Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Green Sunfish vs Bluegill

That info is from the Fisheries Science Dept of Va Tech. It also is comparable to the info at Fish Base , AFS book on Bluegill Biology and Handbook of Freshwater Fishery Biology, Life History Data on Centrarchid Fishes of the United... by Carlander on the species. those numbers are yearly egg totals. All the info I have seen indicates that BG have a substantial reproductive advantage over GSF.

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I see no reason to worry about GSF. They spawn annually and BG/CNBG spawn multiple times. Their fusiform shape makes them more vulnerable to predation than other sunfish.

I have what I consider a forage pond with BG and GSF. It ranges, depending on weather, from 1/8 to 3/8 acre. When I seine and add the results to my larger pond, I don't hesitate to add them along with the BG. Due to predation, I very rarely catch one. When I do, I know it. They out fight a BG every time.

According to Lusk, 99.5% of all fish that are spawned in a pond(not a hatchery) don't survive to be one year old. So, what's the big deal?

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A lot of great info here guys. Thanks for taking the time to educate us pondmeisters without the formal education that you guys have.

Ok who's right here? Do GSF spawn more than once down south? Or could it be that individuals spawn once over 2 separate spawns? I don't know, I'm no GSF spawning expert but maybe someone can explain why we are disagreeing.

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I would love to know this also. All I do know is that I see beds all summer around my pond and I believe they are GSF. I would love to think they were BG, but you can see the yellow border around the fins from the bank. I bet it is forum motto.."It all depends". Which probably couldn't be truer. My BOW is probably different than another one a mile or so down the road...much less states different. So many factors.

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Because many sunfish can , depending on location and other factors, spawn more than once a year , and some do , the number of spawns is not critical. The best measure of fecundity (reproductive capacity)is the number of eggs produced by an average female over a year. That is why Fisheries Scientists use that measure in their work. See the prior post which noted the numbers for GSF and BG. A direct answer is in most US locations BG have multiple spawns. The further north the fewer in number of spawns. IMO this is due to weather- photoperiod and temps are at their best over a shorter spring/summer period. GSF have been noted in some locations to spawn more than once but I have seen no data indicating that they spawn 4-10 times like BG do in most southern locations.

FYI there are threads here on "Rolling spawns" that cover much of this in detail. Here is one http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post127721

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I've never been shy on here when it comes to asking the uncomfortable questions, so I'll pose the one that's on everyone's mind: who are you, again? I'm not trying to stir things up, it's just that your post count is low, and very recent. You certainly came on strong here as of late, so maybe it would help bolster your case if the impressive vocabulary also contained a few specific credentials, and less ego?

I'm of the opinion that you may well be correct, but " Because I said so", won't carry much weight around here.

Not everyone is familiar with or knows about this forum. Some new members will always be arriving and some members leaving. The problem with forum 'labels' is one does not know who is actually on the "other end". If you look at the profile for Centrarchid, one will see that he is an instructor (Professor) of Aquaculture in Missouri. For one to be a full Professor, as opposed to an assistant or associate professor, they have earned tenure and normally have to have published papers, and be regularly publishing in professional journals. I am sure that Centrarchid will send you his professional resume if asked.

As a moderator, I apologize for doubtful behavior of some of the members due to the fact the forum often gets participants that make unusual or unproven claims without verified evidence. Speaking as a moderator, this forum prides itself as providing accurate information about pond management topics. By far we are not all knowing. We try to dismiss wives tales, myths, and try to separate facts from fiction. Most of our basic knowledge or facts come from information published in peer reviewed journals and fishery books. Thus without data as a backup for statements that appear contrary, some members will be naturally questioning new information that does not agree with published literature. I had to deal with some of these same doubts, when I wrote articles in PBoss magazine about smallmouth bass being able to survive well in warm water ponds and southern ponds.

As far as publishing the new information about frequency of GSF spawning one could start by putting a technical note; in Fisheries Magazine, The North American Journal of Aquaculture or better yet, get one or two of your students or you put together a short article with a couple picture or some data (1200-2500 words) for Pond Boss magazine about spawning habits of green sunfish or several of the common sunfishes. It would be a good way to get one of your students with an article in print. Dr. Wes Neal (Assoc Prof Mississippi State), Dr. Brian Graeb Assoc Prof at South Dakota State and some of their students regularly have articles in Pond Boss magazine. Previously Dr. David Willis Professor SDSU until his untimely death with occasionally a student wrote articles for each issue of PBoss magazine. Dr Claude Boyd regularly has an article about water chemistry in each PBoss issue. We welcome all new authors of fishery and pond management articles at Pond Boss magazine to keep readers up-to-date about fish raising information, especially new ideas and data.

Well said guys. I shouldn't make blanket statements about fish behavior. We have often said that all ponds are different. Also, location matters a lot. I have often said that I have very limited knowledge about fish behavior in more Northern climates. I know quite a bit about what happens, or generally happens, around my area. But everything changes when we go from West Texas to East Texas. Having a curious nature, I've killed a lot of fish when I start wondering what would happen if..... But that doesn't mean much when the location, climate, soils are different.

I've studied and read a lot about GSF. I like those mutts. Generally, GSF spawn once per year. However, how about the GSF that spawns with a BG and it's progeny re spawn with BG or CNBG? At what point, generations later, does the GSF traits weaken and spawning becomes more often? I don't know and haven't seen any University or peer reviewed studies about it.

Dave, that's exactly the reason behind my current ponds/fish philosophy. I used to think there were at least a few unshakable cornerstones of aquatic management, with our usual "it depends" filling in most everything else. Now I've decided that I know better, and "it depends" actually applies to every single aspect, with the possible exception that liquid water is wet.

That's why my advice these days is to take all advice with a grain of salt. No one will know your pond, your fish, your situation as well as you do. Listen to the pros, then balance their advice with your own observations. There are no constants, only variables.

Looks like we have lost Centrarchid, Hopefully only temporarily! I have enjoyed his recent participation.

Was wondering who this guy is, his profile is blank. I could tell he is intelligent and knows a lot but maybe not so much on how to present it without looking .... well you know. The pond boss saying it "depends " really does !

This is my opinion: If you have the credentials to be an authority on a subject in a forum, then you should use your real name, otherwise those credentials could be made up, at least in the minds of some readers. On other forums (on different subjects) I have been on, those highly credentialed people in the field would always use real names.

I have always enjoyed this forum much more than others I have been a part of because of the maturity levels here on PB. No name calling, bashing, hazing, cutting down, or intentional hair raising - Just good ole' conversations. Some joking goes on between closer members and we all laugh. This forum does not require thick skin to be a member, but I guess you still need some skin to handle some of the disagreements.

EDIT: Sorry Peach for contributing to the highjack!

Get it back on track.

Outcomes of competition between these two sunfishes is not just about reproductive output. It is also a function of direct competition and relative abilities of the two species to deal with their environment.

Post #1.

Welcome Jim to the forum jump in and have fun

Jim Wetzel
Associate Professor of Aquaculture
Lincoln University of Missouri
2006 – Present (11 years)
Research and teaching of Aquaculture

Education

Southern Illinois University, Carbondale Purdue
Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.), Zoology/Animal Biology
1995 – 2004

Purdue University
Master's degree, Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences
1990 – 1993

Welcome aboard and we appreciate you are here!

We look forward to hearing more about this topic

Welcome Dr. Wetzel.

Have there been any studies/research done on this topic? It seems like it may be hard to accurately research but I would be interested in reading any research relating to this topic.

Jim Wetzel = Centrarchid

Information above not up to date nor relevant to quality of what is posted.

Post #2, getting smarter