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#481849 10/30/17 09:38 AM
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we are building a 4 acre pond in southwest Iowa, max depth of 18ft, it will be done here in a few days. I plan on LMB, BG, CC, and would also like to add YP for some diversity. Any recommendations on how I should go about stocking. This is my first pond.

Last edited by Hunter3553; 10/30/17 09:38 AM.
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Hunter, there are several great pondmeisters from IA on the forum and they can chime in. My advice, (advice that was hammered home to me when I was in your same situation by the PB team here and served me VERY WELL) is that you MUST NOT put anything in your pond except forage until the end of next year. Your weather in SW IA might be a bit more mild and your 'growing season' or number of spawns might be more than us in the north, but still, you must not lose this chance to build a diverse forage base. You only have one chance, you have to use restraint and think about your future goals.

There are many good threads on how to plan forage depending on your goals. For example a trophy CC pond is very different from a trophy LMB pond. In fact many would say that putting both CC and LMB in a pond could be a bad recipe. But in a 4 acre pond the stocking ratios and goals are very different than most of us who have smaller ponds.

Since your pond is so large and deep, it might even take you 2 full growing seasons to properly prepare your forage base. Although it seems like a punishment to wait, you will have so much fun trying to find different forage species, watching them grow and become visible in various places in your pond and then when they are big enough and in numbers that will survive predation, then you can add your apex predator.

You must have thought about pond structure or fish 'lanes' when building the pond? Do you have pictures? Share your goals, what type of fishing, what do you hope to use the pond for?

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Welcome to the forum.

I'll let the guys up north closer to your area give stocking advice.

I'm further south and when I stocked I stocked the forage in March and the LMB and CC in the fall. And I ended up with too much forage as it appears my BG are eating all my LMB eggs and fry so I am now BG heavy and LMB light (little or no recruitment of LMB fingerlings).

I'm not telling you this to suggest any particular timing for you, but to show you that your location makes a difference on how it should be done to be successful (the way I did it was actually very common for my area. For some reason my LMB have just not done their job considering reproduction).

So it is important to get information for your area. Stocking in south Texas might be considerably different than North Dakota.

But at any rate, welcome to the forum and we have a number of experts from your area so you will get some good advice.


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I don't have any pictures right now, but yes structure has been considered we have several rock piles, there are standing trees in the upper shallow end of the pond, and I'm thinking of putting in some "Honey Hole" trees as well in the deeper section. We just want a nice self sustaining pond that people can catch decent fish in. Not looking to grow any state records just provide fun quality fishing.

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I would stock FHM and any other forage fish in Spring and then wait at least until fall 2018 preferably fall 2019 to stock BG/LMB/CC.

When you say self sustaining do you mean you don't want to feed, supplemental stock or both? Nothing wrong with not feeding I'm not either just make sure forage base is set up. CC can spawn just build them structure. If you let them spawn you won't have to keep stocking them but overpopulation could be an issue to consider.


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Yeah not wanting to feed them, supplemental stocking is not an issue I planned on doing that. CC are of least importance to me but do have some friends that like to fish for them so thought we'd stock some of them as well but not a must if it will be detrimental to the other species. Would you not include perch? We love eating perch and though if they'd do okay they'd be fun to have in the pond.

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I share your love for perch but they have extreme difficulty existing with LMB. They are just too fusiform to escape LMB predation until they are very large. If you want perch, consider a cool water stocking plan. SMB/WE/YP


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I'd love to do something like that, just wasn't real sure how well that would work in a southern Iowa "hill" pond.

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Actually unless you want TROPHY bluegill or bass you will have a lot more flexibility without the bluegill, northern or hybrid. The bluegill are prolific spawners and are needed mainly to keep up with the prolific bass appetite and reproduction rates.

So if you did a less fecund 'panfish' say pumpkinseed, RES, or LES you then have more flexibility with your predator. you could use pike, pickerel, SMB, walleye and achieve a different balance.

YP would be a great option and they can go in with the forage if you have enough. This will give them time to grow to say 6" plus where they usually can escape predation by the apex predator (unless that is CC)

A few CC won't be a problem in 4 acres but beware of making it to easy for them to populate.

