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#479425 09/02/17 07:41 PM
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Finally received a 50 lb sack of AM MVP today. It says 43% protein on the tag, but looks just like tan colored catfish pellets of uniform 1/4 inch size. Is it supposed to look like that?

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bump

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No help here John, never fed the stuff.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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John
I've been through three different feed companies research facilities over the years. Until that, I didn't know feed color is not always a direct reflection of ingredients. Many feeds have coloring added to them to give them a special color.
Follow the tag. Ingredients are most important. I've been using that product since they introduced it. Grows fish fast.


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I was thinking Aquamax MVP was a mixture of different sizes, but my bag is uniform, rounded, 1/4" pellets.

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Maybe a mislabel? I'm feeding AM500 now and my fish love it. I almost got MVP but was worried about how my feeder would feed it due to different sized pellets. Have you looked down into the bag?? Maybe some of the different sizes migrated down during shipment or movement at the store?? Unlikely but possible.


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I poured the bag contents into a plastic bin. All the pellets are uniform, about 1/4".

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I have been feeding AM MVP since early June when my stockers were released into their new home. When I saw the consistent size of the pellets I thought I had received the wrong Purina chow from the elevator. But the small white label says "Aquamax Sportfish MVP". Pellets are definitely uniform and I just filled up the feeder with the rest of the second bag a week or so ago.

My understanding, based on the Purina web site, is that there are supposed to be a variety of sizes with some floating and some slowly sinking or suspending under the surface. That does not appear to be the case with the 2 bags I have used.

I am going to contact Purina when I have time and try to find out what the story is. Will report back if I have any luck. BM61.

Last edited by bassmaster61; 09/06/17 09:49 AM.

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Sounds hauntingly familiar.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I bought a bag early spring and it had all the different sizes. I never bought more because my TH Feeder wouldn't throw the larger size.


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Sounds like I might have paid double for a mis-labeled bag of catfish pellets.

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Catfish feed is not 43% but more like 30%.
















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Originally Posted By: ewest
Catfish feed is not 43% but more like 30%.


I am aware of that. I have an inquiry to Purina. The website describes MVP as a mixture of sinking and floating, varying sizes. The pellets that I got labeled Aquamax MVP are all uniform, floating. I think maybe some bags got filled with 32% catfish pellets and labeled as AM MVP.

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I hope you are wrong John. I have gone through almost two bags of MVP since early June and just bought a third to finish out the season. The first two were purchased at the same time so maybe from the same batch (I know, unlikely). I will see what the third bag looks like but the first two had all pellets the same size.

Purina should have better quality control in place than that. After way more than 100 years in business they should have it figured out. BM61.

Last edited by bassmaster61; 09/06/17 09:46 AM.

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Originally Posted By: bassmaster61
I hope you are wrong John. I have gone through almost two bags of MVP since early June and just bought a third to finish out the season. The first two were purchased at the same time so maybe from the same batch (i know, unlikely). I will see what the third bag looks like but the first two had all pellets the same size.

Purina should have better quality control in place than that. After way more than 100 years in business they should have it figured out, BM61.


Yes, please let us know if the third bag is all pellets the same size too. That is not what is advertized. I bought my bag to get a variety that could be fed to both CC and BG of different sizes.

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I have been feeding MVP and mine have pellets of varying sizes and some sink and some float. I think this is the way they are suppose to be. I have been feeding it most of the summer and have liked it.

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Originally Posted By: bassmaster61
I hope you are wrong John. I have gone through almost two bags of MVP since early June and just bought a third to finish out the season. The first two were purchased at the same time so maybe from the same batch (I know, unlikely). I will see what the third bag looks like but the first two had all pellets the same size.

Purina should have better quality control in place than that. After way more than 100 years in business they should have it figured out. BM61.


There should be a lot number somewhere on the bag or the tag to ID what batch each bag came from. Buying 2 bags at the same time at the same place could very likely be from the same lot number.


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Sounds more like you got AM600 instead of AM MVP.....

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I sent an email to the top Purina guys to review this thread. Dr. Michael Schlegel replied:

"The product should be dark brown to black and have 9 different sized particles.
 
To follow-up with the plant, it would help to know where the product was purchased and provide a picture of the product, bag, and tag.  It is helpful to have the lot number.  There should be a blue or green sticker on the bag with a 3 digit number followed by 17.  Given this information, we can look into this further at the plant."

He also asked to communicate with John Fitzgerald, so I've emailed and brought the them together.

We'll follow up on this thread so everyone can see the results.
 


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Purchased from Farmers Cooperative in western Arkansas on September 2nd. Lot number 3003410-706. Blue tag: RT 114-17

Here's a pic of pellets and bag. A few of the pellets are a little smaller, but this is typical. They are pictured in the lid of a small size peanut butter jar for size comparison.

