Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations CC vs BC metabolic differences

I had made a post a while back about this in a larger post but I believe it got overlooked. Anyway I was wondering if anyone has read literature or had experience in the different feeding habits and metabolic differences between channel cats and blue cats at different water temperatures. I've read and experienced that blues seem much more active in cooler waters whereas channel cats really seem to be easiest to catch during the warmest times of the year. Is there any research out there explaining why blues are more aggressive during cooler water temps? I'll hang up and listen.

I have raised both and CC x BC at same time. One pond even had CC and BC together. I did not angle mine as they where harvested by seine. CC seemed to eat pellets better when temperatures got below 70 F but BC grew faster when water as warmer. Hybrids grew better than both.

Pond with CC and BC together allowed for some really cool observations when snorkeling. What I saw there probably occurs in the wild as well.

Let's hear more about the snorkeling observations.


I've got a 15 acre pond that is about 44 years old. Carp, bullhead, some crappie and natural channel catfish reproduction. A little less than two years ago I began stocking BC. They appear to be doing well with some up around 4 lbs. About 6 wks ago I worked a deal with a local commercial trout farm to feed their cleanings (heads, spine, internal organs, etc) to my catfish. I was hoping to observe the difference between how well the CC and BC feed on such. Unfortunately right now my clarity is so poor I can't tell if the fish are BC or CC when feeding. It'll be interesting to watch over the next few years.

In 1/10 acre ponds stocked with about 2,000 each of CC and BC (4" to 6") you could see from the pond bank you could see a single tightly organized school. From in the water while sitting on the bottom at a depth to 4' the same school had a totally different look where fish were segregated by species. CC formed a layer closer to the bottom while BC were more midwater. There was roughly a 1' gap between the two layers with NO fish giving the appearance of a layered cookie.

Another cool observation involved Northern Water Snakes working same schools.

Interesting indeed!! Any theories as to why that may have been?

I hoping to make my pond under current construction a blue catfish pond if I can source them. I still do not have a plan for the forage fish yet, but will add FHM first after it fills.

I think I'd go crappie and bluegill as forage base. Or any type of fish that tends to reproduce in great numbers and would otherwise be a risk of stunting.

What type of substrate do you have? I've got a silt/Clay substrate so carp cause turbitity issues that I don't like. But if I had sand or rock I think common carp would be a good idea. A great way to control vegetation and create a forage base.

Pond will be a 1/4 acre clay bowl. It seems like a sport fish like crappie might work, and I don't have these in my other two 1 acre ponds. The new pond may go 1/3 acre depending on how patient I am (digging myself with smaller equipment). Right now, I am dealing with water coming in between two clay layers which is challenging even though I have a good drain much lower down. And we are experiencing a pretty good drought right now!

Do you have access to a pond with an over population of fish? I'm thinking an 'artificial' forage. Such as trapping or catching fish somewhere else, cutting them, and feeding them to the cats. I have the good fortune of having a commercial trout farm up the road. Feeding about 150-200 cut up trout per week seems to be working very well.

I do not plan to feed the fish, but I am quite patient so am willing to wait until the pond is packed with forage. I also plan to stock the BC light and hope for reproduction (in sunken plastic drums.

I'll be following yours closely. When you get it started make sure to start a separate thread. There just isn't much info on here about blue cats. I have a feeling they're going to become more popular over time.

My first challenge will be finding some. Well, my very first challenge will be spending enough time on the small dozer to finish the pond:)

A producer near me has a strain of BC they have been breeding for some time.

I do not think BC's are more aggressive when water is cooler. They do feed differently when at the surface. When they are after floating pellets the BC's stay tighter as they feed and do not come into shallow water as readily. The "whiskers" on BC's also look smaller relative to splash they make when feeding.

My observations stopped once the BC's reach about 5-lbs.

Osage Cstfishery?

That's the genetics I have in my pond. Was a bit worried they may not do well in ponds but so far so good.

Yes. They are pond bred over a few generations at least.

