bottom and cloud or muddy the water.
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#481959 - 10/31/17 03:26 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: Bill D.]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
Thanks for the tips... I heard something at Pond Boss VII about catfish being cavity spawners and they would hollow out parts of the pond bank to make a hole. Was that only a particular type? Was I hallucinating?

My friend's 9-yr old mini-pond I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread was stocked with catfish early on and they have more or less taken over. They are offering up opportunity to help cull the numbers on rod and reel. I suppose I'm looking for some happy medium between a variety of fish that can reach some low-maintenance stability in the little ecosystem. If I start with feeder fish species and introduce predator species later, I'm buying into a different (not necessarily better or worse) management path than if I avoid introducing predator species intentionally, no? I mean, you can't help what the birds put in there... another local friend with a small pond near me didn't stock any fish at all and now has a yellow bass population his daughter fishes... courtesy of mother nature.

I'll poke around at what local sourcing options I have for hybrid bluegill.

Thanks,
Clayton


Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: KapHn8d

Is you recommendation to avoid sunfish based on their reproduction rate? I was kinda looking forward to letting my little nieces fish those...


Clayton,

If you really want SF, one option might be to stock Hybrid Bluegill (HBG) They have limited reproduction, grow fast, fight hard and are easy to catch. A couple of Hybrid Stripe Bass (HSB) might help control the limited HBG reproduction and provide a nice bonus catch. Both HBG and HSB readily take pellets if you decide you want to feed fish.

I agree that CC would probably work as well but some folks avoid them as they can tend to stir up the bottom and cloud or muddy the water.
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

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#481961 - 10/31/17 04:07 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1572
Loc: West Michigan
start with forage, go slow, hold on predators, especially CC as once hookshy they are hard to get out.

What is a yellow bass?

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#481963 - 10/31/17 04:13 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5299
Loc: Boone County Illinois
If you are planning on swimming in the pond, a word of caution. Both BG and HBG have been known to nip swimmers.
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#481966 - 10/31/17 04:23 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: canyoncreek]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
Another name for striper: https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/species/yellowbass/

/c


Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
start with forage, go slow, hold on predators, especially CC as once hookshy they are hard to get out.

What is a yellow bass?
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#481967 - 10/31/17 04:24 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: Bill D.]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
Ha! Good to know... I couldn't get my wife in that pond if I threw her in... she may not even touch the water before being back on the porch.


Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but apparently I should have had her jog around the pond in high heels before filling. laugh

/c



Originally Posted By: Bill D.
If you are planning on swimming in the pond, a word of caution. Both BG and HBG have been known to nip swimmers.
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#481968 - 10/31/17 04:30 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1552
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: KapHn8d
Ha! Good to know... I couldn't get my wife in that pond if I threw her in... she may not even touch the water before being back on the porch.


If you decide to throw her in, please share the aftermath with us. LOL
_________________________

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#481970 - 10/31/17 04:45 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: John Fitzgerald]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
When/if I get out of the hospital, I certainly will... haha!


/c


Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Originally Posted By: KapHn8d
Ha! Good to know... I couldn't get my wife in that pond if I threw her in... she may not even touch the water before being back on the porch.


If you decide to throw her in, please share the aftermath with us. LOL
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#481988 - 10/31/17 09:11 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
scott69 Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 934
Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
i would stock with fathead minnows as soon as water conditions allow. then i would find someone with a bluegill heavy pond and try to get 100 percent males. i wish you were closer to me. i would love to cull some of my bluegill. you might grow a record fish in that little pond. if you had a 150 or so in there, it could still be fun for the youngster to fish in.

about compaction- my first pond was built with an excavator and dozer only. it never leaked a drop. it had really good clay. my second pond was built with large pans, off road dump trucks, etc and it leaks. i would feel sure that with that size pond it could be treated with soil floc and you would be fine. it really helped my leak. i bet you will be fine.. it looks great!!!
_________________________
Scott Hanners

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#481990 - 10/31/17 09:21 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: scott69]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
Awe, man... I'd take ya up on that... lol. I don't know the first thing about sexing bluegills though...

