Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Wildlife Management Trail cam pics

I read that it has a sticker type seed head. What do you have on what you have grown? There are a lot of different types of sainfoin. Would not want anymore types of plants that fill your clothes with stickers.

Mine has never produced anything with stickers and I have never heard that about Sainfoin before. It is a comparatively large seed pod which makes it a little more difficult to plant than tiny seeds like clover. It gets really pretty purple flowers. I have a combination of Eski and Rocky Mountain Remont.

The ONLY negative I have personally experienced with Sainfoin is it doesn't establish as fast as other things. The first two years mine looked kind of thin and unimpressive (could have been due to my very short growing season at 10,000' or the difficulties I had planting it). I reseeded it both years and I was almost ready to give up on it. Then I got up there this year and it has exploded and looks fantastic.

I have also sucessfully used 24DB on it and it did fine. I have also used 24DB mixed with a half rate of round up and it did ok. Set it back a little but it didn't die.

I officially love the stuff.

I am planting cereal rye deer plots in the next couple weeks. Deer love it and seed is cheap. Big deer don't usually show for a couple weeks. Shot a 163" deer for my first ever last year. This is the best on camera so far. May be hard to pass if he walks by.

Giant 8 pointers are hard to beat in my book! He's a nice one!!

I am not familiar with the Sainfoin, but I am glad for you. To have something that attracts and or helps to feed is a good thing. I love to watch the food plots from a distance. Right now the deer at my place are feeding on some of the Eagle Brand Soybeans, Iron Clay Peas and Sun hemp along with the native stuff. Late Sept I will add Winter wheat, Ebon Rye and bump up my Clover plots with some light seeding. The deer use the Clover mostly in early spring, when not much else is out there. Before the spring native forbs and such have started up.

WBJ, when I found some Mt Lion tracks on the place a few yrs ago, it was a little spooky walking to the tree stands early morning and late evening because I carried a bow. I am no quick draw, when it comes to a bow, and am not sure I could hit a darn thing, if the big cat was in a stand off with me. Texas laws at that time did not allow one to carry a gun during bow season. Laws have now changed. And KWF, THAT is a Nice One for sure.

Tracy I tried to do a spring food plot with the iron clay peas and they came up . Even planting 4 acres the dear ate them to the ground in 3 days before they could get a foothold. There would be 25 does in the field at a time. How did you manage to get them up?

Those Eagle Brand indeterminate soybeans sure do work well.

Burned the food plot today in preparation for planting. Pulled the camera watching the mineral block and that 8 is there a lot.

He looks to be 3 1/2 or better years old, based on his neck and belly and body. Definitely a shooter for me... Hope you see him this fall!

Look at the 2 pictures. See how the gap between the tips of the main beams has shrunk, even though the pictures are approx. 30 days apart. Antlers sure do grow fast!!

I would probably regret it, but I wouldn't shoot him. I'd want to see what he looked like next year!

To each his own but I'd rather see him licking a mineral block than stuffed into a sausage casing. Maybe it's an ageing thing, but why end the life an animal of such beauty?

Pat, I have to put all the spring, summer plots behind elec. fencing until it reaches waist high, or like you I will have no plants after they pop up out of the dirt. I usually plant all by April 1st and by June 1st the plants are thick and high when I let down the e fence. That way the food is there for them when the does are nursing and the bucks are growing antlers. And as u know July and August is a time of stress on the deer during those hot summer months, esp during drought years. After years of food plotting and learning, the above mentioned seeds work the best for me at my place for yr round food plots. It's not cheap and it takes some time and effort, but I think it is worth it all for the benefits.

WBJ. I hear ya and Dr Luke, he looks young to me also and again Nice Buck with some nice mass and length

Me too. I have never understood the allure or the wisdom in trophy kills. I don't eat my biggest male bluegills. But I agree, to each his own.

Throwing back a trophy buck doesn't work very well. We live in farm country so the big bucks taste just fine here if properly shot. We don't blend our venison. The trick to good venison is to remove all connective tissue leaving just red meat, which is quite tasty and not "gamey" but a lot of work. Mature deer are fine to eat and present a much greater challenge than shooting yearlings or fawns. One can fill the freezer just fine with mature deer once one gets good at hunting. I shot a lot of young deer years ago, but now I enjoy the greater challenge of hunting mature animals. Most hunters could buy meat much cheaper than hunting it, even if they spent the same amount of time working for minimum wage.