A bit far from me.

We can find info on BC it depends on what you want. Finding solid info on the metabolic rate of BC vs CC will be not so easy. I will look. What is the exact context of the question ? BC are not native to ponds/still water and CC are more so. They have adapted over eons to their primary environment. BC are more riverine so they tend to eat more pelagic fish first like shads , sand bass ,etc.

Lots at Fishbase - take a look.


BC -http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?ID=3019&AT=blue+catfish
Biology
Inhabits deep water of impoundments and main channels and backwaters of medium to large rivers, over mud, sand and gravel (Ref. 5723). Feeds on small aquatic invertebrates, clams and fishes (Ref. 93252). Prefers clear, strongly flowing water. Marketed fresh and frozen. Eaten steamed, fried, broiled, microwaved and baked (Ref. 9988).


Distribution
North America: USA (Mobile and Mississippi basins; and Texas coastal drainages between Mississippi and Río Grande basins) and Mexico (Río Bravo (Grande) and Soto La Marina basins).


CC - http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?ID=290&AT=channel+catfish
Distribution
North America: Central drainages of the United States to southern Canada and northern Mexico.

Biology
Adults inhabit rivers and streams and prefer clean, well oxygenated water (Ref. 9988), but also in ponds and reservoirs (Ref. 10294, 44091). They feed primarily on small fish, crustaceans (e.g. crayfish), clams and snails; also feed on aquatic insects and small mammals (Ref. 9669, 10294, 44091). Marketed fresh, smoked and frozen; eaten steamed, fried, broiled, boiled, microwaved and baked (Ref. 9988). Albino form common in the aquarium trade (Ref. 13371).

Only about a dozen papers treat BC that come up in Google Scholar. I am unable to find original source I had for interspecies comparison of feed activity as that may have been a personal communication. My efforts with BC, CC and F1 hybrid CC(female) X BC(male) were back in the 1990's, so not fresh. Yet, I am confident about relative feeding activities as a function of temperature as we had several ponds running in parallel giving similar pattern.


Comparison of Culture Traits of Channel Catfish, Ictalurus punctatus, and Blue Catfish I. furcatus
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J028v03n03_04


Link to below down.
Graham, K., 1999. A review of the biology and management of blue catfish. In Catfish 2000: proceedings of the international ictalurid symposium. American Fisheries Society, Symposium (Vol. 24, pp. 37-49).

Jim,
Would BCxCC and / or pure BC feed on pellets all winter if not iced up?