Tag says Purina Aquamax Sportfish MVP

43% crude protein.

I am not saying anything is wrong. I never purchased AM MVP before and did not know what it is supposed to look like. That's the reason for the original question. Everything may be fine. CC and BG are eating it well.

Attached Images
IMG_20170908_110640[1].jpg IMG_20170908_111051[1].jpg IMG_20170908_144136[1].jpg
Last edited by John Fitzgerald; 09/08/17 02:45 PM.
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Yeah that don't look dark brown to black to me??? And that sure don't look like 9 different sizes... Maybe 2 or 3 different sizes...

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Bob, I have communicated the same as in my post to the Purina contact who emailed me. Will post when I hear back. As I said, there may be nothing out of order. Never saw AM MVP before, but what i received does not fit the verbal description of it, which could have changed.

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MVP supposed to look like this:

3 sizes, dark brown color

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John......just checked my Lot Number: 3003410-706.....that is the same as yours. I bought my initial 2 bags of MVP at the Jersey Farmers Elevator in Jerseyville, Illinois. They do not stock MVP and had to order mine. It came in their weekly shipment from Purina. My feed also looked the same as your pics. The pellets canyoncreek is showing in his pics are darker than mine...and of course are a variety of sizes. The pellets in my 2 bags of MVP were all about 1/4".

I think we might be onto something here. I have an email out to Purina as well. Sent it Wednesday. Have not heard back yet but mentioned the Pond Boss Forum in my text. Glad to see Bob chimed in. It sounds like Purina will certainly take a close look now. Thanks. BM61.

Last edited by bassmaster61; 09/08/17 02:20 PM.

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Originally Posted By: bassmaster61
John......just checked my Lot Number: 3003410-706.....that is the same as yours. I bought my initial 2 bags of MVP at the Jersey Farmers Elevator in Jerseyville, Illinois. They do not stock MVP and had to order mine. It came in their weekly shipment from Purina. My feed also looked the same as your pics. The pellets canyoncreek is showing in his pics are darker than mine...and of course are a variety of sizes. The pellets in my 2 bags of MVP were all about 1/4".

I think we might be onto something here. I have an email out to Purina as well. Sent it Wednesday. Have not heard back yet but mentioned the Pond Boss Forum in my text. Glad to see Bob chimed in. It sounds like Purina will certainly take a close look now. Thanks. BM61.


Dr. Michael Schlegel has been in contact with me, but said don't expect to hear from him again until sometime next week. From what I have gathered, they want to make things right if something is amiss. I don't know if that would be another bag, coupon, or just an apology, or whatever. We shall see. Nothing may be wrong at all. The formula may have changed, for all I know.

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John,
Did you send him a photo of the tag from that bag?


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No, but I sent him the lot numbers and the blue tag number, plus the bag photo. He replied and didn't ask anything further. I'll send him a tag photo asap.

Edit: I sent the tag pic, and also posted it on here with my other two pics in my earlier reply #479673.

I may just be blowing smoke, I don't really know. But the product looks different from the verbal descriptions and some other pics. The formula may have changed, IDK.

Last edited by John Fitzgerald; 09/08/17 02:49 PM.
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Boy, the picture of the guy on the back of that bag sure looks familiar.


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Excellent! I'll stay in touch with them. I want to hear the answers as well.

Then formula hasn't changed. Neither has the process of making that feed. Something is amiss, and we need to know. I've been using MVP and it's been totally consistent from here. Same plant makes it, so it can't be an issue from feed being made at a different location. It can't be ingredients, because they're really picky about that. So, I'm as interested as you are, maybe more.

It will take Dr. Schlegel a few days because he's got several different research points to investigate, from the bottom up.

Last edited by Bob Lusk; 09/08/17 04:02 PM.

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I am going to go ahead and keep feeding it, because the MVP and a few pounds of CC pellets is the only fish food I have, and it's only about seven weeks or so until end of feeding here.

Sounds like Bassmaster61 has the same lot of feed I have, with the same appearance.

I didn't want to make waves about this...almost sorry I asked in the first place.

Last edited by John Fitzgerald; 09/08/17 06:23 PM. Reason: added sentence
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You are not making negative waves. If we are helping Purina discover a flaw in their system/process they will (or should) be happy we are bringing it to their attention. You don't stay in business for as long as Purina by disappointing customers. BM61.


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Bassmaster61: PM sent

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Originally Posted By: Bob Lusk
I sent an email to the top Purina guys to review this thread. Dr. Michael Schlegel replied:

"The product should be dark brown to black and have 9 different sized particles.
 
To follow-up with the plant, it would help to know where the product was purchased and provide a picture of the product, bag, and tag.  It is helpful to have the lot number.  There should be a blue or green sticker on the bag with a 3 digit number followed by 17.  Given this information, we can look into this further at the plant."