I have a lake management company locally that will source FHM for me, but I was thinking about driving up to http://baitbarnfisheries.com in Bryan and picking some up myself. Anyone on here have experience with that place?

It's raining like a dog here tonight and the spillway is working as designed. Prior to the rain start, I hadn't lost a bit of water since I stopped filling, but noticed the wicking action of the clay at the waters edge. Time will tell...

/c


Originally Posted By: scott69
i would stock with fathead minnows as soon as water conditions allow. then i would find someone with a bluegill heavy pond and try to get 100 percent males. i wish you were closer to me. i would love to cull some of my bluegill. you might grow a record fish in that little pond. if you had a 150 or so in there, it could still be fun for the youngster to fish in.

about compaction- my first pond was built with an excavator and dozer only. it never leaked a drop. it had really good clay. my second pond was built with large pans, off road dump trucks, etc and it leaks. i would feel sure that with that size pond it could be treated with soil floc and you would be fine. it really helped my leak. i bet you will be fine.. it looks great!!!
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#481991 - 10/31/17 09:52 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: canyoncreek]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4200
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Lots of heavy equipment operators can speak more to this than I. I found a quick summary of PSI from tracked vehicles online. This is from a Hitachi Ex200, 20 ton excavator. The weight is probably twice your dozer but tracks are also larger. You can plug the numbers in from your dozer. In this example despite 20 ton weight the force on your boot is only 7 psi. It would be interesting to substitute the track area vs weight of your dozer. But either way, the PSI from a dozer tread has come up in other threads and the force generally per square foot is not much different than rolling it with a lawn tractor pulling a drum filled with concrete.

Here is the example I found:

Ground Pressure

Ground pressure is the pressure exerted on the ground by the tires or tracks of a motorized vehicle, and is one measure of its potential mobility,[1] especially over soft ground. Ground pressure is measured in pascals (Pa) which corresponds to the EES unit of pounds per square inch (psi). Average ground pressure can be calculated using the standard formula for average pressure: P = F/A.[2] In an idealized case, i.e. a static, uniform net force normal to level ground at Earth sea level, this is simply the object’s weight divided by contact area. The ground pressure of motorized vehicles is often compared to the ground pressure of a human foot, which can be 60 – 80 kPa while walking or as much as 13 MPa for a person in spike heels.[3]

Increasing the size of the contact area on the ground (the footprint) in relation to the weight decreases the ground pressure. Ground pressure of 14 Pa (2 psi) or less is recommended for fragile ecosystems like marshes.[4] Decreasing the ground pressure increases the flotation, allowing easier passage of the body over soft terrain. This is often observed in activities like snowshoeing.

Example: Average ground contact for a Hitachi EX 200 (20 ton)

Calculate average ground contact area (footprint):
A = length x width
A = 132.1&#8243; x 23.6&#8243; =3115.2 x 2 for two tracks = 6230.4

Calculate average ground contact pressure:
P = load / area
P = 43651.5 lbs divided over the area 6230.4&#8243; = 7 lbs per square inch
P = 7 psi


There are work around's.

Now take the square inches that comprise the grousers only on the tracks. That is going to be about 1/32 the surface area of the entire track. So 32 times more psi compaction capability (bulldozer type grousers, not excavator). Problem is you have to go over the area 32 times to get it. You can greatly increase the compaction capability of a dozer simply by making multiple trips preferably at varying angles. The other caveat is it only compacts to about 2"-3" deep so the lifts have to be shallower. I like to cris-cross. Is it efficient? no. If you have a large area to do, finding a rubber tired scraper or sheepsfoot would be a much better idea. But it is a work around, particularly on a small job. When they figure the compaction pressure of a sheepsfoot they do not figure the drum area. They figure the feet area. It takes multiple passes even with a sheepsfoot to realize its full compaction capability. By using the grouser area of a track tractor the compaction factor is greatly increased. But it takes many passes to realize it.