Those with northern ponds and CC can chime in.

Remind me is tilapia off limits? I recall other IA posters saying it was.

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I am looking to do what Hunter wants to do, as in adding YP to a LMB/BG/CC pond. I only hope to get away with it because I have TONS of various forage and ample covert (maybe too much). I never thought of the CC eating a lot of the YP but I assume they could if you let them grow that big. I'd say, to keep CC in harmony with YP all that needs to be done is harvest the CC when they get 16-20 inches or before they can eat YP above the size of 6 inches.

Considering the depth of the pond, I think a coolwater stocking plan would be fine. Maybe replace the WE with CC and add in PS/RES.
LMB and BG are very "needy" fish that usually can't exist without each other or they will overpopulate and stunt. Staying away from them opens you up to different fish species.

Last edited by ThePondDragon; 10/30/17 01:15 PM.

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Hunter, Ponddragon, YP are easy to source, easy to stock in larger sizes (not that expensive) and usually pellet trained. This gives tons of options for keeping them going even in a predator heavy pond.

I would say by all means try it and report back to us how they do. I find YP to be very scrappy fish, surprisingly they are OK with warmer waters and a smaller pond, they are one of the best fish to eat, easy to keep pellet trained even with occasional hand feeding from the bank. They bite on many different baits and lures and fight hard. Kids love to see their colors.

They also have high reproduction rates if you are worried about predation.

I wouldn't see a reason not to try it even in a LMB/CC pond.

There are many small lakes around SW MI that are 9-10 feet at the deepest, eutrophic, and full of stunted BG and LMB. I just wonder if the DNR would stock YP if that would help. It would give anglers a bonus species, and with their reproduction rate maybe the LMB would have another option to fill their mouths! They seem very tough even in our hot humid season in shallow ponds and lakes (quite the opposite for their reputation of only doing well in deep dark lakes similar to where Walleye inhabit) and are a great option for icefishing too.

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canyon you nailed one of my reason for wanting perch as well, ice fishing. I think we'll give it a shot, I just need to research more on how to time the stockings to ensure it works the best.

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Can you get pellet trained YP close to your house? Will they sell you a mix of sizes? I would say if you could get a few in the 6-8" range and especially if you could get them now when females are loaded with eggs you would only need a small stocking population up front. IF you could get some gravid females say 20-25 in the 6-8" range, then maybe 100 in the 3-6 range along with your forage order this fall you would be set. As long as no predators went in till next fall the YP would make millions of babies come spring and if water quality and temps are good for successful hatching of eggs you will have millions of fry to grow out all of next year.

of course the fry do better with the backbone of the micronutrients (think green water, and all the little critters that make up the food chain) in place. That sometimes isn't something you can count in on a new pond since new ponds tend to be muddy for a while from the clay. This slows down the building of the food chain till the water clears.

Be sure to try to get several types of shiners (there are many kinds besides golden shiners but GSH will do well as are easy to source from various bait dealers or fish farms), FHM, crayfish, ghost shrimp, gammarus species (scuds) etc.

I have found it very rewarding to have a forage only pond with YP and only a few RES. The kids have fun hand feeding the YP and although the FHM only lasted a season and the the GSH population strugged for a bit to have successful recruiting, now in year 3 we finally are seeing minnow clouds and surface feeding that is just starting to go crazy.

I thought waiting this long would be too hard but now we finally are in a position to plan for the apex predator. The YP and GSH seem to coexist well and I'm sure the YP are helping control the tiny RES progeny as well as we don't seem to have much RES recruitment.

Others have considered bowfin as a predator, you may want to see what you can source locally in ponds/rivers for forage and predators. I imagine you could probably source lots of chubs and suckers?

Research Lake Chubsucker (LCS) as some of us here have used that as an alternate forage as well. If your pond can maintain clear water with vegetation it would be a good place to see if you can establish the LCS.


Last edited by canyoncreek; 10/30/17 02:31 PM.
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I've heard different sources claim different outcomes from adding YP to a LMB/BG pond. Some say the LMB will eat all the YP yoy and thus stop recruitment. Some say the YP will eat all the LMB yoy and stunt in the absence of a predator. Some say they coexist just fine.
I think all I can do is stock them and find out what they will do. If you are wondering my pond is average 6 ft deep with heavy chara cover and is very fertile. Rest is in signature.


