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#480097 09/18/17 05:04 PM
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I have been noticing a lot of BG/SF fry lately. They are thick wherever there is cover. It worries me that on closer inspection the only positive IDs are GSF. They are growing good and the biggest was about 2.5 inches and definitely was not a fry anymore.

My predator situation now is 20cc and 30lmb. Note those are stocked numbers not counting possible mortalities. The only CC I've seen was 12 inches and the largest of the bass are 10.5 inches. I don't want this to turn into a case of overpopulation. So I want to know if you think adding 10-15 WE would be a good idea. My goal of adding them is for them to eat the fry as the vegetation dies back or at the very least, compete with the LMB and force them to eat more fry as I only ever see them eating frogs.

My pond is just over half an acre, averages 5 feet deep, and will be aerated (currently "in the shop"). I know this is not ideal for walleye but the pond is fed by seepage and stays relatively cold in summer. All I'm looking for is temporary predation and another bonus fish no giants necessary.


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What are your expectations through next summer? You LMB's will put a dent in the larger sunfish fingerlings getting fat and ready for some quality breeding next spring. Their offspring will be the ones regulating the sunnies.

How many fry have you checked for ID? Could you catch a hundred or so and lay them out in a shallow pan like I suggested? For giggles I will catch a few from my pond to see how phone and camera work for uploading here.


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I've caught a good few with a small net from shore. I'll upload a few of them.

Hope these help. I would put money on all the fry in my tank being GSF although finding a BG would be nice.

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20170809_105344.jpg 20170812_103518.jpg 20170816_171230.jpg 20170918_182011.jpg 20170918_182102.jpg
Last edited by ThePondDragon; 09/18/17 06:25 PM. Reason: pics

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Originally Posted By: Jim Wetzel
What are your expectations through next summer? You LMB's will put a dent in the larger sunfish fingerlings getting fat and ready for some quality breeding next spring.

Next summer I'm looking for the bass to put on at least 4 inches, also I'd like to harvest a few CC as they get to 14-16 inches. I most likely will begin culling all GSF, trying to get my HBG to pack on the pounds, and hoping for the BG and PS to spawn, along with the LMB.


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Is it typical so have so many sunfish types in such a small pond in Wisconsin?


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Originally Posted By: Jim Wetzel
Is it typical so have so many sunfish types in such a small pond in Wisconsin?


Yes and no. The BG were they only ones planned as thats what I ordered (still mad at the hatchery), the PS were wanted for snail predation, and the HBG and GSF were the fish I didn't want although I am having a lot of fun with how big the hybrids are getting on an ultra light rod.

As far as other water bodies, yes it's not uncommon to have plenty of PS mixed in with your BG, and the GSF are always there to steal your bait. Also 99 times out of 100 the normal sunfish are mixed with YP and BCP, the former I plan on stocking soon.

In short, I've never seen a body of water in Wisconsin that the only sunfish is BG.


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The hatchery allowed mixing of stocks in culture ponds or raceways prior to filling your order?

Natural bodies of waters might have a lot more connectivity to local streams than you think. That connectivity can allow self stocking. In these parts and southern Indiana where I grew, the Green Sunfish is the most efficient self stocker. I assume you have heard of it raining fish?


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My guess is they never bothered to separate BG from other SF.
As it would be, a few years back I attempted to bucket stock a few "BG" (really were GSF) from a neighbor's pond but they all died without aeration. I've also seen BH fry which also died to winter kill. So my pond was pretty safe from invaders bigger than minnows before aeration. And no I haven't heard of it raining fish.


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Have you sampled streams your pond drains into? They would be the source of "raining fish".


Winter kill events may not be complete.


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Pond is on a 100% closed waterway. No inlets or outlets even in the most extreme cases of flooding.

Before aeration all that survived winter was stickleback YOY. Even the adults died, so yes the pond was empty before stocking.


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How do you define a 100% closed waterway? I have had the fish swim a 100+ yards on their side during summer rain events from streams or small ponds down hill the pond they are seeking. I think they find new location by smell. Many if not most do not make it but rewards huge when they do.


Why did the YOY sticklebacks survive, I would think they also have high oxygen requirements? Was there a shallow area with an air pocket it underneath, or muskrat / beaver burrow?


