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#477077 07/26/17 03:34 PM
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I have a small, 1/8 to 1/10th acre forage pond attached to the back of my main BOW. Put in about 50 stocker CNBG, now see tons of YOY.

Almost no watershed, no feeder creek, so level is steadily diminishing. Probably about 6 or 7 feet deep now, full pool more like 8 to 9.

First question: Is it time to open the gate and drain the forage pond into the main BOW? FP is hot, very green despite low pH. Little or no rain in the forecast. I feed 2 seconds a day & fish eat, though not as enthusiastically as in main BOW.

On the other hand, I could just pump in a foot or two of water from the main BOW, careful to let it splash against rocks for aeration. This would mean the FP could continue and more fish spawn, hopefully, until drained in the fall. Only need a fraction of an inch from main BOW to raise FP couple of feet.

Second question: Would I be better off completely draining the FP rather than just trying to net the fish? Concerned about possible fish diseases. Allow to dry in the sun, and Next year hope to switch to TP and maybe freshwater prawns.

Third question: Would best option be to net out as many of YOY CNBG as possible & put in main BOW, leaving the larger fish for spawning? Less O2 use & fish waste generated.

thoughts or experiences are welcome!

PS Aeration going in both FP and main BOW within 2 to 4 weeks...

Last edited by anthropic; 07/26/17 05:01 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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If it's forage, I would probably add them to the main pond.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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Thanks, Dave. I do have a fear of a fish kill due to crowding in FP, especially before aeration is put in.

Anybody else have a thought I should consider before draining the FP?

Last edited by anthropic; 07/26/17 06:47 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Anthropic, It's awfully hot to be moving any fish right now, but I'll share some of experiences.

If you decide to seine or drain fish, I would probably pump water from the big pond to the FP prior to moving any. Basically just pre-aclimating them to the new water. Also, 50 adult CNBG are a lot of fish in a pond that size if recruitment is your goal. They'll readily eat the yoy, and that might be a reason they're not eating pellets as well as in the big pond. My brood pond's a little bigger than yours, and I'm growing out CNBG this year. 4 males, and 10 females are what I started with.

If your stocking anything other than predators next spring, I would drain the pond prior to adding anything else. Tilapia would almost require it to get any viable numbers, as legacy BG and GSF will really do a number on them. Also, if you do stock Tilapia, I would focus on the first or second spawn you have. Tilapia are omnivores, and will readily eat the fry once they get crowded.

I think removing the yoy is a good idea. When we're wanting to lower the biomass, we do what we call light seines. Even a box store minnow seine will work for this. You just seine the pond at full level, and take out a percentage of the available yoy. You're not going to get them all, but that's not the goal. The goal is to lower biomass.

That's a lot to say I agree with Dave.


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Thanks, you've given me a lot to think about. Pumping in water from the main pond to acclimate the FP fish is a great idea, as there are real differences in temperature, pH, and I suspect DO level.

I want to place some rocks under the spillway to help aerate the FP water when it drains into the main BOW. Probably the fall is only about six inches, but I was a little afraid the impact might hurt the larger CNBG.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Thinking about what Al said about the heat. Right now, I won't fish my ponds. With hot water, I think their struggling with being hooked will probably kill them.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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Newbie thought here as I have no experience with forage ponds even though my small pond is exactly that as it has ba-gillions of FHM fry that will serve as forage for next years stocking...Could you put a large pump in place to pump water up from the main BOW to the forage pond and allow the water to flow over into the main BOW naturally for, say, days maybe. This would allow the forage pond water to match the main BOW's water conditions and likely carry a lot of the YOY to the main BOW. You might want a grate over the outflow to keep your breeders in the forage pond but allow the YOY to pass. If this does not reduce the biomass enough for your liking then you could seine or drain. Or just maintain the pump running occasionally to maintain water quality.

Just some thoughts, my pond has water flowing through the overflow pipe on a regular basis (I have excessive watershed)and I see plenty of FHM fry in the overflow ditch and creek afterwards.


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Pumping the water from the main pond into the forage pond and letting it flow back into the main pond is the best route to take. Don't let it bounce on rocks or the fish will do the same.

In this hot weather, i.e. water temps in the 80°F+ range, any handling of fish other than letting them swim with the outflowing water will kill some, possibly as much as 50% or more depending on how careful you are with handling fish.

There is a reason why the fish hatcheries in Arkansas don't handle fish from late June thru Mid September - they lose too many due to handling stress.

Now, warm water fish, like Tilapia and Catfish are different, but you still have to keep O2 levels up and be mindful of any bud/silt getting into their gills.

If you are going to completely switch species for next year, drain the forage pond dry, and leave it that way for a few months. If water collects in it, even a footprint sized puddle, I would use hydrated lime liberally a few weeks before filling it up and restocking it with the new species.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Pumping the water from the main pond into the forage pond and letting it flow back into the main pond is the best route to take. Don't let it bounce on rocks or the fish will do the same.

In this hot weather, i.e. water temps in the 80°F+ range, any handling of fish other than letting them swim with the outflowing water will kill some, possibly as much as 50% or more depending on how careful you are with handling fish.

There is a reason why the fish hatcheries in Arkansas don't handle fish from late June thru Mid September - they lose too many due to handling stress.

Now, warm water fish, like Tilapia and Catfish are different, but you still have to keep O2 levels up and be mindful of any bud/silt getting into their gills.