He also asked to communicate with John Fitzgerald, so I've emailed and brought the them together.

We'll follow up on this thread so everyone can see the results.
 


That is what my MVP always looked like. I just have trouble getting it from my dealer.


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I find Purina to be consistent with their inconsistency. wink

My first "what the??" moment:

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=304252&page=all

The final straw, no more Purina for me:

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=412242&page=1


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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We used to raise show rabbits and and had major problems with Purina feed. Went around in circles with them to no avail . lost expensive breeders , wound up dropping them and to this day will not buy ANY product from them.

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If I had read the previous threads that sprkplug mentioned, I probably would not have mentioned any inconsistency in the feed. Seems nothing was done before. My local farmers coop also says it takes some effort to get it.

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I'm surprised Mr. Lusk is comfortable having his face on the bag

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canyoncreek's comment above made me bristle a little bit...but that doesn't matter.
I won't apologize for any company's behavior, except mine. And, I won't make any excuses for Purina Mills.

The threads sprkplg offered above are true. The first one (five years ago, by the way), Purina switched production from one of their mills to another of their mills. They figured out there was a production problem, and then they fixed it. It had nothing to do with ingredients. It was painful for all involved, and then they took care of it. It didn't take long for them to solve it.

The second thread also shared a problem. That's when the company sold the mill where AquaMax had been made since 2012, and the production team decided (without telling anyone else through the company) that they would only produce their core products at the remaining extrusion mill. That eliminated fish food from production. By that point, inventory was gone, and Purina reps (once they figured out what was going on), scrambled and found a private mill that would contract to make the feed. So, supply was solved, but even though the recipe was the same, the manufacturing process wasn't. That cost them some customers. That was also about the time Optimal came onto the scene and quite a few folks on this forum switched. Purina solved this production issue by changing plants again. There's been no other issues until this one (that I'm aware of). In this case, there's now a fact-finding mission to figure out what's going on, to see if there's a problem or not. If there is, I expect Purina to figure it out and fix it. If not, I expect to hear about that, too.

When I agreed to endorse their AquaMax products several years ago, I'd grown some outstanding fish with those products. Countless numbers of two pound bluegills, some three pound + bluegills, thousands of feed-trained largemouth bass and hybrid stripers.

It does get a little frustrating to have to deal with problems and inconsistency. At the same time, they've always addressed any issues I've confronted them with. (The two that sprkplg shared above are the two biggest ones, and I've not been real nice about it when I talk to them...I expect quality and consistency).

I expect them to find out the facts about John Alexander's issue as stated above, and I expect to find out the truth and share it on this thread.

I also expect that fish food to do what it is supposed to do.

I won't excuse mistakes. I will understand that we are dealing with a company full of people who do jobs. If the whole chain works, then we, as consumers, get what we expect. If not, we have a choice.

Many people on this forum haven chosen to use different brands of fish food. That's fine with me. I happen to still believe in Purina and have a degree of loyalty, because I've been working with them for 22 years to help develop the best fish foods they can build. If they stop making mistakes, we'll all be thrilled. That means I won't have to sit down and spend this time answering for them. If they don't stop making mistakes, but address each one and offer a legitimate response, I'll maintain my loyalty. If they make mistakes and try to excuse them or ignore them, there will be a different story.

So, I expect to hear from upper management at the company about this issue and we'll decide from there. I don't expect them to offer their thoughts on this forum, but I do expect them to tell me (and John Alexander) and we'll share it on this thread.

My parting shot is this...when we all stop making mistakes, I'll be much less tolerant of others mistakes.


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I'm sure this will just be an issue of mislabled bags. They probably changed production run and someone forgot to change the labels.

Bob, I'm glad you lent your mug to their bag, as I'm sure you will try and make sure it is the best product they can produce. If not, at least we have someone with pull to have a voice for us. Keeping high quality at AM, makes all other producers keep up as well. Competition is a great thing.


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I have not had any problem with Aquamax for the two years I have been feeding it, other than at times it is hard for me to come by it. Nor have I had any problems with some Sportsman Choice (Cargill) or Optimal. All, as far as I can tell, appear to be what is listed on the tag and the fish gobble all of it down.

Right now I am feeding 36% Sportsman Choice and 32% Purina sportfish (with a small amount of Optimal and Optimal Jr mixed in for the smaller fish) because Tractor Supply keeps the cheaper feeds on hand (though now I have bought their entire supply other than a broken bag) and I ran out of Aquamax MVP a week ago even though my last order to my dealer is 3 weeks old now.

I like MVP. I like it better than mixing AM 600, 500 and a little 400 like I used to. I wish I had it now but I feed what I can get.

