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#478086 - 08/12/17 06:34 PM Green Sunfish vs Bluegill
peachgrower Online   content


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 313
Loc: Nashville, AR
I was afraid to high jack another thread so starting this one. Dragon got me thinking about the spawning habits of my GSF. Here is the story, we built this pond year ago, it never held water. Fixed it twice and we started holding water in about 2014. It did okay, but never really filled...up and down up and down. Early 2016 I find pondboss. We had never stocked the pond, but my boys had thrown some bucket fish into it. Many out of a creek. I joined and lurked around a bit, looking at ways to fix the leaky pond, learning what all we did wrong and nearly threw my hands in the air. lol. Finally fiddled around enough until the pond now holds water fairly well. Last July (2016)we stocked (yes it was hot but truck was here and I didn't know better yet mad ) 25LMB, 200BG, 50RES, 10#FHM, and a carp. I also got some optimal feed that I was throwing out twice a day. Rocked on until around sept or oct thought we would see if we could catch something. Started catching all these little sunfish. I was like, MAN look at the bellies on these guys! They are tearing up the feed. So I posted pics, they were GREEN SUNFISH. So I begin studying all about them. Scares me to death thinking all my newly stocked fish would become GSF poo, so I went to my uncles pond and catch 10 LMB ranging from 8-12", to battle the GSF. I also engage in catch and remove all the GSF possible. My kids know a GSF at 100 yards now. lol.

Fast fwd to today. We now have at least 10 very fat healthy LMB that I have caught 3 of at this point and have been very impressed. We still have who knows how many GSF...we have embraced them now, we have caught I know two that were in the 10" range. I know I have YOY bass. The GSF range from fingerling to a few large ones. As I said in the other post the BG probably get caught 1 for every 15 GSF...maybe. Never caught one of the RES, but that doesn't surprise me anyways. I know there are some healthy BG because the ones we have caught were very nice and healthy. I think we have caught 4 this year.

My goal was to have a balanced fishery with some decent BG but not trophies...but I wanted quite a few 5-7lbs LMB. Not going for a trophy pond..but one that a young kid can catch a fish he or she will remember. Does that make sense?

Now to the questions from the other thread...

ewest...I do not have a seine but that might be possible...I would have to learn about that before trying it or buying the net...I'm sure they aren't cheap and I'm counting myself lucky right now to get to purchase some AM500 for my DIY feeder up from the TSC I was feeding. lol Do you mean the walking type or throwing? If I was to add 50-100 adults would they for the most part to themselves?? I have never thought about the BG and GSF keeping to themselves...I guess I always figured the sunfish would enter mingle if in the same BOW.

John, when you say adult are you meaning in the 6" range? Can those be purchased in Arkansas from the truck if you arrange it or would I need to go to a hatchery? I would really like to do that as I love BG...just want to make for sure before trying to spend money on them.

Farmallsc I feel your pain. Feel free to tell your GSF story on this thread. I would love to hear everyones stories about them. My kids love catching them. I wish I could go back and maybe hold off on putting the 10 LMB in last year...they were skinny from a gravel pit and have done VERY well. lol. I know I have removed at least 5 GSF people would be impressed with on here. No telling how large I could get them feeding and not having the larger predators.

So thats my GSF story. Hope it all made sense..it was kind of long and I'm sure my thoughts were kind of all over the place.
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#478087 - 08/12/17 06:58 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2065
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Peach
When you are given lemons make lemonade! I reall don't think they are that bad. I have warmouth in my pond.....no problem that I can see.

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#478089 - 08/12/17 08:01 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
ThePondDragon Online   content


Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 120
Loc: Wisconsin
Peach you weren't doing any damage, I was just using that thread to post my BG fry pictures. I can't wait to see how my pond advances in regards to BG vs GSF vs PS.
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1/2 acre pond stocked October 2016, LMB, BG/SF, CC.

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#478093 - 08/12/17 08:58 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1360
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: peachgrower

John, when you say adult are you meaning in the 6" range? Can those be purchased in Arkansas from the truck if you arrange it or would I need to go to a hatchery? I would really like to do that as I love BG...just want to make for sure before trying to spend money on them.


Peachgrower,
I caught 30 or so 5-7" adult BG from a neighbor's 1/8 acre BG only pond and bucket stocked them in December 2015, about 2-1/2 months after my initial stocking of 150 or so 1.5" CNBG and RES from the fish truck. The adults spawned prolifically in early 2016. The males spawned with the CNBG females in late summer 2016. I had so many BG and FHM this early summer that I had to catch and stock five bass 5" to 8".

The adult stockers became pellet trained spring 2016, and are now as big as any BG I have seen around this area. The CNBG are around 7-8 inches, and nearly round in shape.

Been feeding them Optimal BG and BG Jr.

I found out that CC prefer pellets over BG, and won't control them, or FHM.
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#478105 - 08/12/17 10:13 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18802
Loc: Miss.
Survey seine nets are not expensive. You can get 2 20' by 4 ft seine nets at WalMart and zip-tie them into one 40' net. Seine surveys are easy to do. Every pond owner should learn how and use them to gather info.