Another work around with a dozer on a dam, especially a small rather narrow dam, is to compact it with the dozer while going over center. If you only have the center part of the tracks touching, say half, you have doubled the compaction force. Again it is a work around. Is it efficient? No. But it is another method that an experienced operator can do to "make do".

About the only BOW's I have seen a sheepsfoot used in this area is on government jobs. Rubber tire scrapers are used more often but mostly on larger jobs. I would hazard to say thousands of ponds in my area have been built with nothing with a dozer and by and large nearly all hold water. I know of one that did not but my guess is that the area it is in was undermined (old shallow coal mine shafts).

If I put new terraces in a field and get a low spot, I have a pond. It holds water till it evaporates.

I know this forum obsesses over sheepsfoot rollers, but not all areas of the country or soil types require their use. Are they a good idea on any project? Sure. And on a significant size project would be very good insurance. But on a pond less than one acre? I would say they almost are never used in my neck of the woods. I never used one on the three new ponds I have built on my property (did us a rubber tire scraper on the dam and core, but nothing on the bowl). But we have clay pan soils with the subsoil measuring water permeability in very low hundredths of an inch per hour so have excellent material to work with. That is natural, uncompacted subsoil.

So I would not have him filling it back in and starting over just because it was only compacted with a dozer. A good operator on a small project can do quite a bit with a dozer as far as compaction. Sheepsfoot rollers are just not easily rented in all areas. Especially for small jobs. They would be hard to come by here. There are work arounds if you have especially good material to work with. If you have marginal material........... better do it right.

Edit: I added this thread to the list I keep of specialty ponds Here





Edited by snrub (10/31/17 10:18 PM)
_________________________
John

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#481996 - 10/31/17 10:37 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1552
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
The NRCS guy here told me that as far as he knows no one except highway contractors have sheepsfoot rollers in this area. None for hire or for rent.

On my first pond, the grouser bars on the dozer were nearly worn out. On the second pond, same dozer, new grousers. Second pond leaks much less, but we also compacted the last layer, even the bowl, with a large loaded Case backhoe after the dozer finished.


Edited by John Fitzgerald (10/31/17 10:45 PM)
_________________________

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#482001 - 10/31/17 11:29 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4200
Loc: SE Kansas
You can get a lot of compaction with the front tires of a front end loader tractor (either farm tractor or TLB) with the bucket fully loaded with dirt and run the front tires back and forth over the area. This is the way I compacted around my overflow pipes in all my ponds. This is another work around, but like the others I mentioned is not efficient use of time, labor or machinery if a large area needs to be compacted.

I use the loaded front tires to compact around pipes and narrow areas that need to be compacted as I can steer the tractor right into the area that needs it. You have to hand compact under the pipe, but once you get the area right underneath the pipe, a person can run the tractor tires right along the pipe, add clay, repeat till there is enough dirt over the pipe to not collapse it and compact over the top.

Edit: as a side note, a friend and I "borrowed" a county sheepsfoot roller once on the weekend when they were not around. This has been a life time ago, back when I was in high school ( a LONG time ago). I was helping with a tractor pull (back when a tractor pull consisted of a sheet of steel as a sled that people jumped on as the tractor was moving down the track. The people sat in folding chairs along the track and were the ballast added as the tractor and sled moved along - definitely not OSHA approved). We took my tractor and swiped the sheepsfoot, filled it with water, compacted the track, drained it and returned it to the road ditch where we got it.


Edited by snrub (10/31/17 11:36 PM)
_________________________
John

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#482013 - 11/01/17 08:56 AM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
djstauder Offline
Hall of Fame

Junior Member

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 994
Loc: Mississippi
Clayton, I don't recall that presentation that said catfish would burrow in dam. I've read at least a dozen times that catfish won't spawn unless you add artificial cavities to your pond which "implies" they won't dig burrows while not outright stating it.
_________________________
1 ac pond LMB, BG, RES, CC

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#482016 - 11/01/17 09:20 AM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: djstauder]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
I believe you are correct... I must have misunderstood what I thought I heard. smile Regarding channel catfish, the Texas A&M AgriLife Extension service says, "They do not naturally spawn in ponds, so structures, such a milk crates, or buckets may be added to the pond bottom to encourage spawning."