I would just like to have it available a little earlier in the season and on a more consistent basis.

I give everybody involved a little slack because I realize hardly anyone in my area feeds fish and the few that do likely mostly purchase 32% catfish food. As far as I know, the two Purina dealers I have dealt with, I am the one and only Aquamax purchaser they have ever had. So it is not surprising they do not want to get stuck with a bunch of stale inventory. I usually order 2 to 4 weeks ahead of my needs, and still do not always get what I want. I just need more people in my area interested in feeding quality feed.

Last edited by snrub; 09/11/17 04:50 PM.

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When I began feeding aq500 I remember thinking that I had made it to the big time. I was feeding a premium product, the same stuff that the pros on pondboss were using. It seemed to offer a legitimacy to my efforts to grow huge bluegills.

And to be fair, the AQ absolutely grew my fish. The results were incredible. But as my fish continued to grow, I began noticing something I had never seen before. My fish were fat...
As in cut one open, and there was a layer of gelatinous material surrounding their organs. Then others began noticing this with their fish also. Then there began the talk of shortened lifespans,liver damage, etc. To my knowledge nothing concrete or substantial ever came from this talk, so I don't know if there's anything to it. But the seed was planted in my mind, and when the other issues with product consistency and availability reared their heads, that's all it took for me to switch.

And I agree with Bob in that this was about the time Optimal appeared on the market. I had been feeding Skretting, and just wasn't satisfied with it. The optimal has my full attention at the moment. I absolutely love what it's doing for my fish, and the personal attention to customer service has won me over. I never had that with Purina.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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That was a problem early on, but one of my favorite things about Purina has been their attention to nutrition. When Dr. Mark Griffin was their nutritionist, he spent quite a bit of time working on that formula to avoid fat and organ issues. He changed the amount of starch (have to have starch to extrude the pellet) and the amounts and types of fats, along with a strong vitamin package to avoid issues of fat. Before he figured it out, we had some fish pushing past 150 Wr. Those fish were obese. After he made a few adjustments, we started regularly seeing fish staying around 110-125, which is more to my liking. While a largemouth bass at 150 Wr looks amazing, its gut is full of a greasy, white fat. Keep in mind, I do think fish need to go into winter with a healthy store of fat, so they don't metabolize muscle tissue. They'll use that fat for energy, even though they are cold-blooded. Then, going into spring, they have developed eggs, didn't lose much mass and have a headstart for the next season. To me, that's an important part of feeding fish. Another thing I learned as we use AquaMax products...the importance of adequate feeding. My clients have a tendency to overfeed. Even if the fish eat it, there's only so much food they need to keep them on a healthy upward growth pace.
My thoughts...


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It took six weeks last year for me to get a bag of AM Grower 400, and it was $65 before tax (shocked). The Tractor Supply Game Fish Chow here is inexpensive, but seven months old, and I don't want stale food. Only thing I can get locally that's fresh is 32% CC pellets. Sure, I can easily order Optimal, and have obtained several bags (both BG and BG Jr) with no problem, but it's expensive, comparatively to MVP. The 50 lb AM MVP bag I recently bought was $38.
Apparently, I may be the only buyer of MVP in this corner of the state, according to the Co-Op. They transferred that bag from their Mena, AR store, and it took over a week. Maybe I need to order late this fall for next spring, maybe a group buy with some other relatively nearby forum members?

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For clarity, here are some guidelines about ordering fish food.
Purina is a manufacturer. They sell to dealers/feed stores. Purina sales reps work with their dealers to provide product on a timely basis. Most of the dealers are independent, with no contractual arrangement with any of their manufacturers, meaning they are free to buy and sell anything they want. Some are loyal to their manufacturers, others are not. Feed stores have core business that receives most of their focus. Fish food isn't part of the core for most dealers, so they aren't likely to educate themselves about the products. That's why buyers need to know what they want.
It's easy for the dealer to blame the manufacturer for a delayed order. But, Purina's trucks run regularly. Their distribution is nationwide. If a dealer orders it, and the distribution facility has it, the dealer will get it on the next truck. On some occasions, the distribution facility has to receive product from the mill, and that can add a week.
Purina receives orders from their dealers weekly. If the product is in stock, they ship it on the next truck. But, here's something important for you to know...if the product isn't in stock, the dealer need to order it again, the next week. That's how Purina Mills works. They don't keep any "back orders". Their dealers know that...at least they should.
So, when I hear a story about it taking three weeks, or a dealer says, "We can't get it", I know that's a dealer not being straight up with their customers, because they probably didn't order the product, or don't know how Purina works.
If you want Purina products, you've got to use "push" marketing. That means there's a demand and the dealer needs to respond to it. "Pull" marketing is when a manufacturer urges their dealer to sell the inventory. Purina doesn't employ "pull" marketing with some of their specialty feeds...and fish food is one of those feeds. If we want to buy it, we have to find a Purina dealer (which is easy to do) and then "push" them to order the product. They don't want to order a product and sit on it. They want it to move. Fish food is expensive, and has an odor to it. Typical dealers won't have it in stock...so we have to push them to get it for us, and then pick it up. When you hear a dealer make excuses about why they can't get a particular fish food, understand that's what it is, excuses. I don't like it, but sometimes we have to stay on a dealer to get what we want. Once they get into a routine with a consumer, they'll become more consistent.
Every Purina dealer can order any Purina fish food product, if they want to, and understand the system.