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YP will "thrive" better in a 4 ac pond with LMB than a smaller less than 1 ac pond due to more habitat availability in the larger pond. Thrive means produce harvestable adults and successfully & regularly recruit new individuals into the community.

An initial pond stocking of YP with fingerling LMB can result for several years (5-7) to produce a viable YP fishery. After the first 7 years is the real test of a thriving YP population co-existing with LMB. The degree of YP thriving and co-existing with LMB is dependent on type and amount of habitat in the pond.

If you are interested in measuring or numerically evaluating the success of YP in your pond with LMB, then keep some accurate catch records. Record how many YP you catch compared to BG and other panfish. The percentage catch of YP is your annual measurement of YP success. In keeping records it is also important to note the sizes of YP you are catching. If after 5 to 7 years you are catching few if any 5"-7" YP then they are not thriving in your pond. There needs to be good numbers of 5"-7" YP to take the place of the 8"-12" YP that are harvested or die of old age. Otherwise the LMB are overeating the young YP. If after 8-10 years you are still regularly catching YP as in years 3-5 then YP are a success in your LMB based pond.

I am anxious and very interested in how YP are performing in your 4 acre LMB pond after 5 to 7 years. Keep good catch records to prove your results and return to help educate all of us about YP with LMB. Good luck with your new pond.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/30/17 08:00 PM.

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How would it change things if we went with SMB as our apex with everything else remaining the same, minus CC. Sorry for the questions I just really have no idea. I'm trying to read as much as possible one here. Lots of great info.

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One danger in delayed stocking is if there is any possibility for non target species getting in the pond, by delaying stocking of target species the trash fish will get established and eat the target fish when they are introduced.

If you have any ponds upstream or a nearby stream the pond overflows into, the possibility exists. Or contaminated stocking fish.

Just something to be aware of. Around here, if stocking is delayed for a while and GSF get in the pond and get established (they do so quickly), they have large enough mouths to wipe out the fingerlings stocked. Then a year later the owner is disappointed because all he can catch is GSF.

Just be aware of the possibility and take precautions if your pond is such that it could happen.

Been more than one fisery stocking ruined by trash fish entering the pond before the stocked fish.

Last edited by snrub; 10/31/17 09:12 AM.

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Nope that will not be an issue with this pond. Thank you for the advice though.

Last edited by Hunter3553; 10/31/17 09:12 AM.
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I concur with Bill Cody.

Some random thoughts:

If you want to stock LMB, then you have to stock BG to provide enough food for the LMB. Nate Herman and I shocked a 10 ac pond where there were LMB, Crappie some YP, Redear Sunfish with BG making up 1% of the panfish population that was shocked up. The LMB were way under weight, even one 5 pounder that we shocked - it should have weighed in the 7 pound range. The fishery is turning around with heavy LMB harvest and stocking of 10,000 BG along with adding lots of cover.

If you stock CC with the LMB, and don't harvest the CC out after 3 years they will really start eating the forage fish that the LMB need. You will never be able to harvest all the CC that you stock and they will become eating machines that can eat 8"+ BG.

When the BG numbers drop the LMB will start looking for other species of fish to eat that are out of their usual habitat, i.e. YP.

You can go with:
LMB, BG, RES, YP, Golden Shiners & Fatheads
or
RES, YP, SMB, Golden Shiners & Fatheads

With either plan, you can add 25-50 per acre 6"-8" HSB to the mix year 2 or 3.

Remember that harvesting the fish is an integral part of managing the pond, and that means harvesting the predators. Try not to harvest the stocked fish for the first 3-4 years but harvest their offspring. If you do stock HSB, those can be harvested once they become eating size, as they will not reproduce in the pond.

I also agree on stocking the correct numbers and stocking the predators no longer than 12 months after the forage base is stocked, or some other predator might find it's way in.


I am currently experimenting in my personal pond with stocking HSB on top of a SMB population with BG in the pond to see if they can control their numbers. My pond experiences 3 feet to up to 5 feet of draw down annually or semi-annually so that might contribute to more successful predation though.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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