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#480224 - 09/22/17 07:25 AM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13537
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I have found it to be fairly common in lmb of around 1.5 to 2 inches when confined.
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#480239 - 09/22/17 10:55 AM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 345
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
I grade hard when confining black fingerlings. Additionally, you can suppress a lot of the outright aggression by increasing stocking density.

When a ponds are harvested for LMB fingerlings, the fingerlings are sorted immediately to uniform size classes where there can be as many as four classes. Fish that are abnormally large / suspected cannibals are tossed in with larger fish as forage. Once they are feed trained, interest in eating brethren is greatly reduced. My preference is to bring fry into confined when only 1" as they are still in schooling mode with dad. That also generally before zooplankton bloom crashes.


If all goes well, next spring we will be feed training about 10,000 each of LMB and Spotted Bass for use in experiments. Some can be set aside for photographs showing color changes related to what I do not like to see.
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Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#480280 - 09/23/17 12:02 PM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 345
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Water mites that were very abundant today appear to targeted now by the fry. Larger adult female appear to to be immune. I generally do not consider water mites a good forage for any type of fish. The brightly colored red mites and blueish mites I think taste bad to fish.
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Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#480302 - 09/23/17 11:49 PM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5101
Loc: SE Kansas
Jim do you know of any sources of Spotted Bass fingerlings?

I like pan fish and am not really into trophy LMB. I think the size of the Spotted bass might work in controlling BG in a pond managed for panfish.

USGS says they are native to my area, but I never fish anywhere but my ponds so do not know if they are really in my area normally.
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#480309 - 09/24/17 07:09 AM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 345
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
We are actively looking for Spotted Bass and may seek to be a supplier ourselves. We need to have lots of Spotted Bass for a food-fish trial where they will be compared to LMB used to supply the live-fish market. It is fun wading through the legal code trying to see how it can be done.


I want to culture native stock rather than import a strain from down south. Not 100 yards from our ponds we have a strong Spotted Bass population that is generally considered invasive at the expense of Smallmouth Bass. The Spotted Bass moved in only a couple decades ago, possibly through natural range expansion. Not all Smallmouth Bass stocks are handling that well. In one location, where I did crayfish work about 20 years ago, a lot of hybrids were evident that have now been largely replaced by Spotted Bass.
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Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#480316 - 09/24/17 11:23 AM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 345
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
I just made visual estimate on the number of surviving fish. It appears to be at least 80 fish and they are catching up to indoor-reared siblings. Temperature outside over last week has been flirting with what I think is lower part of the optimal range for growth. I am also also supplementing forage with brine shrimp nauplii that are less than 24-h old. Very soon the fry will start going after insects at surface. This has not been a normal year as normally we would start looking for frost. We have not had normal years for at least a decade.
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Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#480317 - 09/24/17 11:26 AM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5101
Loc: SE Kansas
I read that they readily hybridized with SMB and that what was once subspecies Wichita Spotted was actually a hybrid.

That would be ok too, SMB and Spotts to begin with. Will let you get back on topic.


Edited by snrub (09/24/17 11:29 AM)
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#480597 - 10/02/17 07:44 AM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 345
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Fry are now about 40 days post-conception. Larger fish are pushing an inch. They are now getting chunky in width and depth. I am providing am supplementing forage with a combination of live and dried feeds. Indoor fish at least four times mass of those outside. Fish now move into structure rather than away when a shadow goes over them. Current size is now in range where typical small nets / seines will pick them up. Soon I will place them in tanks of an RAS where they will be fed exclusively on a salmon starter until they are about 2.5 inches long which for many will be realized in another 45 days. Then they will be tagged and combined into a larger tank where they will be pushed to breeder size by next spring.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#480608 - 10/02/17 02:19 PM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19493
Loc: Miss.
Jim can you provide your thoughts on why the indoor fish are so much bigger?
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#480625 - 10/02/17 07:04 PM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 345
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Food quality and quantity I think are roughly similar. What likely sets indoor ahead is the warmer temperature. The tank does experience a range of temperatures that are likely on average below what is optimal for BG larvae and fry. The indoor setup holds a very steady 25 C where growth rates we see at least match best you can find in the literature. That said, we do not know optimal temperature for such early life-stage BG, regardless of subspecies.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#480635 - 10/02/17 09:49 PM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19493
Loc: Miss.
Yes there is optimal growth info on adults but I have not seen that info on early stage BG. My guess is a little warmer than adults but just a guess.
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#481770 - 10/28/17 06:28 PM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 345
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Temperature in stock tank now down into middle 40's F, below what these guys would ever experience in the wild. The fish are only three generations from collection out of natural waters near Tampa. None appear to be interested even in live BS so likely not feeding. They are far too small and thin to go into winter, even if they were Northern Bluegill. Will harvest all that remain and acclimate them to a 75-gallon aquarium for winter.

Tank will then be drained till next March. Round two will involve breeding Fliers in same tank. I really want get pictures of a male Flier on the nest, then rear them up in the same tank.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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#481791 - 10/29/17 09:42 AM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19493
Loc: Miss.
CNBG even a few generations from their natural homeland don't do well in cold water. Probably at/near there minimum lethal temp at low 40s. Sounds like a good plan.
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#481801 - 10/29/17 12:23 PM Re: Breeding Bluegill In A 400-gallon Stock Tank [Re: Jim Wetzel]
Jim Wetzel Offline


Registered: 08/16/17
Posts: 345
Loc: Holts Summit, MO
Tank had 1/4" ice cover at dawn. Fry clearly having troubles with that.
_________________________
Aquaculture
Cooperative Research / Extension
Lincoln University of Missouri

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