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I have to say, the Purina dealer I use in a small town in west-central Illinois told me it would take at most two weeks to get MVP. They receive a Purina shipment every week and the two orders I have placed were both at the dealer the next week. I am very pleased with their service. They call me and let me know when my order arrives. However, my MVP pellets were all the same size in my first order and I have not yet opened a bag from my second order. Maybe I just got lucky and stumbled onto the right dealer who doesn't mind small orders for products they do not stock. BM61.


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The local dealer for Purina here is Farmers Cooperative. I am told the local stores cannot order Purina fish foods directly (corporate policy). A couple of their other stores can but both are 60 to 100 miles away. The local store manager has to cajole one of the other stores into ordering the product, then, once it's in, do a store to store transfer. It's a hassle for them, and they aren't enthusiastic about doing it. If the outlying store fails to order, they have to be called again. That's how it can take weeks and weeks. If I don't find a good supply chain in the future, I am likely stuck with ordering Optimal or feeding catfish pellets, which the BG do eat along with the CC. The local TSC has the Game Fish Chow fresh in the spring (March). They get a pallet and don't replenish until it's sold. They don't end up selling it all, so it gets old and stale by now.

So, someone who wants to feed fish in this area is kind of stuck.

Most people whom I have talked to around here who have stocked CC off the fish truck just feed dog food by hand, and not even every day. I continue to be amazed by their lack of knowledge about the existence of dedicated fish foods.

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I'll be honest, if I were raising the fish in my pond for the dinner table, I wouldn't feed anything but 32% catfish feed. Cheap, and easily obtainable.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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John, piecing together information from both you and Bob I'm starting to get a picture of how the two dealers I have dealt with work.

I did a large early season order from one of several Coops last spring. I got the order fine in a few weeks time. Funny thing is, the coop I picked it up at had to get it throuh a sister coop. I suspect the master coop of the group does the ordering for several stores. But I have to drive 20 miles to pick this feed up.

So the rest of last year and this year I have been using a small mom and pop feed store 5 miles from me that caters mostly to surburban farmers (whereas the coops are mostly commercial farm oriented). They are very happy to get the feed for me and seem to be eager to do it.

But I run into weird problems. I do not know if it is at my dealers end, or the warehouse end. For example I ordered 6 bags MVP one time and the route truck dropped off LMB. I took one bag of the LMB to play with, the dealer returned the LMB and got my MVP. Another time I ordered MVP and the route truck dropped off AM600. Store reordered the MVP and in the mean while I fed some of the AM600. Got some MVP in but only 3 of the 4 bags I ordered. Went on vacation and told daughter (who was feeding the fish for me) to check with the store as I had ordered more MVP. They never got it in so told her to get the AM600 they had left and order some more. They got 1 of 4 bags of MVP in (I assumed the warehouse was out). It has been 3 weeks since I last ordered and still no MVP. What Bob said may come into play. Maybe the dealer only ordered once. Or maybe the warehouse is out or who knows.

Meanwhile I have fed 5 25# bags of the Sportsman Choice feed and have one 50# bag of the Purina cheap multi species stuff I am working on now. And Tractor Supply locally is out now (one other person besides myself must have bought a bag of what they had) so it will be a 30 mile trip north to another TSC if I want more of it.

Just weird stuff. All the dog, cat, goat, rabbit, chicken, cattle, hog and whatever feed one needs. And even 32% catfish food from multiple sources still available and I may be down to that from now till the first of December when water temps typically drop to 50. But finding good fish food locally is like looking for hens teeth in my area. I could always go to Optimal and I may or mix it with CC food.

Seems like in todays age it shoukd be simpler.

Last edited by snrub; 09/12/17 06:56 PM.

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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I'll be honest, if I were raising the fish in my pond for the dinner table, I wouldn't feed anything but 32% catfish feed. Cheap, and easily obtainable.


Sprkplug my fish (to my satisfaction) did great my first year on 32% catffsh food.

Then PBF convinced me I was doing the wrong thing.

So I dutifully switched to better feed.

