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#4800 10/03/04 11:20 PM
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We are in desperate need of a second opinion on our dam. We have a 3 1/2 acre pond which average is 20-25 ft deep that is now 2 years old. We suspect that there is a leak in the drainage pipe underneath the dam. With in 3 weeks of completion we had a freekish storm that filled this pond up completely within 16 hours and was actually pouring out the spillway. We really didnt expect it to hold, and neither did the contractor, the dam just didnt have time to settle at all. But it did and it has up till now given us no trouble. The problem that we suspect is that there is a hole in the drain pipe under the dam. When we got the massive rain, we think that the water pressure in the pipe forced water through the hole and has eaten away at the dirt around that hole. As the water drained out of the pipe it drew the dirt back through the hole and deposited dirt outside pipe on the other side of the dam. We know this because of the color of the dirt is the same as the dirt that was used to construct the dam. Over the past 2 years we have had 1 or 2 of these massive rain storms. All this summer our pond has been down about 3-4 feet. About a month ago we had Hurricane Jean come through and dump alot of rain that filled the pond up level again. Then 3 or 4 days later we disovered a large sunken in crater about 4 ft diameter right below water level above the drainage pipe. Evadently, the water pressure from above caused this cave in. There is a constant stream of air bubbles comming up from this crater. We have had many clues to lead us to this conclusion, but at this point its still speculation. We have contacted the contractor and have not had much progress. We would like another contractor to come and give us a second opinion, but I cannot seem to locate one that would be suitable. In the mean time, the crater is continuing to enlarge, and dirt at water line 5-8 feet on either side of the crater is cracking and dropping rather fast. Every day we see more deterioration. We are very concerned that this dam is going to give way before we can get anyone out to look at it. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Is this sink hole on the dam right above the stand pipe? if it is that bad....you might have to opt for filling the pipe with concreate and going to a syphoning system

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The sink hole is on the water side of the dam and starts just where the water and the dam meet, right at the water line. The the sink hole is right above the drain that goes through the dam. We have contacted the NRCS and they are going to fax me a list of contractors, but he says its against the law for him to recommend one of them. The orginal contractor did come again today and did suggest that if we thought that the drain had a hole/broke weld in it to concrete it, but that is not going to fix it. The damage has already been done and will need to be corrected now. And he finally did admit that he no longer builds ponds (thank goodness for anyone else) and he does not have the money to correct this problem himself. But if we could pay for it then he would do the work. Before we started this we asked for a contract. He had the contract drew up and we agreed that if there were any water problems in the 2 mountains that surround this pond, meaning that water seeped into and/or around them and out of the pond, that would be our responsibilty, but if the problem was with the dam or with the core it would be his. He is trying anything and everything to squrim his way out of fixing this problem. I was just hoping anyone could recommend someone that was truly qualified look at this for us. We are located about 40 miles north of Auburn, in East Central Alabama. Thanks for you replies.

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Sounds like the pipe and appurtances were not compacted properly with fill material. By appurtances, I mean anti-seep collars, pipe bands, etc. I doubt the pipe has a hole in it unless poor materials were used or pipe was damaged during installation. You probably have a piping problem along side the pipe. Improper tamping and no anti-seep collars generally the culprit! Either way, I'm sorry to say you may have to excavate the tube out and replace it properly. Anything other than clear water exiting the backside of a dam is trouble in the making. Good Luck!

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That thought had crossed our minds too. The contractor used old natural gas lines for the drain. He said when removing these gas lines, they will pump oxygen into the line to remove the gas and somewhere they will burn a small hole in the pipe to let the air escape. He said it was possible that we got a piece that had one of those holes in it. He as reasured us that the welding would not have broke. So that is where we got the idea that maybe that was the reason for this occurance. Mind you the contractor has less of a clue than us. We think that if this pond had filled slowly as we all expected it to, and had the time it needed to settle and compact properly, we more that likely would not even had this problem. We believe that this has been building for some time and just now has surfaced. It was sure a freekish weather occurance for sure, nothing like I had seen before or since.

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One thought. If he doesn't have the money to fix the problem now, he won't have the money to back his work in the future. Get someone else.

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The Dept of Ag has sent us a list of contractors, we are in the process getting one of them out to look at it. On the other side of the dam (the dry side) there is a little creek that the drain pipe has made. There are 3 places in this that is bubbling water out of the ground. Today we closed off the pipe, we put die into the pipe.
And the die came out those ground holes that were bubbling water. So that has to mean that there is a leak in the pipe. Doesnt it?

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Where exactly are is the water bubling out of the ground?? I can't quite follow.

The senerio of a hole sucking mud/dirt into the pipe doesn't seem feasable to me. I could easily be wrong but the water passing through the pipe should be under a positive pressure with a head of water above it which would not allow anything entering the pipe. Further a hole in the pipe large enough for mud to seep into to the point that it runs out the other end should have been easily noticed by the contractor.

What time of year was the dam built? Could there have been snow on the ground? If snow is pushed into the dam & compacted it will eventuall melt causing a void which will then sink. Several such pockets could allow a path for water through the dam.


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Its an old creek bed on the dry side of the dam, thats where the drain pipe comes out of the dam and drains into when the pond gets high enough to drain out. The water is bubbling out of ground in 3 different places in this creek bed. So we feel like the water has made its own way through the dam and is exiting out the floor of this creek bed. At this time no water is comming out the drain. The pond is below the drain. But the creek is running from the water that is comming out these 3 holes in it. The contractor says that at no time should that pipe through the dam be no more than 80% full, even at our hardest rain. Therefore, he says that it could not have that kind of water pressure behind it. But I know for a fact that is not true. I've seen what comes out of that pipe. And the pressure at which it shoots out. After the dye test today we know that there is a hole in the drain pipe that goes through the dam. And the dye comes out of the gound at the base of the dam. I know this is hard to picture. I guess if you picture a water line that has a hole in it. With the water pressure it has going through it will force water through that hole and disolve the dirt around it. Thats what we think has happened. What makes us think the dirt has been drawn back into the pipe and out the end, is the type and color of the dirt that is deposited. That dirt that is dam was brought in from somewhere else and is different that what we have. We do not get much snow to speek of, a dusting or two. This has been a freek accident of weather at the wrong time and the contractor didnt help by not pressure checking the drain before he covered it. To say the least it has been a very interesting experience and an expensive lesson. We are probably going to loose all the fish we orginally stocked it with, plus all that have raised so far. All the comments you have provided have been a great help, and I do appreciate your patients with the long posts. We will give you updates as to the progress. May our lesson can be of some use to someone else along the way.


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