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At the PB Conference, Dr Wes Neal briefly alluded to drawdowns as a tool to enhance bass fisheries, a concept I'd never really thought about before.

I did some research & found there is considerable evidence that lowering water levels can indeed help bass gain weight. When preyfish can no longer hide in shallow cover, predators tend to feast. Several major lakes in Florida have experienced great fishing during and after drawdowns.

There's a lot to it, though. What time of year is best? How long? How much should water levels be lowered? Will it work only when the lake is in balance between bass and preyfish? What about if bass numbers are higher than they should be?

Of course, drawdowns also allow us to get rid of invasive weeds (at least for a while), clear out muck, put in structure, etc. However, if it took you five years to fill your lake, I suspect this might not be a good idea!

Any thoughts?


Last edited by anthropic; 10/15/17 06:39 PM.

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A lot of information has been around quite awhile about use and benefits of drawdowns for lake management. The technique also works for ponds. A lot of ponds are not built for easy use of drawdowns. The method tends to work best for water bodies with extensive amounts shallow, weedy water.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/15/17 06:58 PM.

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The documentation on it looks good. However, it assumes that the drawdown will be followed by plentiful rains. To me, that seems risky and I would never do it.


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In drier climates, I feel like the droughts naturally achieve this. It may not happen on a yearly basis but if rainfall is plentiful I can see the benefit.

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jludwig makes a very good point. Leaky ponds, water table ponds, and ponds in area with low rainfall have periodic natural drawdowns. Manual drawdowns are for those with control of water level and good spring time water sources.


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Originally Posted By: jludwig
In drier climates, I feel like the droughts naturally achieve this. It may not happen on a yearly basis but if rainfall is plentiful I can see the benefit.


My ponds naturally achieve this every fall, as do a bunch of other ponds around here. The pond weeds are high up on the banks, and wither away.

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I do this, but kind of in reverse. Every fall I raise the water level in the HBG pond about a foot. The newly flooded vegetation provides a refuge, then in the spring I lower it back down. For that first week after lowering, the shallows practically explode as the cover is removed and the buffet begins.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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Is there any general rule of thumb as to how far down you draw the water? One foot? Five feet? Based on total or average depth of BOW? A percent of that depth? We are toying with this concept. We were thinking of doing it in an attempt to freeze/kill some invasive/problem weeds along the shoreline in shallow water each winter. Thanks. BM61.

Last edited by bassmaster61; 10/16/17 10:06 AM.

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Do you worry that raising the water level for the Winter might cause an O2 drop due to microbial action during plant decay? I am raising my second pond in stages each spring to avoid this potential problem.

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Originally Posted By: RAH
Do you worry that raising the water level for the Winter might cause an O2 drop due to microbial action during plant decay? I am raising my second pond in stages each spring to avoid this potential problem.


No, never had any issues. But remember, my management strategy for the HBG pond is one of "the only good pond plant, is a dead pond plant". Vegetation is a no-no where trophy BG are concerned In My opinion. And, I run the aerator when ice/ snow conditions warrant. I'm actually considering stopping aeration altogether, but that's another story.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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That makes sense since we manage the edges differently.

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sprkplug.....please elaborate on your statement that you are "actually considering stopping aeration altogether".

I ask because we are considering adding aeration for the first time this coming spring. I have educated myself but always looking for real world experience/opinions.....good or bad.

thanks. BM61.


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Quote:
Is there any general rule of thumb as to how far down you draw the water? One foot? Five feet? Based on total or average depth of BOW? A percent of that depth? We are toying with this concept. We were thinking of doing it in an attempt to freeze/kill some invasive/problem weeds along the shoreline in shallow water each winter.


When you start looking for information about drawdowns, there are some basic concepts. Note some of the sources ALSO list the disadvantages of drawdowns; do your homework on those items. Below are some items that I found from several sources. Many of the sources repeat the basic concepts.