Thanks!
Clayton


Originally Posted By: djstauder
Clayton, I don't recall that presentation that said catfish would burrow in dam. I've read at least a dozen times that catfish won't spawn unless you add artificial cavities to your pond which "implies" they won't dig burrows while not outright stating it.
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#482017 - 11/01/17 10:02 AM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 2931
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
KapHn8d....looks like a great property, a great project, and great pictures.

Love the pine trees and colors of the other trees.

You are blessed.

Thanks for sharing your story.

I am particularly fond of this picture...wow!

_________________________
Fishing has never been about the fish....


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#482018 - 11/01/17 10:12 AM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: Zep]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
Thanks, Zep... ironically, most all those trees are pine trees. The yellowish-green color is from the sunset hitting the tops of the pines tall enough to catch it. It was a fortunate accident to get the contrast. We had our first big rain last night since the water went into the pond and it's definitely looking less like a pool and more like a pond this morning. It will be interesting to see how quickly (or not) the clay settles out after this rain. Thanks for the comment! I appreciate it. This is a fun process for me.



Cheers!
Clayton

Originally Posted By: Zep
KapHn8d....looks like a great property, a great project, and great pictures.

Love the pine trees and colors of the other trees.

You are blessed.

Thanks for sharing your story.

I am particularly found of this picture...wow!


Edited by KapHn8d (11/01/17 10:19 AM)
Edit Reason: added photo
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#482276 - 11/06/17 04:56 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX


I just wanted to post a quick update. I had a higher capacity circuit trenched out to behind the levee of the pond for future project options (rock feature/waterfall/etc), but mostly to fulfill the immediate need to power the Vertex unit I installed. The pond has been full without any noticeable level reduction over the last 7 days (checking it daily against a marker location at spillway). I stocked FHM/RR, BG/CNBG, and a few RES this afternoon. The winter rye I spread around the banks is starting to come in, but I'll probably end up sodding that area to provide a little more stability over the clay for walking around the banks.

It ain't much, but I'm happy to have fish now. laugh

Cheers!
Clayton
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#482279 - 11/06/17 05:22 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1572
Loc: West Michigan
your diffuser boils are great. It makes me want to take my two diffusers which are mounted at a fixed distance on one base and separate them into 2 locations for better effect... How deep are they in the video above?

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#482284 - 11/06/17 07:00 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4200
Loc: SE Kansas
Looks great Clayton.

Nice when a plan comes together. smile
_________________________
John

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#482297 - 11/06/17 11:43 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: canyoncreek]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
They are both at 7 feet depth.

Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
How deep are they in the video above?
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#482298 - 11/06/17 11:44 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: snrub]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX
Thanks, John... work in progress!

/c


Originally Posted By: snrub
Looks great Clayton.

Nice when a plan comes together. smile
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#482673 - 11/14/17 02:30 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
KapHn8d Offline


Registered: 10/02/17
Posts: 89
Loc: TX


Quick update on the mini-pond. Running the aeration 24/7 has seemingly really helped the clarity improve after the last big rain. The water level is holding very well and the minnows and sunfish I stocked are settling in nicely.

It's a great place to have coffee in the morning!

/clayton
_________________________
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.

Top
#482678 - 11/14/17 04:28 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4200
Loc: SE Kansas
That is some really clear water. Pretty.
_________________________
John

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#482679 - 11/14/17 04:34 PM Re: Tranquility Base "Mini-Pond" Project (image heavy) [Re: KapHn8d]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1572
Loc: West Michigan
My browser (IE) here at work shows the youtube link in the post above at 3:30pm as an error message. it says over the embedded video, 'flash embedded videos are no longer supported, but you can still watch this video on youtube.'

Is this specific to this forum software that the link to embed youtube is no longer supported? or is this due to my browser or maybe the custom security on our browser here at the work network?

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