If you are going to completely switch species for next year, drain the forage pond dry, and leave it that way for a few months. If water collects in it, even a footprint sized puddle, I would use hydrated lime liberally a few weeks before filling it up and restocking it with the new species.


Thanks, Dave, quarter acre, and Scott. Based on what I'm seeing here, I've decided the smartest thing is to pump in some water from main pond into FP and aerate in 2-4 weeks (waiting for electricity to be wired up for compressors, this is fast as possible). Drain when temps cool in mid to late September.

If they don't make it thru summer, well, the coons will eat hearty but it won't hurt my main BOW. CNBG are well adapted to heat so I figure they have a fighting chance. Might still net out some YOY to reduce bioload, but we'll see.

Re next year, I've heard it is wise to vary type of fish in FP due to possibility of disease. Don't know if that's true, but that's part of the reason I want to switch to TP. Also, TP apparently can be grown in greater quantities than CNBG.

Last edited by anthropic; 07/27/17 04:08 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Personally? I wouldn't worry about disease. Why would it affect a Forage Pond and not the main pond? Same fish are there.....

A client has had a forage pond for a number of years and the same fish are in it year after year.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
Personally? I wouldn't worry about disease. Why would it affect a Forage Pond and not the main pond? Same fish are there.....

A client has had a forage pond for a number of years and the same fish are in it year after year.


I guess the logic is that fish are much more densely packed into a forage pond, hence the risk of disease spreading is higher than main BOW. Like some people say about bird feeders.

Glad to hear your clients haven't had that problem. Even without that issue, probably will go TP route next year because I can raise more with lower risk of fish kill due to heat/O2 issues. Also because I might be able to raise prawns with them.

Last edited by anthropic; 07/28/17 01:22 AM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Frank, I like the Tp and prawn idea. I can tell you from my experience, when Tp are there with no predators, they will grow and multiply like crazy. It wont take them long to fill up that forage pond. Way faster than cnbg would.


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Will tilapia eat grass shrimp or are they strictly vegetarians?

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Tilapia will resort to eating 'meat' animal items primarily when the plant materials are absent.


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Thank you. I ask because my small artesian-well pond is weed choked and I added a few PK shrimp last year. I have seen no sign of them this year, but they may still be present. It may take several years for the nutrients to clear from this newish pond and I am considering adding a few tilapia next year to speed the process.

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A grass carp will likely eat fewer animal products when weeds are gone than tilapia. IMO the tilapia will not eat enough PK shrimp to be noticeable in the overall production of new shrimp. If you are not growing PK shrimp with tilapia in the pond your habitat is lacking. Loss of weed habitat = loss of PK shrimp.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/28/17 03:31 PM.

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Thank you Bill. This pond is only 30' in diameter, so even 1 grass carp would quickly strip all the plants out. A few tilapia added in spring seem more manageable since I can always reduce numbers and the winter will certainly take care of any I do not remove. I might try keeping a few small ones over the winter in a fish tank for the following year.

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TP did a number on my FH before I stocked LMB. However, in my case there wasn't a single pond plant nor bit of algae in the whole BOW, so for the TP it was either that or starve.

Bad timing on my part. frown

Last edited by anthropic; 07/28/17 11:09 AM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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TP eat a lot of FHMs?

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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
TP eat a lot of FHMs?


There are folks here a lot better qualified to answer that question than I, canyoncreek. My own experience was that they would if there were nothing else to eat. Result: FHM wiped out (no hiding places) before LMB stocked, so the only LMB that really grew were aggressive cannibals. Electroshocking revealed that the rest (90 percent) of LMB didn't do much first few months.

With Walt Overton's help, did second stocking of selected smaller TP in fall 2016 so that LMB could get more to eat. From what I can tell, this has improved growth rates.

But I'll never get back the first few months. frown

Last edited by anthropic; 07/28/17 12:46 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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I have seen some pretty aggressive teeth on a larger sized Tp and I also believe they were eating some of my fingerling lmb when the pond was new and full of Tp. I believe Tp will eat fingerlings of a lot of fish if there is not a lot of FA for them to eat. I know for a fact when the pond was full of Tp with few predators in the pond. they multiplied and grew like crazy and would take lures when fishing the pond.


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I may try the Tp in a weed choked wetland first. It has a little of everything in it because of flooding from a steam. One of the wetlands recently went chocolate brown, so I wonder if carp got in. Time will tell.

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RAH, I added just 5 bs of Tp to the 3.5 acre pond in the first spring when I had no lmb and only had cnbg res and fhm's. That 5 lbs grew to a couple of hundred pounds and maybe twice that. I was feeding the bg and the the Tp took over the feeders. The good thing about it all was the Tp was great eating and were easy to catch by rod and reel. Today with predators in the pond I rarely see any free swimming in the pond but have seen a large dead one or two over the summer and a couple of small 2"ers schools so I know they are reproducing. Just passing this along for some info that might help in the future.


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That's odd Tracy I added a bunch of large tilapia to our 5 Ac and hardly ever saw them . No babies ever seen and no dead ones in the winter just a reduction in algae. What were you using to catch them?

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Pat, the Tp were so thick at the 3 feeders I could catch them on most anything but I preferred using the fly rod and any beaded head fly. I added the 5 lbs of Tp April first and added the lmb fingerlings June 1st. If I had to do it again, I would use advanced lmb fingerlings or yoy lmb. I have now stocked Tp 3 different springs and like u I very seldom see any Tp and have not caught or fished for them since that first summer at the pond.


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