Depending on the size of the pond and the availability of deep water, the pond should be dropped to expose 30 to 40 percent of the pond bottom. If ponds lack extensive deep water, they should be dropped less to prevent catastrophic fish loss. But the drawdown should expose as much pond bottom as possible, restricting water to deeper sections only.
Drawdown encourages population control when forage fishes are overabundant. Lowering the water congregates the forage, and large predator fishes, preventing forage fishes from having protection in shallow water. The larger prey fishes, such as largemouth bass and catfish, will reduce the population of the smaller fishes over the winter, also allowing bigger fish to put on excess weight.
If ponds are experiencing noxious weed problems in the shallower sections, winter drawdown will directly affect these weed banks in a negative fashion. Often, weeds around the pond margins and in shallow areas become problems in the summer, growing in huge mats. While some weeds are beneficial, noxious aquatic weeds will get out of control and must be controlled. Ponds become sinks for nutrient runoff in agriculture settings, and the shallow water allows for full sunlight penetration, allowing unrestricted growth. Drawdown will expose these weed banks to air-drying and freezing temperatures, often killing many of these problem weeds. While drawdown will not completely-eradicate weed problems, winter drawdown will help combat noxious aquatic weeds in shallow areas.

https://efotg.sc.egov.usda.gov/references/public/MS/ms-ecs-399-02.pdf

http://www.solitudelakemanagement.com/blog/winter-drawdown-reducing-nuisance-aquatic-weeds
An effective method, that is not new to lake management, is winter drawdown. This technique drops the water level to expose the dormant plants in the sediment to sub-freezing temperatures during winter months decreasing their survival. Additionally, “a drawdown is a prime opportunity to conduct a pre-emergent herbicide application for aquatic weed control,” says Sarah Miller, Aquatics Specialist at SePRO Corporation. “During this time, low rates can be strategically applied to the exposed littoral zone and prevent nuisance weeds from ever having a chance to establish or regrow after filling. This proactive approach provides a proven management option for sites with challenges such as high flow and irrigation use.” These products may not be an option during the summer, because of irrigation restrictions, but with no irrigation required in the winter, these products will be long gone before irrigation resumes in the spring.

https://www3.nd.edu/~aseriann/Lake_Drawdown.pdf
Fall/winter drawdowns can be beneficial in that some desiccation takes place as the waterbody is dewatering, but thorough freezing of the plants and the lake sediments is the key.Freezing of theplants damages the structure and integrity of the vegetative material. Freezing of the lake sediments will impact rooting systems and rhizomes, both by freeze damage, scouring, and
subsequent uplifting of the rooting systems.Scouring action of ice moving over the exposed lake bed will force tubers and rooting systems from the substrate. When the water level is again raised, these anchoring plant structures will often float downstream and discharge through the lake basin, or they can be hand removed as they float around.

A study oflake drawdown conducted by Dennis Cooke 1980 found that various aquatic plants responded differently to drawdown. Summary of Winter Drawdown Study Findings:

Decrease in Abundance - Watershield (Brasenia), Pondweed (Potamogeton), Yellow water lily, (Nuphar), White water lily (Nymphea), Spike rush (Eleocharis), Water milfoil (Myriophyllum spp), Pickerelweed (Pontedaria)

Increase in Abundance - Bulrush (Scirpus), Arrowhead (Sagittaria), 3way sedge (Dulichium)

No Change - Bladderwort (Utricularia), Tape grass (Vallisneria), Bur reed (Sparganium

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/17/17 09:30 AM.

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Thanks for the info, Bill! From your comments, I gather that drawdowns are NOT a good idea if LMB are overabundant and BG are underabundant.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Sparkplg Please share some of your ideas about not using aeration for your HBG pond. Aeration does have pros and cons.

Most of the comments in my above post are from things I found online and in a few of my books.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/17/17 02:44 PM.

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I had hoped a drawdown of an American Lotus choked pond would freeze-kill the weeds but the experts on the vegetation subforum said otherwise.

I did however put in a 2" drain under the new dam I built this summer. The water drawn off the bottom is quite smelly!


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That 'bottom' water must off-gas some nasty stuff when it gets 'out!'


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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody


A study oflake drawdown conducted by Dennis Cooke 1980 found that various aquatic plants responded differently to drawdown. Summary of Winter Drawdown Study Findings:

Decrease in Abundance - Watershield (Brasenia), Pondweed (Potamogeton), Yellow water lily, (Nuphar), White water lily (Nymphea), Spike rush (Eleocharis), Water milfoil (Myriophyllum spp), Pickerelweed (Pontedaria)

Increase in Abundance - Bulrush (Scirpus), Arrowhead (Sagittaria), 3way sedge (Dulichium)

No Change - Bladderwort (Utricularia), Tape grass (Vallisneria), Bur reed (Sparganium


Bill, how do drawdowns affect chara? I have it in my pond & so far seems a net benefit -- much better YOY survival rates -- but need to keep a close eye on it as water tends to be pretty clear.