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Here is result of taking pictures of small sunfish on a light background. This is in a white bucket making so subject lit from all directions. Fish and background close together so camera has easier time focusing automatically on small fish. Camcorder used to this. Photos taken when sky overcast following heavy rain about 45 minutes before dusk.






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My pond outlined in red. Connected swamp in blue. Closest water in yellow.

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Not entirely sure how they (stickleback) survived, likely due to seepage/ springs in pond.

I will take some white background pics when I get the time.


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I do not see anything in images that would obstruct movement of GSF. I am not familiar with the sticklebacks affinities for ephemeral streams which would make movement between permanent waters easier.

A waterfall more than 2' or a standpipe would be a barrier. If they can find an aquatic route around either during a spate would allow them to colonize your ponds.

Next time I buy fish up your way I will put them in an aquarium for closer scrutiny prior to stocking into ponds.


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Can you tell what my fish are?


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Not to be mean or anything, I understand your concern, but no waterway is connected to my pond and the only way it would be is if we got Harvey level flooding. I'm assuming the sticklebacks got in through birds or bucket stocking. There is a small dam at my property line stopping the water to the south and on all other sides it is up hill.
Originally Posted By: Jim Wetzel
Can you tell what my fish are?


My best guess is warmouth as they look like GSF but the coloration is different.

Back to my original question, are walleye a good choice for this situation?


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I am not well versed in Walleye beyond spawning them and holding them in tanks.

When you have that many species present in a pond that were not invited, then a route for access is more likely than not to be present. To see what I am suggesting you need to go out when the rain is really coming down and more often than night it is dark and you may have lots of lightening. The dogma still is that waterways must be continuously flowing for there to be conduits for fish moving about.


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Ooh I'm sorry, I think I know why we aren't understanding each other. The unwanted fish were mixed in with the other fish while stocking. The hatchery's "BG" was really BG, GSF, PS and every conceivable hybrid of the 3.


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I am understanding you well. Most producers I know go out of their way to sell only what you pay for. If they give you something not ordered. then it will be as a bakers dozen type deal or of a higher value fish. It is bad business practice to sell a species that is widely considered a pest in its pure form. GSF are well known for being a pain the butt.

As appears to be case otherwise, they are very good at colonizing ponds without help from humans. As a kid we had a dozen ponds scattered about the farm. About 2/3's of those ponds had GSF even though we did not stock them into the ponds. My brother and I were the sanctioned bait bucket stockers and a big bull kept other such people out. We could also find GSF in seasonal frog ponds that were well away from the ponds. The fish got in with the early summer rains, bred to produce a bunch of fry, before whole lot would die in late summer when frog ponds dried out. This only happened when heavy summer rains occurred.

This is a lesson best learned through experience which I will leave you to.


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Yes, they are Warmouth and very much stunted. They are not as good at dispersing.


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Although the hatchery didn't give me only BG, I did get PS, which I wanted, but gave me much larger fish than I asked or paid for. I guess some of the blame for my GSF is on me as I should have thrown them on the bank instead of stocking them but I didn't have the heart. I was a young pond meister stocking his first pond, and, I wanted all the fish in. I will try and harvest some GSF and HBG next year but with all the fry, I need some fishy help. This is where the walleye, and or perch, come in


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WE are not the best choice if you want them only for sunfish predation. They do eat sunfish (BG , GSF, RES, PS etc.) especially in cool water when BG et al slow down a bit. Other predators are more adept at sunfish predation if that is the only goal.
















ewest #480196 09/20/17 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: ewest
They do eat sunfish (BG , GSF, RES, PS etc.) especially in cool water when BG et al slow down a bit.

That is exactly what I want and expect them to do because as the water cools down the weeds while die back allowing heavy predation.

Originally Posted By: ewest
Other predators are more adept at sunfish predation if that is the only goal.

Do you have suggestions? The only reason I'm set on walleye is because my normal hatchery has them.


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HSB would be ideal for you. I know they are stocked in WI, not sure how you would source them but they really have many advantages for you over LMB.

Where LMB would be your best sunfish predator, it brings the never ending concern about who controls the LMB numbers?

SMB might be another option alongside the WE where you would reduce the WE numbers and see if you could use SMB as a fixed number stocker that you could keep track of (replace what you catch) more easily since there may not be self-propagation.

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