I have never had any problem with my fish not wanting to eat anything I have thrown out there (except maybe a fishing lure......LOL)

Edit: I only now feed about 3# per acre or less so my fish are only getting feed in a suplimental way. I'm not particularly going for trophies, although I would not turn one down, but rather large numbers of really nice catchable fish.

Last edited by snrub; 09/12/17 07:01 PM.

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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I'll be honest, if I were raising the fish in my pond for the dinner table, I wouldn't feed anything but 32% catfish feed. Cheap, and easily obtainable.


I am only raising the CC for table fare. The CNBG, I am feeding to get the largest possible BG. Then, maybe some of them might become table fare.

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Snrub, I think your post illustrates what I'm thinking. If I'm understanding you correctly, you were satisfied with the performance of your fish on the 32% feed. THEN you discovered pondboss. I wonder how many others are in the same arena as you used to be?

I see it as "us's", and "thems". The "us's" are like what we see here on the forum. Serious about ponds and fish. The "thems", are the overwhelming majority of pond owners. The notion of hiring a consultant, or buying pedigreed fish, is not something they would ever consider. Fish come from a truck that stops in the parking lot of the feed store, and ponds are dug by the same guy who put in your septic system. Certainly neither is preferable, and I think we would all agree on that point. But you know what....there are a TON of satisfied pondowners, who are living this very existence. "They" might have a leak in their pond...."we" have leaks also. "They" might suffer a fishkill in their unaerated pond."We" might very well do the same in our bottom diffused, engineered ponds. "They" might have a problem with "moss". "We" fight FA and pondweed.

Where I see a difference is with the size structure of the fish themselves. "We" pour money and time into our ponds like the waitress pours free refills of sweet tea at a Cracker Barrel. Over and over again. "We" want 11 inch bluegills and double digit bass. "They" are thrilled with the kids catching a stringer of 8-9" bluegills, and the occasional 18" bass. And once the fish go in, the only other money spent on the pond might be for some copper sulfate. And the kicker to all of this? "They're" happy with their pond. We're" happy too, but does the ratio of dollars spent to enjoyment gained, work to our favor or theirs?

Does happiness diminish once knowledge of what MIGHT be, is gained?

Low cost, easily obtainable 32% will grow some pretty good fish...speed costs money, how fast do we want to go.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Quote:
Does happiness diminish once knowledge of what MIGHT be, is gained?


Yes.

First it was my rate of leak and building my pond wrong.

Second was I stocked before I knew what was in the pond...stocked at the wrong time of year...and stocked bass same time as my forage.

Third, I felt like I moved up in the world the first day I opened a bag of optimal and aquamax.

Forth....knowing that if I had found pondboss.com a year earlier all these thing could have and would have been different.

All diminished...no. But I do dwell on things that I wouldn't have before.

Net return of happiness...My pond now is producing what many of "them" ponds around here are producing...difference is mine has been around a few years...theirs has been around for 20 or 30.

Do I have alot of room to improve..yes.

Was I a "them"...yes...am I an "us"...not yet but working on it.

I'm very happy, and if I keep it up will be even more happy.

We all have hobbies we sink our teeth and funds into. We find enjoyment in those things...will we be disappointed from time to time...oh yeah...but the fun is not the goal...the fun is the ride to that goal and learning along the way.

If you find your hobby turning into a job...you might need a new hobby.

Some make a living at this...I'm in aww of those folks. Getting to do what we all want to be able to do at home...but actually make money instead of spend it. lol

Sorry John...not trying to highjack.


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There are definitely differences in those pond owners that are passionate about what they do with their ponds and if it is their main passion hobby they are willing to sink a lot of time and money into it, and the rest who would prefer a nice pond over a not so nice one but don't loose a lot of sleep over it not turning out perfect. I always think of John Monroe when I think about a "go with the flow" pond owner.

Isn't that the purpose of a hobby? Divesting us of our excess time and money?

I'm somewhere in the middle, probably leaning more toward the John Monroe style than a "trophy fishery has to have everything perfect" style. I likely will loose interest after a few years. That is the way my hobbies go. I get intensely interested for a few years, enjoy the learning process, then tire of it. Motorcycle traveling and scuba diving are the only two hobbies that have held my interest from teenage years till today. The others all seem to fall by the wayside after a while.


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Good post peachgrower. I think I'm more of a goal orientated rather than enjoying the journey, kind of guy. Once the goal is achieved, it's time to move on to the next item on the list. I actually met my pond goal a few years back, so perhaps I'm feeling that it's time to quit spending money and time on my ponds, and just enjoy them for what they are. Kinda sounds like what snrub was talking about.