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Sorry guys, I'm not on the forum much these days and I missed this. There are a few reasons I intend to stop aerating, not the least of which is the cost and the noise. I'm tired of both. But mostly as an experiment. I've been on the forum for a lot of years now, and I'm very familiar with "it depends". I've said it myself, and still very much believe in it.

But I always figured there were exceptions, cornerstones where it didn't depend....absolute, probably basic fundamentals, that were constants. I no longer believe that. I now believe it depends all the time, everytime. No two bow are alike enough for me to say any more than if you fall in, you will get wet.

40+years of leaves hasn't filled in my ponds appreciably, the FC haven't decimated my fish population, overstocked LMB have not taken over the pond, ( they're eating each other), and HBG havent reverted back to GSF.

Out of seven ponds, only one is aerated. After four decades, the only fish kill I've seen was confined to one pond, and one species, HSB. My system is homemade, as are many here. How many times do we read of such systems getting praise, for preventing a fishkill? How would one really know? You need two identical ponds, with the only difference being one is aerated and one not, before you could credit aeration with saving your fish. Ponds are all different, with a multitude of variables occuring, that to me prohibit long distance diagnosis and advice.

So, l'm going to unplug my pond and see what happens. Im betting it will continue on as usual.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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After being here 3 yrs compared to yours then not much experience here but with what little I know I would say do it now as winter approaches. I have been thinking of cutting mine back to daylight only except I would like get through this dense bloom first.


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If the only advantage to aeration is to break up the eutrophic layer to provide access to more forage and critters on the bottom that the fish can get at, it would be worth it IMHO. If it keeps the muck digesting than it would otherwise, also worth it.

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You may be correct, squid. But right now I'm not convinced that a 12-14' deep pond has much of a eutrophic layer. My fish seem to be able to utilize the whole water column, without aeration.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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There is mention of a eutrophic layer. Technically, the layer you are referring to is a warm water layer. If the warm layer is eutrophic the whole pond is eutrophic not just the top layer.

liquidsquid says "...break up the eutrophic layer to provide access to more forage and critters on the bottom that the fish can get at".

Technically if the bottom or deep layer is anoxic (without DO) there are no forage nor critters in that zone and on the bottom muck due to no DO for them to live (respire - breathe); only life forms there are anaerobic bacteria: very slow 'dirty' decomposers and hydrogen sulfide (H2S) & methane gas producers. Aerating the anoxic layer puts DO there so beneficial oxygen breathers (forage) can live there and do what they do.

Now for some more biology. Sprkplug says " it depends" and he is correct for every BOW (body of water) is different and sometimes vastly different. Aeration is basically designed to put dissolved oxygen (DO) in deep water and on the bottom where there usually is no DO.

I promoted this before in another post, but will repeat it again. If your pond water is clear to where sunlight can penetrate "deep" into the pond, this allows plants, mostly phytoplankton, to produce oxygen in the deep water regardless if there is a warm layer top layer - thermal stratification. Thus this oxygenated deep water needs no aeration or mixing because it has life providing DO present.

The water science rule that determines how deep DO is naturally produced in your pond is most often and normally to a depth of 2 times the Secchi disk depth. But this is not a hard and fast rule. Even this "it depends", sometimes the DO producing depth can be 3 times the Secchi disk depth if specific conditions allow more light penetration. The amount of light needed for normal phytoplankton photosynthesis and DO production is the depth where 1% of the surface sunlight peneterates.

So if your pond has water secchi disk clarity of 4 feet, DO can be produced down to 8 to 12 feet 'depending' on conditions. However if there is a rapid change in water clarity i.e. bloom or sediment turbidity (secchi depth 1-2ft) for a few weeks the production of DO can be drastically reduced to maximum depths of 3 to 7 ft and below that anoxic conditions can develop. Wave action affects natural mixing or circulation depth. The degree or thickness of a creation of the anoxic layer is dependent on various factors. Thus in ponds, likely most ponds, the water clarity is around 2ft to 3ft. So to reliably have DO at the bottom in water 7 feet and deeper mechanical mixing via aeration is beneficial.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/30/17 07:25 PM.

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Thanks Bill!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Thanks Bill!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Thanks Bill!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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i too have considered the drawdown as a method to rid some plants. do any of you all plant any type winter grass to keep down erosion? i wonder if it will grow on the weedy stuff after the weeds are dry for a while?
also how important will it be to spray the weeds? i think we will have warm enough temps here for the algaecide/herbicide to work.

i may wait until our thanksgiving family get together is over. i hate for everyone to see the ugly old pond bottom.


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