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#482174 11/04/17 03:19 PM
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Long time fly fisher and new pond owner. The issue is, my pond is a former sand quarry. It is recently filled with water, less than 3 years ago, and has 2.3 acres of surface area, 65-100 feet deep, 3 steep sides, no inlet and roughly 15/gpm discharge (spring fed). The quarry is located in central Wisconsin. Go Badgers.

I have searched this forum and the world wide web over but quarries like this one seem rare? Hence, here I am.

I would like to eventually stock it with native brook and or rainbow trout, I just have no idea where to start?

Anyone have any ideas? References? Links? Anything?

Thank you

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Welcome! Nice to see another Wisconsinite on the forum! I am unfamiliar with quarry ponds but I'd say DO is a good place to start. Test for DO (dissolved oxygen) at various depths of the pond. This will tell you if trout can live in the pond and if some form of aeration is necessary. Also, are there any shallow zones? Is it all 50+ feet deep? What is the average depth? If there is enough relatively shallow water that opens up your options. Also, what existing fish are there? In a quarry pond I'd imagine they would be hard to get rid of.


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Thank you for the tip, Dragon. Currently there are no fish. It does have a shallow area where the trucks drove in, but it is extremely steep. I haven't mapped it yet and the previous owner is still completing the "reclamation plan".
I assumed aeration was necessary but I am unsure of what kind? Do I aerate from the bottom up? With what? Will I turn the pond over too much and make it too warm for brook trout?

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Not that I don't believe you, but for your own good, how are you sure there are no fish?
With water that deep, I would go with a strong aerator with multiple diffuser heads. This should not heat the water significantly but would be slightly difficult to place. Put them on the bottom but not the deepest part to leave a cold bottom. Downside is pulling up the diffuser would be difficult.

Alternatively go with surface aeration. Will be less effective but better than nothing. Plus side is it's on the surface not 60 feet down.

Don't worry about heating the water, 2 acres and almost 100 feet deep, that's a lot of water.


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I cannot definitively state there are no fish but there are no signs indicating there are fish. Nothing rises to eat off the surface and nothing hits my flies or even a bobber rig. Not to mention, the water has no odor of fish, it really is odorless.

The water has a greenish hue but I have only seen it in late summer and fall. There are frogs and turtles but I have not seen any fish.

I am considering a 3/4 horse rocking piston vacuum pump, with one, maybe two aerators at 50' since that seems to be max depth? There is electric on site, considering it's past use, and that seems to be step one this spring. I think that is the way to go? Though I am not sure how or where to place the aerators?

Thank you for helping, Dragon. Maybe when the DNR is on site to evaluate the reclamation plan, I'll see what they think?

PS: I posted the google aerial photo in the images gallery.

Last edited by Joey Quarry; 11/05/17 10:09 AM.
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What an exciting palette to work with! I'm brand new to pondmeistering, so I can't help ya much, but I am intrigued by what you find out and how your project progresses. I would suppose that any aeration is better than no aeration in ponds where there is no natural circulation. Based on what's been shared with me here on the forum, you are looking at just a smidge shy of 75 million gallons of water in your pond (325,851 gal/surface acre). With that amount of water, I don't think anything you do to it will have a "real time" response... that's also A LOT of space for fish to live and consequently not be seen.

I'm hoping you update us with what the DNR tells ya... and I if I were in your shoes, I would talk to a professional about help scoping the amount of aeration you need and where to place it. I bet there are quite a few folks on this forum that can help you in that department.

Cheers!
/c


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Can you suspend aeration from floats and tie them off so you don't have to drop them to full depth? Say only 20 feet down. That way you can pull them to shore from the tie-off when you need access.

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I don't wish to open a can of worms here, but an old quarry or pit with steep sides is a huge liability. Also, due to lack of appreciable shallows for spawning and development of a forage base, it's likely be be a non productive fishery without placement of extensive structures and lots of feeding.

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so you rent a bulldozer and push some of of that shoreline sand in and build up a shallow area...no problem! lol smile


Mat Peirce
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Matzilla #482214 11/05/17 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Matzilla
so you rent a bulldozer and push some of of that shoreline sand in and build up a shallow area...no problem! lol smile



I was thinking along the same lines except.... If feasible, I would push a big strip along that shoreline in until that area would flood with a couple 3 feet of water. Should make a good spawning area for forage for those trout.


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Matzilla #482215 11/05/17 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Matzilla
so you rent a bulldozer and push some of of that shoreline sand in and build up a shallow area...no problem! lol smile



Any sand you push in like that would migrate downhill to deeper water. To maintain a shallow area long-term with sand, nearly the whole pit would need to be filled in so the bottom sloped gradually all the way across. To me, a pit is a situation to avoid. I've fished in pits before that were stocked. Fish were stunted and lacked forage.

I am not meaning to be purposefully negative, but being realistic.

Waters with steep banks leading to great depths and little shallows tend to be unproductive. The depths below a few feet will be anoxic. Sure, it could be aerated, but that doesn't solve the underlying problem.

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I think they mean make shallow water not fill in deep water, as is dig out the shore line to make shallow water for fish.


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Thank you Kap for posting the photo, I couldn't figure out how to get it on the thread. You are all correct, to a certain extent.

1) There are civil liabilities involved, but no more than any pond. It is insured.

2) There are shallows. Those two round disks in the upper left are 1-3' deep as is the entire upper left for about 15', then it drops like a rock.

3) The water is cold, very cold, everywhere, but I measured it in September, not sure what it will be like in the heat of the summer?