Good luck on the journey peach, It will be interesting to see if, and how your perspectives may change after 7-8 years. If your experience is anything like mine, it will be an awesome ride!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Good post peachgrower. I think I'm more of a goal orientated rather than enjoying the journey, kind of guy. Once the goal is achieved, it's time to move on to the next item on the list. I actually met my pond goal a few years back, so perhaps I'm feeling that it's time to quit spending money and time on my ponds, and just enjoy them for what they are. Kinda sounds like what snrub was talking about.

Good luck on the journey peach, It will be interesting to see if, and how your perspectives may change after 7-8 years. If your experience is anything like mine, it will be an awesome ride!


I am almost totally goal oriented as to my ponds. After I harvest the batch of CC from my newer pond next year, and see how big my BG will get in the old pond, then I will enjoy them for what they are too. I am really tired of pumping to counteract a leak, and not much faith in leak fixing.

Hopefully, the AM MVP feed issue here will be soon resolved. At least we should hear something about it.

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Up until 2009 my hobbies never included a pond unless I was fishing in it which is one of my favorite hobbies. With that said pond management has become a part of my life, not so much because I love to manage ponds but because I love to fish them... lol

Just like I love to hunt. Therefor becoming good at food plots and such and basic farming kinda goes along with it.

To me there is nothing more satisfying then catching that Lunker bass or big blue gill or HSB out of a pond that you created.

Just like taking that nice buck from your land you worked on so hard. Nothing better than that. IMO

Well there is one thing better! Getting to watch your kids do it!!! smile

RC


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Att: Bob Lusk- PM sent

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Received a call from Purina yesterday. A mistake was made at the production plant.
The plant made a run of 32% catfish food. Bags are filled by machine, but the empty bags are staged by a person. The MVP batch was scheduled immediately after the catfish food run. Catfish bags were filled, and underneath those bags were MVP bags, prepped for that run.
There was an overage of product, and the machine picked up MVP bags and filled them, sewed, and tagged. The best they can tell, there were a "few" bags that happened with.
Purina has called those affected (and me) and were appreciative to know about it, so they can police their quality control.
They are embarrassed by this mistake.
They've called the two people here who have been affected with a promise to replace the fish food. I suggested something stronger than that, like at least two bags, and get them pronto. They're trying to find a good local dealer, but will ship them from the plant, if need be.
You guys please post as you hear more. I'd like to see this resolved as soon as possible...if you don't hear by Monday, send me a pm.


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Bob,
The local Coop in Fayetteville, AR transferred two bags from their Mena store. I got one of them. The other bag is likely the same, and probably should be recalled. Most people probably would not even know that the product was wrong. The other guy on the forum got his two bags in Illinois, mine came from SW Arkansas. Due to the widely separated locations, could the problem be more widespread than Purina thinks?

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This is what a commitment to endorse a product looks like. I have never seen any other spokesman for a product personally intervene like this, let alone get results.

It's not like LeBron James is gonna look into it if I buy a lemon pair of shoes, but Bob Lusk will back his brand with real action. It's just so refreshing to see it in this day & age. Well done, Bob.

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John, now why did you have to bring my beloved SW Arkansas into this!?!? LOL. J/K. Hope you get your new feed soon. Seems like when it rains it pours...you've had a tough year seems like. Hope things get to looking up for you and your pond!

Bob, glad you are here and are so proactive on all of our behalves! Its nice to know you have good folks in high places in your corner.


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Purina is going to ship me two bags of MVP directly, since it is a special order from my local Purina Dealer (they don't stock Purina fish foods). I will have to continue to special order it next year if I want to keep getting it.

I appreciate it that a manufacturer will step up and make things right. Thanks to Bob for the help!

But, like I said, most casual users won't know any difference, so won't complain. A guy at the local feed store last year suggested I feed pig food instead of sinking catfish pellets they didn't have because "it's probably good enough to work". People are so misinformed, even sellers.

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Originally Posted By: sprkplug

Low cost, easily obtainable 32% will grow some pretty good fish...speed costs money, how fast do we want to go.


According to experienced people on here, BG won't gain a lot by eating 32% catfish pellets. They don't metabolize corn based foods like CC do. Higher protein, fish meal based foods are much better metabolized by BG. That's why I bought the AquaMax MVP. I have never caught a one pound BG. Those are very, very rare around this area. I would like to finally catch one.

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There are definitely some better feeds out there, but one pound bluegills are easily obtainable on 32%. Is it the best choice? No, but it will do the trick. I now have several one pound + BG in our catfish pond, where I feed 32%.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Purina is going to ship me two bags of MVP directly, since it is a special order from my local Purina Dealer (they don't stock Purina fish foods). I will have to continue to special order it next year if I want to keep getting it.

I appreciate it that a manufacturer will step up and make things right. Thanks to Bob for the help!

But, like I said, most casual users won't know any difference, so won't complain. A guy at the local feed store last year suggested I feed pig food instead of sinking catfish pellets they didn't have because "it's probably good enough to work". People are so misinformed, even sellers.