Most lepomis (sunfish) species try to segregate. They each have breeding traits and cues that tend to separate them apart.


Edited by ewest (08/12/17 10:16 PM)
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#478106 - 08/12/17 10:18 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1360
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Seines tend to hang up on structure most of us put in our ponds. Mine would be a nightmare to seine with the culverts, rock and brick piles, and brush in it. Besides, it's 11 ft deep at full pool. How would you seine that even without obstructions?


Edited by John F (08/12/17 10:23 PM)
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#478109 - 08/13/17 04:15 AM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
farmallsc Offline


Registered: 02/09/17
Posts: 391
Loc: Central Texas
My story begins in earnest this past February. This land has been in the family several decades. The pond used to be an old gin tank. Thinking there were no fish in it, I stocked FHM, BG, Res, and CC, then 3 months later I stocked Tilapia. We hand fed them and they would bubble the water. Me and Mom well we don't see all that well, so wife comes down while we are feeding and takes pictures and video. Not knowing any better, we thought those fish we stocked had grown great! Showed the pictures here and rut-row, what we had coming to eat was GSF! We started fishing and sure enough we had some whoppers! I'd have to look back in my thread, but I had several nice sized ones, I think I caught somewhere around 40 of them in sizes 8"-11".

Fast Forward to present, We fished this week and caught CC, and several GSF in the 3"-4" range, but nothing larger. I'm hopeful a few BG survived, but deep down, I really doubt it.

I have embraced the GSF, they are a blast to catch.
_________________________
1/2 to 7/8 acre stocked 2-11-17 with FHM, OTS CNBG, RES, and CC. With pre-existing GSF.

Fe Fi Fo Fum
I love Catfish
Gonna raise me some!

My pond thread

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#478114 - 08/13/17 09:10 AM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 93
Loc: .
.


Edited by Centrarchid (08/15/17 11:49 PM)

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#478117 - 08/13/17 12:09 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18802
Loc: Miss.
John F it is a seine survey. You only seine a small part of the shoreline of the pond. See this info from MS pond mgt.at pg 16

http://extension.msstate.edu/sites/default/files/publications/publications/p1428_0.pdf


Edited by ewest (08/13/17 12:13 PM)
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#478119 - 08/13/17 12:34 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: ewest]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1360
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: ewest
John F it is a seine survey. You only seine a small part of the shoreline of the pond. See this info from MS pond mgt.at pg 16


Sorry.
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#478121 - 08/13/17 12:48 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18802
Loc: Miss.
No need to say "sorry". We all start with no knowledge and learn from there. I did ! Many on here don't know about that either and I hope they read and learn how as its a valuable , inexpensive fun tool to use. Keep asking questions. cool
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#478124 - 08/13/17 12:59 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: ewest]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2065
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
There ain't a dumb question especially in our pond boss family! Well said Ewest

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#478140 - 08/13/17 04:23 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
peachgrower Online   content


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 313
Loc: Nashville, AR
ewest, will be looking into the seine now. Haven't been able to look at the MSU publication yet but will. I never knew about taking a simple survey. That would be very interesting and fun. The kids would really enjoy that. Might be a good how-to thread!

Centrarchid, I guess we all start with dreams of pure strain fish that are big and healthy, whatever species they might be. I have just read horror stories of GSF taking over and out competing LMB for forage. My forage was to be BG. As I have learned, I have looked back at ALL my mistakes I have made with this pond...oh such a list. There isn't any going back now. Just trying to learn what I can about the two...GSF and BG to try to push back more towards the BG and away from the bucket stocked GSF. I know from what I have learned "it all depends"...but I learn a little more everyday thanks to the great folks here! Sorry a little longer than 50 words.


Pat, I'm making lots of lemonade! lol


Question for all with GSF and BG or information about them. Do you seem to have beds around your pond nearly all summer with GSF all over them? The beds are in very shallow water...and seem to be there for nearly a week, then a day or so without then more beds. This goes on all summer.

Thanks again!
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#478146 - 08/13/17 04:58 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 93
Loc: .
.


Edited by Centrarchid (08/15/17 11:50 PM)

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#478159 - 08/13/17 10:48 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3998
Loc: SE Kansas
Here is a link to my GSF story.
100% GSF
For what it is worth, by adding some adult BG (3-7" range over a year or so) caught from my main pond, that pond is completely turned around as far as I am concerned. Fished it just a little bit tonight. Has good BG population and growth now but still easy to catch a small GSF close to the edge. The small greenies seem to hug the bank and any cover with only an occasional adult size GSF caught out in deeper water. Of the larger keeper size fish, 9 out of ten catches will be either BG or BG/GSF hybrid and I catch maybe 2 out of that 9 being hybrid BG. Which I also like a lot.

