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Joined: May 2014
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OP
Joined: May 2014
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After reading supreme pondmeister Bob Lusk's account of how he used crumble to feed YOY BG, I got some too. A call to Texas Hunter confirmed that it wouldn't cause mechanical problems, so put some in my feeders, especially those near CNBG beds. On the plus side, it hasn't hurt the TH feeder. Also, seems to have worked (along with new chara), as I'm seeing vastly more YOY fish, including 1/2 inchers! On the other hand, there's been some negatives. One, crumble attracts ants like crazy! It doesn't get blown far from the feeder, and often some falls around the feeder. Even a dock-based feeder ended up calling in the ant brigades to forage. Be prepared, it WILL happen! Two, when it gets humid, the crumble tends to cake. On several feeders we've found that they no longer throw feed, simply because the regular feed was literally glued together by crumble! Thorough mixing helps, but does not eliminate this problem. Overall, well worth the problems. Best to know the drawbacks in advance, though. Mr. Pondboss used feeders over the water that simply shook the crumble down, and now I know why...
Last edited by anthropic; 08/04/17 07:23 PM.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Might buy some very small fry feed (pellets) and mix some in with the regular feed.
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Joined: May 2014
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Joined: May 2014
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That sounds like a good idea. Crumble is very expensive, maybe I could also make a very small amount via an old coffee grinder, not enough to glue regular feed together. But if so, I NEVER want to mistakenly use that coffee grinder for coffee again! Or, better yet, this particular brew could be a hint to guests that their presence is required elsewhere...
Last edited by anthropic; 08/05/17 03:45 PM.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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That sounds like a good idea. Crumble is very expensive, maybe I could also make a very small amount via an old coffee grinder, not enough to glue regular feed together. Crumbel is typically higher in protein/fat than regular food to get the little bodies a good jump start on life....
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Joined: Sep 2014
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I am guessing here, Crumble is a fine cut of a brand named fish food? Or maybe it is a product from the feed maker that had a bunch of dust or fine particles and they found a way to market this waste product? And as far as using a coffee grinder, I have use one to make fines from my 1/8" Cargills 4512 for feeding FHM's in my sediment pond. I discovered the FHM's preferred the 1/8" over the fine cut. They seemed to make a game out of the small pellets, moving it all around and playing keep away from the others and would pretty much leave the grind size alone. And my TH feeder will throw some fine powder out when it throws out the Cargills 1/8 and 1/4". I think the spin plate will grind some up to make fine. Just asking why would one feed the crumble, I thought the small fry feed on the zooplankton in the pond?
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
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Are the feeders belt-feeders?
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168 |
I am guessing here, Crumble is a fine cut of a brand named fish food? Or maybe it is a product from the feed maker that had a bunch of dust or fine particles and they found a way to market this waste product? And as far as using a coffee grinder, I have use one to make fines from my 1/8" Cargills 4512 for feeding FHM's in my sediment pond. I discovered the FHM's preferred the 1/8" over the fine cut. They seemed to make a game out of the small pellets, moving it all around and playing keep away from the others and would pretty much leave the grind size alone. And my TH feeder will throw some fine powder out when it throws out the Cargills 1/8 and 1/4". I think the spin plate will grind some up to make fine. Just asking why would one feed the crumble, I thought the small fry feed on the zooplankton in the pond? The smaller crumble makes for a good supplement to the natural forages than can be limiting. Size also suitable for feed training phase the fish go through where they learn to consume non-living food items.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Joined: Oct 2014
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FWIW I mix a Skretting 1/8 inch (48%) in with my Optimal BG chow when I feed. The littlest guys seem to appreciate those tiny pellets....but I feed by hand and hydrate the chow.
Last edited by Bill D.; 08/05/17 07:49 AM.
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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I mix Cargill 1/8th and 3/16th sizes and have since the beginning with my TH feeder. It does send a little "dust" out as Tracy stated. After the pellets are all eaten schools of one inch bluegill can be seen all over the surface eating the dust. Look closely and you would be surprised how small a cnbg can eat a 1/8th size pellet!!
Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Open the links - here is starter and crumble feed. Pay close attention to the size of the feed! There are 25,400 microns in an inch. There are 25.4 mm in an inch. Optimal Starter feed Optimal #1 Crumble Optimal #2 Crumble Optimal #3 Crumble
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Thanks, Scott. I used a mix of Starter (#0 Crumble) and #1 Crumble. The Starter is what cakes more than the #1, I think. Didn't realize that Starter/Crumble was specially formulated for the needs of the little guys -- thought it was just smaller sized. While it is expensive per pound, it doesn't take many pounds to feed the 1/2 inch to 1 inch YOY. Maybe next year I'll get a shaker feeder on a pole near spawning area. That would solve the ant/caking issues.
