Jim, I'm enjoying reading your posts. My problem, and I suspect the problem of other members also, lies in figuring out how to ratchet down your level of intensity to something approachable, applicable, and manageable in a backyard farm pond.
I'm sure there's a goldmine of info in there, I just need to figure out how to peel off a couple tough, outer layers of commercial aquaculture in order to get down to the delicious, tender pondmeister center.
I see. Focus will then be on feeding regimen and things relating to behavior. Peachtree's interest in outcome is in part due to behavior.
Last edited by Jim Wetzel; 08/17/1709:05 PM.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
I need to look back to see if they reared fish in ponds or not. That makes a huge difference. In a pond setting, as stock density increases relative to what the forage base provides, the feed quality becomes more important as you approach the feedlot state. At low stocking densities you can have feed being more impactful by simply improving productivity and quality of forage base. [/quote]
Above should be directly in line.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
I will put this very informative thread about bluegill, green sunfish and hybrid bluegill (HBG) in the archives under 3 respective topics: Growing Some Big Bluegill Common pond fish primer (sunfish edition) – Green Sunfish section Hybrid Bluegill –HBG
Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/18/1709:40 AM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
I really, really do not like how they got the Bantam Sunfish and GSF as closest kin. I work with both a lot plus played a lot with most of the others in the genus. The Bantam Sunfish based on a lot of things I think should either be more closely allied with Enneacanthus or equally related to Lepomis and Enneacanthus. If Bantam's closest if the GSF, I am a monkeys uncle.
Flier also more like an intermediate between the rockbasses and crappies.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
Two things I think need to be to improve upon that study. First, look at multiple nuclear loci plus mitochondrial DNA. Secondly, BG from multiple wild sources so as include multiple CNBG stocks, NBG from the the Mississippi Drainage, NBG from the Mobile River Drainage, HpBG's, and BG from the northern part of their range on the eastern seaboard.
I predict the BG will all of a sudden by diverse like Cutthhroat Trout out west.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
That replaces the same chart posted here years ago but lost due to photo bucket. It is not new and notes that methods are evolving and not a final analysis. The big change in the last 20 years in many fields is the ability to isolate and measure things in much smaller amounts.
And more loci faster. They are on the verge of comparing entire genomes.
Paper above would have benefited from better sampling regardless of technique used in the lab. Then part of my problem would have been resolved.
I think the Bluegill should be split into at least three species. Currently that not being case benefits my work but we may need to stop moving things around.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
I am familiar with latter paper as well. Table by itself hard to make sense of without balance of paper. Some of the viability of crosses between species that are not closely related may be impacted by ploidy issues. You should look at effort to make intergeneric hybrids in sunfishes. Hybrids to my eyes as photographed do not look look intermediate.
I have done some Frankenfish action, with later efforts to follow up on paper above, and got really poor hatch when going between genera. For me that was useless because adult are what I wanted to mess with. Very few of the hybrids survived into the larval stage, then you had a lot of hoppers that died as juveniles. When you have to fertilize a couple hundred thousand eggs to get 3 fish large enough to see what they look like, the effort is not worth it.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
The point in the chart for purposes of posting here are the last 3 columns and the concept that reciprocal crosses can be very different. Only a few here are into the ins and outs of genetic theory and practice. We both know that there is a lot out there and it often is contradictory and or confusing for many reasons. Dave Willis and I once tracked down some of the authors of peer reviewed studies on BG/GSF/HBG that had differing results and at the end we came to the conclusion that some of the difference was due to some of the GSF stock not being pure. Even the authors had no answers other than variation.
Argument we have is that purity is not all that important when even the pure stocks can vary. Plus, considerations in the source hatchery and grading can make a huge difference. Fast growers and slow growers establish their patterns early. Using fish from extremes can mess up the search for understanding.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri