Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose 3 ponds, missouri stocking options

Ok. I suppose starting with a water quality test kit, and some pics of existing fish will help. I will try and do that this weekend.

Any issues with going the rotenone route? Is timing important? Will it give you a garaunteed blank slate at correct dosage and timing? Are there human health risks consuming future fish produced in the pond.

You really need an expert to weigh in on this thread. See if you can get Bill Cody, Rainman, or Esshup's attention.

Rainman is based in the STL area and is a great guy to talk to over the phone, too.

Read through this question & answer list about rotenone use from the Oregon Fisheries & wildlife department. If you have more questions bring them back here and we will try to get you good reliable answers.
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/local_fisheries/diamond_lake/FAQs.asp

great Bill, Thank you. It seems to me that relatively soon would be good timing for a rotenone treatment. My reasoning is this, let me know if you think it is sound reasoning.
-Rotenone is not as effective on fish eggs.
-I would assume that right now bluegill and sunfish spawns are not taking place.
-meaning no rotenone resistant fish eggs are sitting waiting to weather the rotenone storm and hatch
-meaning if rotenone was applied right now, it would kill all existing fish, leaving a blank slate and no hidden surviving fish eggs to pop up as a problem.

What kind of cost am I looking at to treat each pond?

Would pumping them down make a difference?

How about pumping them all down, then treating with a much decreased amount of rotenone in the remaining puddle that could not be pumped?

As far as I know rotenone does not kill fish eggs. September in Missouri should be the last spawning of sunfishes and most all pond type fish. Few fish spawn in fall at less than 62F.
Most economical way to do rotenone is draw down (pumping) the water of the pond to allow for less chemical needed. Drawn down also dewaters muskrat and rodent holes/dens to force fish from shoreline cavity hiding places where rotenone may not achieve adequate penetration or concentrations. If the ponds are not aerated or mechanically mixed, drawdown helps insure bottom water penetration of the rotenone into the deep areas (now only 3-6ft deep) which will not happen well when the pond is thermally stratified.

The smaller the water volume to be treated the less the cost and better the results. Some fish species require a higher dose to be killed. Many fish can be killed with 1gallon per 1 million gal of water while bullheads, carp, gar, GSF and a few others require 3 gal/million gallon. Turbid water also requires a higher dose of rotenone.

Cost will largely be determined by labor cost (time) and chemical. Chemical wholesale is around $100/gal +-$20. Expect upto double for retail and then labor or applicator profit.

Seems to me it might be better to pump it down to a puddle and treat with hydrated lime.

If you pump it down you can see what was in the pond before you kill them all, that's an advantage in my books as long as it is cheap enough to be feasible vs just rotenoneing it.

I don't trust hydrated lime as a fish eradication method. It can work if done exactly correctly. With hydrated lime how long does it take for the water pH to return to conditions where fish will live in it again?

I've found the ph level drops in a few days, up to a week. But I'm also always refilling the pond with well so my waiting period is much shorter as I'm diluting the lime. Easiest to drain as much as possible with siphon so volume is much lower and easier to nuke with lime. I'd even go so far as to seine remaining pools to ensure you have everything. I've limed fisheries 4 times now, learned something new every application. So far so good, but have to be careful and detail oriented.

Hey Shawn:

Lots of good info here - feel free to call me sometime, can cover a lot of ground on a call. I manage many cold water species fisheries and have a trophy sunfish fishery also - which is doing well. I've made a lot of mistakes along the way can help save you a ton of time and money. Happy to help.

@ TJ, I didn't mean to play favorites, sorry

@shawn, you could get a kit but Texas A&M will process your sample for $20 and give you way more info.

http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/files/waterweb1.pdf

I wish the Univ of Mo would do this. I'm in Columbia all the time. It would be nice to drop off a sample.

I sent some to MU but they don't do aquaculture-specific tests so the report was pretty unhelpful.

I'd suggest Hydrated liming over rotenone every time for being sure all is killed. Less expensive and done properly, much better results, IMO.

Shawn, if you still want to go with SMB, HSB, YP, RES and WE, you ill want to add golden shiners, fathead and bluntnose minnows as forage...some spotfin shiners would be nice as well. Avoid BG or HBG, at least until you get good smallie growth (2+ pounds). The cool water species pond will need the proper spawning structures for the SMB and YP.....WE will not spawn, nor will HSB....RES will find places.

I'd make the 1/2 acre pond the BG pond, feeding Optimal pellets, stocked with 150 Pure Northern BG, 125 LMB and 50 RES with the same forage species, though FHM will disappear fast.

The 1/4 acre pond could be for forage, or for other species not wanted in your goal oriented ponds.