And here is another persons.
Green Sunfish


Edited by snrub (08/13/17 10:49 PM)
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snrub

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#478160 - 08/13/17 10:59 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
peachgrower Online   content


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 313
Loc: Nashville, AR
Centrarchid, you described my pond to a tee. I have a very expansive shallow area...probably 3/5th of the pond is between 2-4ft..then drops to probably 8-10 all the way across the levee. I have to get some good measurements soon while its up close to full pool. I have some man made structure, sunken truck tires, a couple cedar trees, a few stacks of pallets but nothing substantial like some. The funny thing about my GSF is I catch them everywhere...they love the shallows but you would not think they were worried to much about predators.

I'm really interested in both BG and GSF spawning habits. I have seen pictures of many beds and mine just have a different look to them. They are very dissimilar in size which I would assume was relative to the size of the fish?? They clean the spot very well, but are not always circular. I have read that GSF spawn once a year...is this true? Since I have these beds in inches of water and very close to shore I would think they were GSF. But I know that BG spawn continually until cool weather. I really need to get a siene net like ewest talked about.

With my goal of more BG and knowing about how GSF are with juvenile BG, am I on the right track by waiting until next year to give the LMB a little more time to work on the GSF then adding another 100 adult BG maybe next spring?

Thanks everyone. I really am enjoying this topic.

Edit: Hey snrub, I have read yours multiple times and the other. So that plan worked for you? That gives me hope. I really don't have a problem with them like I did, but for the goals I have, they just don't really fit. When you say added some over a year a so...about how many do you think? Just as you caught them or a good sized number each time? When your GSF were so prevalent what did the beds look like? Did they line shores all summer long? Some of mine even seem to merge into two or three. Mine do not really make a hole because I have so much gravel. Would it help the BG out if I made a sand spawning zone? I might could do that.

Thanks again!


Edited by peachgrower (08/13/17 11:08 PM)
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#478161 - 08/13/17 11:08 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3998
Loc: SE Kansas
Most of the time I can not see the beds in my ponds because I have too much of an algae bloom so the water is not clear enough. But for a while this spring it cleared up enough to see the most shallow beds and a few just beyond. The ones right near the bank, in only maybe 6-8" of water, were either GSF or BGxGSF hybrids. I could not see them well enough to see if they were pure or hybrids, but the yellow on the tips of the tails make the fish with GSF in them really stand out. I could see larger BG on nests in the next row in slightly deeper water and I do not know how much deeper the beds continued because I could not see in the deeper water.

So it appeared to me maybe the GSF spawned in shallower water than the BG, at least in this situation. This is the first year I have really noticed this area to have beds. I have at least a couple other areas of the pond I usually associate with spawning beds.
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snrub

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#478162 - 08/14/17 02:32 AM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 93
Loc: .
.


Edited by Centrarchid (08/15/17 11:50 PM)

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#478164 - 08/14/17 06:37 AM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6805
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Originally Posted By: peachgrower


Centrarchid, I guess we all start with dreams of pure strain fish


Well, maybe not all of us. wink
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#478186 - 08/14/17 12:20 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18802
Loc: Miss.
If you only put in limited #s of BG into a pond with established GSF then adding a few more adult BG is a good idea. It will insure that more adult BG are alive and spawning. Here is some info on fecundity (possible reproduction) of BG and GSF.

From Efish http://web1.cnre.vt.edu/efish/families/centrarchidae.html
BG
Reproductive Habits:
Mature at age 1 or 2
Spawning occurs May to September
Males build colonial nests in shallows on sand or gravel
Females spawn several times a year
Fecundity is about 80,000 eggs per female per year

GSF
Reproductive Habits:
Mature at age 1 or 3
Spawning occurs late May through July
Males build nests around vegetation
Fecundity is 2,000-10,000 eggs per female per year
Hybridizes with many other sunfish species

From the #s of eggs you can see why BG have a reproductive advantage.


Edited by ewest (08/14/17 12:25 PM)
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#478217 - 08/14/17 02:51 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 93
Loc: .
.


Edited by Centrarchid (08/15/17 11:51 PM)

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#478226 - 08/14/17 04:24 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
peachgrower Online   content


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 313
Loc: Nashville, AR
I'm not trying to start a debate...but I will say that I'm really enjoying reading from you all that are so knowledgeable with this. Every time I read more posts I understand more and more about what I am looking at when I walk to the pond.

So from what I have read there is the possibility that all the BG I stocked last July may or may not have spawned yet? I may not see any result from them until next year...unless the GSF eat all my YOY. Thats what worries me most.

sprkplug....soooo, what did your goal start as?? lol
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#478232 - 08/14/17 05:35 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 93
Loc: .
.


Edited by Centrarchid (08/15/17 11:51 PM)

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#478235 - 08/14/17 07:07 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
peachgrower Online   content


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 313
Loc: Nashville, AR
I guess I could take a seine sample to see? I'm just afraid with the numbers GSF I have, the number of YOY may be small. I will have to get one of these nets!
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#478241 - 08/14/17 09:19 PM Re: Green Sunfish vs Bluegill [Re: peachgrower]
Centrarchid Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 93
Loc: .
.


Edited by Centrarchid (08/15/17 11:52 PM)

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