Try this


A Comparison of Second-Year Growth of
Blue Catfish and Channel Catfish in Kentucky
JAMES H. TIDWELL AND
STEVEN D. MIMS
Community Research Service
Aquaculture Research Center
Kentucky State University
Frankfort, Kentucky 40601. USA
Abstract.—Second-year growths of blue catfish (Ictalurus
furcatus) and channel catfish (/. punctatus) were
compared in north-central Kentucky. Percent weight gain
was significantly higher (P < 0.05) for blue catfish than
for channel catfish. There were no significant differences
(P > 0.05) in feed conversion or survival. Blue catfish
showed more consistent growth and were easier to seine
than were channel catfish. Blue catfish should be evaluated
further in temperate regions.
Several attributes may make the blue catfish (Ictalurus
furcatus) an attractive alternative to channel
catfish (/. punctatus) for commercial culture
as food fish in certain regions of the country. Optimum
growing temperature for blue catfish is reported
to be about 24°C, compared to 30°C for
channel catfish (Collins 1988). Such moderate
temperature requirements could extend the growing
season of blue catfish in cooler regions of the
USA (Huner 1988). Also, blue catfish have a higher
dress-out percentage and are easier to seine than
channel catfish (Chappell 1979). The aggressive
nature of the blue catfish might be highly desirable
in areas with large fee-fishing markets (such as
Kentucky).
The blue catfish may be inferior to the channel
catfish as a cultured species due to slower growth
at sizes less than 1 Ib and less efficient feed conversion
(Huner and Dupree 1984). Several producers,
however, have reported that blue catfish
grow faster than channel catfish in the first year
(Collins 1988). Chappell (1979) indicated that
growth of the two species is similar in the first 2
years and that channel catfish perform slightly better.
Dunham (1979) found that third-year blue
catfish and channel catfish grew at the same rate
during the winter. However, these studies were
conducted in the Deep South (Alabama). Production
of the two species has not been compared in
cooler climates, such as Kentucky.
The objective of this study was to compargrowth and feed conversion in blue catfish and
channel catfish during the second growing season
(fingerling to harvest size) in north-central Kentucky.
On 4 May 1987, blue catfish and channel catfish
were stocked at a density of 6,175 fish/hectare into
triplicate 0.04-hectare earthen ponds (six ponds
total; Table 1). Ponds were about 1.5 m deep and
supplied with water from a reservoir filled by runoff;
water levels were maintained by periodic additions
to replace evaporation. Water temperature
and dissolved oxygen (DO; model 54A oxygen
meter, Yellow Springs Instruments Co.) were
monitored twice daily at a depth of 0.5 m. Ponds
were aerated if DO levels were predicted to reach
3.0 mg/L or less during the night. Fish were fed
in midafternoon with a commercial floating feed
(32% crude protein) at 3% of body weight daily.
Feed amounts were adjusted every 2 weeks based
upon an assumed feed conversion (amount fed/
weight gain) of 1.5. Periodic fish samples were not
taken because blue catfish do not tolerate handling
and harvest well (Collins 1988), especially at high
temperatures, and sampling causes channel catfish
to stop feeding (Lovell 1989). Fish were harvested
on 9 October 1987 (culture period, 156 d). All fish
were counted and total harvest weights were recorded
for each pond.
Student's /-tests (P = 0.05) were used for twomean
comparisons of stocking weight, harvest
weight, percent weight gain, weight of feed offered,
feed conversion, and percent survival (Dowdy and
Wearden 1983). Percentage data were transformed
(arcsine) before analysis (Steel and Torrie
1980).
Morning DO averaged 6.7 mg/L, and afternoon
DO 8.2 mg/L. Average monthly afternoon water
temperatures ranged from a high of 26°C in July
to a low of 20PC in October. The overall mean for
the culture period was 24°C, the temperature reported
to be optimum for blue catfish (Collins
1988).
There was a significant difference (P < 0.05) in
stocking weight for the two species (Table 1), but
no significant difference (P > 0.05) in harvest
weight, feed conversion, or survival. Survival was
low (75%) in one channel catfish replicate due to
TABLE 1.—Performance of blue catfish and channel catfish cultured for 156 d during second-year growth. Values
are means (SEs) for three replicate ponds. An asterisk indicates that the two means within a column are significantly
different (Student's /-test, P < 0.05).
Species
Blue catfish
Channel catfish
Stocking weight
(g)
85.8 (0.3)*
98.8 (3.2)
Harvest weight
(g)
594.6 (5.2)
577.5(55.5)
Weight gain8
(%)
593.3 (4.7)*
485.8 (74.3)
Feed
conversion6
1.3(0.1)
1.7(0.5)
Survival
(%)
99.3(1.2)
89.7(13.5)
a Percent increase from stocking to harvest.
b Feed conversion = amount fed/weight gain of fish.
an infestation of Ambiphrya sp. (which explains
the large SE for survival in Table 1). The elevated
feed conversion for channel catfish (1.7) may have
resulted from overfeeding in this pond. Feed conversion
for blue catfish (1.3) was somewhat better
than the 1.5 reported by Chappell (1979). Percent
weight gain was significantly greater for blue catfish
than for channel catfish (P < 0.05). Blue catfish
averaged a 593.3% gain, whereas channel catfish
averaged 485.8%. Chappell (1979) reported
larger weight gains, but stocked smaller fingerlings
and cultured fish for 208 d.
Growth of blue catfish in replicate ponds was
consistent compared to that of channel catfish, as
demonstrated by the low SEs for ponds containing
blue catfish (Table 1). Blue catfish were also more
easily seined, as observed by Chappell (1979). The
three ponds of blue catfish in this study yielded
100%, 100%, and 99% of the fish on the first seine
haul.
Chappell (1979) found that blue catfish and
channel catfish demonstrated similar second-year
growth in Alabama and that channel catfish were
slightly larger at harvest. Our study in Kentucky
found significantly faster second-year growth of
blue catfish. The overall mean temperature during
the study period (24°C) was the reported optimum
for blue catfish (Collins 1988). Chappell (1979)
did not report mean water temperatures for comparison,
but did remark that water temperatures
were unusually high at the July sampling, suggesting
that temperatures were closer to the optimum
for channel catfish.
The blue catfish warrants further examination
as a cultured species, especially in regions with
temperate climates, large pay markets, and singleseason
production systems, for which size consistency
is important.
Acknowledgments.—We thank Julia Clark, Keith
Crabtree, Richard Knaub, Eddie Reed, Jr., Karla
Richardson, and Danny Yancey for assistance.
This investigation was supported by a grant from
the U.S. Department of Agriculture, Cooperative
State Research Service, to Kentucky State University
under agreement KYX-1283000009.
References
Chappell, J. A. 1979. An evaluation of twelve genetic
groups of catfish for suitability in commercial production.
Doctoral dissertation. Auburn University,