John, is it a case of them being unable to get it, or unwilling to order it? Just curious, as I've heard that any Purina Dealer can order any Purina product.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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sprkplug,
For our local dealers, it's a special order. If it's not in stock at the distributor the week of the order, it gets cancelled, and has to be followed up on, and reordered every week until it comes into stock. They don't follow up very well unless you call them every week and ask and keep on their case. I don't like doing that. We'll see what happens next spring. I should have enough for this year when the actual MVP (replacement) comes in. It's $42 per 50 pound bag with tax. The Optimal is $62.50 for 50 pounds ($50 per 40 pound bag). Catfish pellets are $19.34 per 50 pound bag including tax.

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Thanks John, I figured as much. I'm glad they're going to get the correct feed to you.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
Purina is going to ship me two bags of MVP directly, since it is a special order from my local Purina Dealer (they don't stock Purina fish foods). I will have to continue to special order it next year if I want to keep getting it.

I appreciate it that a manufacturer will step up and make things right. Thanks to Bob for the help!

But, like I said, most casual users won't know any difference, so won't complain. A guy at the local feed store last year suggested I feed pig food instead of sinking catfish pellets they didn't have because "it's probably good enough to work". People are so misinformed, even sellers.



John I think casual users would never order it in the first place. So if they were un-casual enough to order it (over what usually sits on local farm store shelves), I suspect they would notice it not being multiple sizes.

At any rate glad Purina is making it right.


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After following this thread throughout I realize how lucky I am. I have a Purina dealer 20 miles away and he keeps on hand most of the AM feeds all the time. If he would run out he has more within a week. It is kept fresh and the right stuff is in the bags.They have a pond management meeting every spring which is attended by more then a hundred pond owners. I have been very happy with the results.

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Yes, some stores do keep AquaMax feeds in stock. But, not in a 60-100 mile radius of here. There are lots of ponds around here, but the agriculture is primarily related to raising livestock on smaller places. Not many use their ponds for any meaningful fish production, but primarily for watering of stock. Many, if not most, that are stocked are bucket stocked. I guess that may drive the stocking of feeds.

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UPDATE: Just got off the phone with Dr. Mike Schlegel from Purina. We talked about the MVP mix up at the plant. He is located at a Purina plant near me....just outside of St. Louis.

I told him my fish ate the catfish pellets just fine. Also, the bag of AM MVP I picked up last week was opened on Wednesday and contained the right chow. That will carry me through the end of the season.

I have to say I am very pleased with Purina's customer service. I was on a fishing trip for a handful of days last week and had zero cell coverage. When I returned home yesterday I saw that Dr. Schlegel had tried to call me twice and left messages both times.

Dr. Schlegel is mailing a voucher to me for a bag of MVP to make up for the error. A quick response and a quick solution is what I call quality customer service. He also told me he would be manning the Purina booth at the upcoming PB conference. I am looking forward to introducing myself.

The bottom line is this was resolved quickly and the customer (me) is happy. Thanks to John and Bob for the extra help. BM61.


Last edited by bassmaster61; 09/18/17 03:26 PM.

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J
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J
Joined: Oct 2015
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The replacement food arrived today, and it appears to be the correct food. It's much darker than the bag I got a few weeks ago, has several different sizes, and smells richer in fish meal.

Many thanks to Dr Mike Schlegel and Mr Bob Lusk for getting this resolved in a timely manner! Also, thanks to Bassmaster61 for your helpful input!

Joined: Nov 2016
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V
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V
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Purina seems to be having more and more issues. Last year got one bag with small worms in it. This spring got two bags of AM Largemouth soaked through with oil. The rep claimed this was normal.

Last two bags of MVP have been in a generic white bag. Feed store writes Aquamax on it with a sharpie.

This week they No Shipped my feed store. I've been out of MVP for over a week. Friday delivery of 4 bags plus one Largemouth didn't happen.
No warning. Apparently the problems are across many feed lines, not just aquaculture products.

I understand they are owned by Land of Lakes. Maybe they don't know what side of the bread to butter?

Are y'all seeing similar problems in other parts of the country?

Is it time to abandon ship and go with Cargill or Optimal?


4 acre pond 32 ft deep within East Texas (Livingston) timber ranch. Filled (to the top of an almost finished dam) by Hurricane Harvey 9/17. Stocked with FHM, CNBG, RES 10/17. Added 35lbs RSC 3/18. 400 N LMB fingerlings 6/18
Joined: Feb 2015
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J
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J
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 186
My Co-Op didn't receive their order last week and then when it did come in (MVP) it was also in a generic white bag like yours was. The tag was correct and the food was fine, just in a plain white bag for whatever reason.

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