Like RAH, hunting the mature buck is a greater challenge. And bow hunting for me, makes it a hunt and not a shooting event. For me, I have let many 3 yr olds walk while bow hunting, its the older ones that are not so easy. They are mostly nocturnal and are real smart until they get sex on their mind. Like man, that will get them into trouble.

I too bow hunt, but a gun is so much easier! I shot my biggest bow buck from 15 feet away (from a stand), and he was chasing. I actually switched stands as I saw a pair of bucks chasing a doe through a harvested field a over a half mile away. I did not even have time to nock the arrow when the trio came by, but fortunately he hesitated close by. I stalked my biggest gun buck while he was bedded (till 20 yards away). He was tired.

We have this same conversation nearly every year, and the same questions are asked each time. So I'll start off with my usual query:

Is it necessary to actually kill the trophy buck? Remember a year or two ago when I asked about future, sci-fi hunting weapon advancements that might allow one to just stun the animal? Knock it down, take some photos, measurements for a replica, then watch it get up and walk away....kinda like throwing back that trophy BG, huh?

RAH claims it's cheaper to buy meat, so let's assume that's true. In that case we don't need to eat the trophy buck, so that eliminates that as a reason for killing it.

That leaves me with asking the hard question. As hunters, do we need to see blood in order to gain satisfaction from the hunt? Be honest, Is it really about food, or genetic improvement, or curbing overpopulation issues, or is it actually about stroking our egos, everytime we look up at those antlers hanging on the wall?

Keep in mind that I'm a hunter myself, and I have no problem with others killing deer...none whatsoever. I'm just convinced that the real reason for killing a trophy deer, any trophy animal actually, is too often obscured underneath a cause deemed more noble.

Sports are about competition and challenge. I eat deer because I hunt.
I don't hunt for meat (I actually prefer fish). We also give a lot away. The greater benefit is deer control. I take nearly my doe limit every year. If you ever run into a deer with your vehicle, you'll appreciate the deer herd control.

Okay, let's run with that. If I'm understanding you correctly, you consider deer hunting a sport, complete with competition. But competition with whom? The trophy deer itself, or other hunters? You eat trophy deer meat because you hunt, and you give away what you cannot eat yourself. I totally agree with that philosophy. But we agree that eating the trophy deer is most certainly not your primary reason for killing a trophy buck, correct?

You also mention deer control, and the need for me to be appreciative of hunters' efforts to reduce their numbers in order to reduce auto accidents. By that same reasoning, am I therefore justified in chastising those who plant food plots, and manage their resources in order to improve habitat? More food and additional habitat = more deer, right? More deer = more chances for me to plow one with the pickup, right? If population reduction is the legitimate reason for killing trophy deer, then why spend time and money encouraging an increase in their numbers?

Something doesn't quite add up here. Again, I'm all for shooting a deer. I just gave another neighbor and his young son permission to hunt on me this fall. That brings the number of hunters in my woods to 4 this season. I'm just advocating for honesty regarding trophy hunting. There really needs to be blood, doesn't there? We can tiptoe around it year after year, but the real, actual, honest reason may not be quite so noble after all.

Sport or hobby, one tries to improve the taking of higher quality deer. Food plots increase deer quality. Hunt-free parks get overrun with starving deer as all the young trees and shrubs get devastated. Google quality deer management. taking a lot of does decreases the herd and improves the quality of the herd at the same time by making bucks compete. And yes hunting involves killing the deer, which was something I had to get used to. Its still my least favorite part. Its OK if you don't get trophy hunting, but I see no problem with it. Why take babies unless you cannot get mature deer?

Hold on, I think I see an important difference here. First, I also have no problem with killing does. And yes, hunting deer usually involves killing deer, at least right now. But I'm not talking about killing deer, I'm talking about deliberately killing trophy deer...that's the part where I can't seem to get a straight answer. You can reduce deer numbers AND put food in the freezer by killing does.

Why, why deliberately kill the biggest and the best bucks??? You're skipping over the all important distinctions between killing deer, killing mature deer, and killing trophy deer.

What is your reason for wanting to kill the biggest, bestest deer? We've established that it isn't food or population control, as taking numbers of does will accomplish that, so what's left?

Trophy deer leave you with a trophy (antlers), just like those that mount a large bass. What would you do if a 200-class deer came in under your stand? Trophy hunters are simply willing to wait for a trophy buck and maybe harvest no buck at all if the right one does not appear.