In southern Illinois the stocks I had effectively stopped feeding when temperature dropped below 50 F. By that I mean they quit coming to surface.

-- Optimum growing temperature for blue catfish is reported
to be about 24°C, compared to 30°C for
channel catfish (Collins 1988). --

Excellent, this is the type of info I was interested in ewest. As noted in my other thread I have been feeding about 100-120 lbs of trout cleanings to my catfish per week. When feeding in the evenings I seemed to notice the channel cats dominating the feeding. Lately I've switched to feeding via light on my dock after dark. It appears to me the blues may be more involved when I feed via light at night. Not sure why that would be. And it may very well be that I'm mis identifying the fish species. Or it could be the cooling water temps.

Anyway, I had read several articles about fishing for blues in the winter time. So I wondered if there was a metabolic difference in the two impacted by temperature. From the articles I've read it sounds more like the winter fishing success for blues is due to spontaneous winter shad die offs that the blues capitalize on. I also found that flatheads slow their feeding down to nearly being non existent in the winter time. So I have come across a few interesting tid bits. In general I was wondering how this would impact the feeding behavior of my catfishery going into winter and if there were any observations I should be looking for as the water cools down. IF I do notice any differences I will report them here.


PS I have noticed much better success rod and reeling blues before water temps warm up in the summer. Where as I was catching 2 to 1 blues to channels in May and partway into June, I have caught 10 to 1 channels to blues over the summer months.

I would go back to Collins 1988 and scrutinize to make certain findings reported are relevant to interest in a mixed species pond setup.

Stumbled across this while searching for Collins article. I've been interested in the subject of blue catfish and the type of feed I should be feeding....


Abstract
Blue catfish, Ictalurus furcatus, juveniles (54 g) were stocked into 0.04-ha ponds at a density of 9,880/ha and fed one of four diets containing 32% or 38% protein and 4% or 8% fish meal. After 168 days, there were no significant differences (P > 0.05) in body weights, survival, weight gains, or other production variables. There was a significant difference (P &#8804; 0.05) in feed conversion ratios (FCR), with the FCR for fish fed the 38% protein diet with 8% fish meal being higher than for fish fed other diets. During July and August, total ammonia-nitrogen and nitrite-nitrogen concentrations were also significantly higher (P &#8804; 0.05) in ponds in which fish were fed the 38% protein diet with 8% fish meal. These data indicate that increased protein and/or fish meal does not increase weight gain in blue caash and that blue catlish can be fed a diet with 32% protein and 4% fish meal when stocked at density < 10,000/ha.