4) There is almost no aquatic vegetation, which makes it awesome for swimming.

5) It is in the heart of the best brook trout fishing in the US. If I can't raise my own, I can walk down the road.

6) I am not sure of the DO levels at the bottom, but pulling up water from the 60+ feet had no odor and tasted fresh. The pond has no odor whatsoever and water I have taste tested, tastes like fresh spring water.

Last edited by Joey Quarry; 11/05/17 02:56 PM.
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check this out http://www.muscatinecountyconservation.com/area_deeplakes.php

A few of those lakes have been bucket stocked with trout and they live, and thrive. The max depth of those lakes is about 43'...while not as deep as yours they are very similar. However, most of those lakes have decent algae blooms throughout the year and also include a fair amount of aquatic plants. Most were constructed between 1935 and 55. How old is yours? All are ground water fed, very clear with excellent visibility, and mostly sand/river rock with areas of sticky bottom from plant decay.


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If you already have brook trout fishing might I suggest another stocking plan? RBT and/or brown trout would work. The rainbows taste good and bite more readily and the browns would add diversity. Problem with all these trout is forage. Add FHM and spawning structure along with fertilizing.

Another idea would be to dig out some additional shallow water, fertilize to fix the pond's infertile water, and stock cool water fish along with some RBT.

Either way, make more or better utilize the shallow water and fertilize to increase growth rates.


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I wouldn't give up on the brook trout! IMO, there is no better tasting trout and no pretty fish than a Brook! There may be great brookies around you, but in your OWN water you could probably grow bigger. Even if not, they will still be your own. It will not be a one or two year thing, but it CAN be done. I plan on growing monster brookies as well. I have been dealing with a less than ideal situation for some time, but have been making lots of progress every single year. Don't let people saying this or that isn't perfect discourage you!!!

One excellent advantage you have is the depth. Just think how much water one diffuser disc will move when placed at 50' deep! I would guess you can possibly get by with much "less" of a system because each disc would move so much water!

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 11/05/17 06:24 PM.

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Thank you for the link, Matzilla, that is exactly the resources I am looking for!

Dragon, I sincerely appreciate all your help. Hopefully one day, you can fish for brookies with me, maybe even rainbows but I have an affinity for brookies.

No worries, Buffet Jr., I realize what opinions are. I have fished many a good quarry and a simple internet search definitively shows what a good fishery they can be. There is wheat and chaff in every forum.

My issue is the CFM's at 80+ feet, water movement and the watts to create it. I don't want a 200 dollar energy bill to keep some brookies alive.

There is always the outlet. Currently it just pours over a low spot. I am curious if regulating that might create better water quality and if changing it is even legal?

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Originally Posted By: Joey Quarry
....
2) There are shallows. Those two round disks in the upper left are 1-3' deep as is the entire upper left for about 15'.....


Awesome! Looks like you have forage spawning areas covered! Any plan to place some brush piles, etc. in those areas for cover?

Looks like Matzilla gave you some good links for other deep BOWs. Do they need aeration?


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Originally Posted By: Joey Quarry

My issue is the CFM's at 80+ feet, water movement and the watts to create it. I don't want a 200 dollar energy bill to keep some brookies alive.


IIRC it only takes .5 CFM to operate a vertex disc, but 1 CFM is better. Put a quad out in 50' and it shouldn't be too hard to find a pump that makes 25 psi and 3 or 4 CFM. I have a thread going where Bill Cody talks about how much easier it is to mix colder water and how us trout guys do not have to worry about super chilling. Basically each disc is MUCH more effective in Winter so it does not require near as much run time to keep DO levels up.

EDIT:

Here is the link
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=478466#Post478466

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 11/05/17 08:05 PM.

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I agree, and in addition, IMO you don't want to have a compressor that is pushing its capability to produce 4 CFM at 25 to 30 psig. That can result in short pump life and a lot of maintenance. My advice is do your homework. Make sure you get an appropriately designed/sized compressor for the depth and CFM you will need. The Pond Boss resource guide can hook you up with aeration pros that can make sure you have what you need to minimize the future headaches.

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/05/17 08:37 PM.

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If you love brookies, by all means have a brook trout only pond. My only point in suggesting that was it would be something different than you have in your area. I'll butt out now as this is getting past my knowledge.


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Also to get circulation to lower depths does not require the disk to be down deep either, relaxing the PSI requirement. If you are not adverse to putting a disk into a pipe or cylinder, you can put the inlet for water down much deeper than the disk, and the outlet several feet above the disk placement so that the air bubbles rising can pull water up through the pipe. You may be able to set something right on the bottom, though I cannot imagine what would be practical at that depth.

This is often done with under-gravel filters in aquariums. The air just has to be placed somewhere in the tube to get water flowing, not all the way at the bottom.

ASCII Art:
Code:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Water surface
   O o o O o
    o o 0
     oOo
   |  O |
   | o  |
   |  O |
   | oo |
   |  0 |
   |  o |
   | __ |  < ---- Disk
   |    |
   |    |
   |    |
   |    |
   |    |
   |    |
  /      \   
 /        \   <- Some means of stabilizing, holes for water to come in.
/__________\  <- Bottom.


*sigh* Forum removes spaces, sorry. I give up.

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There is no aeration in the lakes above but like I mentioned most have a diverse amount of vegitation providing o2 - FA, american pond weed, cabbage and curly leaf. The larger bodies of water have a great deal of wave action too.

Have you taken a boat onto the pond? I bet you have some "deep water" plants, especially in the late spring, that aren't visible from shore.


Mat Peirce
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