Last edited by anthropic; 08/05/17 03:46 PM.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
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Thanks, Scott. I used a mix of Starter (#0 Crumble) and #1 Crumble. The Starter is what cakes more than the #1, I think. Didn't realize that Starter/Crumble was specially formulated for the needs of the little guys -- thought it was just smaller sized. While it is expensive per pound, it doesn't take many pounds to feed the 1/2 inch to 1 inch YOY. Maybe next year I'll get a shaker feeder on a pole near spawning area. That would solve the ant/caking issues. Why place the feeders near spawning area?
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So that the yoy/fry can access the food easier. That plus adding thick cover will allow small fry to get big quicker. A few weeks of enhanced growth and safety will greatly increase the weight of the forage base.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
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My larvae move away from nests at exodus or swim-up. When I follow them about by snorkeling, they can be found in really big schools starting about a foot off bottom in areas that are pretty much open without vegetation or other structure. The water there is at least a few feet deep. Those schools do not bust up until 2 or 3 weeks after exodus when they start moving towards cover. It is then they start showing interest in feed I apply.
Redspotted and Longear Sunfishes are the only sunfishes I watched so far that do not move out into open water.
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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I've found that adding thick cover for fry to hide in often leads to enhanced yoy survival, which translates into more mouths to feed, which in turn leads to reduced numbers of large or trophy BG.
It really does depend on one's goals doesn't it?
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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My larvae move away from nests at exodus or swim-up. When I follow them about by snorkeling, they can be found in really big schools starting about a foot off bottom in areas that are pretty much open without vegetation or other structure. The water there is at least a few feet deep. Those schools do not bust up until 2 or 3 weeks after exodus when they start moving towards cover. It is then they start showing interest in feed I apply.
Redspotted and Longear Sunfishes are the only sunfishes I watched so far that do not move out into open water. Do you have predators in the pond other than the parents and their relatives?
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168 |
My larvae move away from nests at exodus or swim-up. When I follow them about by snorkeling, they can be found in really big schools starting about a foot off bottom in areas that are pretty much open without vegetation or other structure. The water there is at least a few feet deep. Those schools do not bust up until 2 or 3 weeks after exodus when they start moving towards cover. It is then they start showing interest in feed I apply.
Redspotted and Longear Sunfishes are the only sunfishes I watched so far that do not move out into open water. Do you have predators in the pond other than the parents and their relatives? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Presence of larger fish does not seem to impact distribution of larval bluegill. You can have larval stages of other sunfishes; redear, green sunfish and warmouth where they may actually unite to form mixed species schools. If larger presumably predatory fish are present, then as fry stage is reached the fry move into the areas with structure which is most often vegetation but could also be beaver larders and rocky areas. In those situations the fry adopt obvious home ranges. If no predators, then fry simply move into areas that are shallow or have lots slope and are much more mobile in smaller groups of shoals. The shoals can still be made up of several hundred fish. Best place for me to place feeders would be edges of heavy vegetation as the fry will stack up in those locations. I have not see them congregate in or around spawning areas unless that was the only location they could find structure. Generally, adult male sunfish are not a threat to smaller fry regardless of what is in the pond so the males may not be the reason fry do not hang out there. Some fingerlings working to predate eggs and pro-larval sunfish might be what keeps the small fry out.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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BG feeding behavior when small is variable. It depends largely on the food source. Some move pelagic if the food is there. If the food is in thick cover they will stay there. I have found that xmas trees or other thick cover located about 15 yards+- off the beds in 3-5 feet of water is a haven for small BG (fry to 3 inches). They can stay in cover and eat or easily move pelagic to feed. Feeding over those thick cover areas is a large plus for increasing yoy/small BG survival and size , provided that is your goal. Here is an excellent book on BG and it has a fair amount about PS as well. https://fisheries.org/bookstore/all-titles/professional-and-trade/55054p/
Last edited by ewest; 08/06/17 11:47 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 168 |
To make communications easier with respect to bluegill and sunfish in general I use the following terms; embryo, prolarva (sac-fry), larva (through metamorphosis), fry (metamorphosis through about 1.25 inches), and juveniles/fingerlings (>1.25). This ignores the complication where juveniles can engage in precocious reproduction at about 2 inches on up. The precocious reproduction need not involve stunting. The smaller sizes are more hardwired in terms of what they do with respect to behavior. The behavior of the larval stage is poorly covered in text with what little you can find inferred from plankton tow's.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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I like those designations.
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