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Fine Bubble Air Diffuser

What is the opinion of this guy. I am going to buy two and pump them with a thomas 2660 5.1 CFM average depth 6' and 50' of hose.

Thomas 2660CE54 rebuilt

Last edited by Krystofer; 08/21/17 01:05 PM.

Just an average guy trying to keep up two ponds.
Main pond 9000 sq ft with 1700 sq ft island 5.5ft avg depth
Second pond 2400 sq ft 4ft avg depth
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Just an average guy trying to keep up two ponds.
Main pond 9000 sq ft with 1700 sq ft island 5.5ft avg depth
Second pond 2400 sq ft 4ft avg depth
Joined: Jul 2017
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Anyone have any opinions of these membranes. ?????


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The slits look too big to produce maximum water flow circulation compared to membranes with 1 mm slits. They would work okay especially you are not using multiple diffusers which require more cfm to operate all of them at optimum flow rates.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/26/17 10:21 AM.

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Krystofer, I would like to know how the system works if you go that route. I too have looked at the same compressor, line, and such. Thought about going with vertex for just the diffuser part, but like Mr. Cody said, they would work okay. I guess something is better than nothing, and right now I have nothing.


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Well at 12$ i bought 3. I will hook them all up and check out the results when i ever commit to a pump. Hopefully video will be attached.


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One has to be aware that larger bubbles make a more visible vigorous boil but does not actually move more water in gallons per minute nor does it dissolve more oxygen into the water. Rule for bottom air lift aeration, the smaller the bubbles the more water you move.


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Mr. Cody, could a 2660 push two 9" vertex diffusers?? I have been watching, reading, learning, and hoping to have a list ready for Christmas...may be the only way I'll get my aeration! lol I will be building and setting everything up myself except for the diffusers, weighted hose, and the pump.


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The $12 membrane looks die cut for the slits with a lot of wasted space for many more slits. As Bill Cody said, they look big, and big bubbles don't help much.

$36 for 3 diffusers is not at all a good deal when burning $25/month in electricity to move 75% less water....quality, effective diffusers will pay off better in the long run and even short term.



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That sounds like why they are so cheap. I am going to do some out of pond water tests first and maybe post some pictures or if i can figure out how to post video we can see the performance. I am gonna pull the trigger on a Gast 82R45 today with a powder coated cabinet and cooling fans already installed for 200$. I hope to see everything hooked up next week. I assume since that membrane has larger holes my pump will probably be too small but we will see. I am at an average depth of 5' and i plan to hook up two diffusers right next to each other at my deepest point of 8'-10'. i was thinking of putting the third on the opposite side of the small island i have but i will have to do some testing to find out how it all looks. My pond is pretty small and it should be enough water turn over, but i guess if could get smaller bubbles i might run my pump less. I found some 12'' diffusers for 34$ i wonder what there hole size is?


Just an average guy trying to keep up two ponds.
Main pond 9000 sq ft with 1700 sq ft island 5.5ft avg depth
Second pond 2400 sq ft 4ft avg depth
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[img:left][URL=http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/krystofer66/media/House%20View.jpg.html][/img] obucket.com/user/krystofer66/media/Pond%20Picture_1.jpg.html][/URL][/img] [img:left][/img]


Just an average guy trying to keep up two ponds.
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Second pond 2400 sq ft 4ft avg depth
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I am probably going to run 1/2'' hose up to the island and from the island i will run weighted 3/8'' hose towards my floating dock. The depth is between 8-10 feet right in the middle on that side. On the other side i will put one diffuser its only about 5 feet.


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Peachg - the 2660 will easily operate two to three 9" membrane diffusers.


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Thanks Mr. Cody. I will be getting a list together for my wife. lol. I have some other questions but will pull them up on my own thread...do not want to highjack this one more than I already have.


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Well I now know why they were only 12$.... Membrane only no housing. So i got creative and cut a top of an Ozarka bottle and gorilla glued in the membrane and some fittings on the nozzle to allow my PVC fittings to attach. Someone mentioned the holes were too big and after my testing i disagree. Upflow of water is intense and has about a 5'' dome of water protruding from the water level. Over all i have a Thomas 2660 110V that is already mounted in a powder coated metal box with vents cut, fans wired up, and filters inlet/outlet(removed the outlets for better flow.) I still think i need to purchase more hose that is weighted but it came with 20' of goodyear hose that i am currently using. All in all i am in this for $235 dollars. I think it is a pretty good deal. Next I am going to upgrade the underwater system with a second membrane and weighted hose. I attached a Stainless weight to the bottom and the membrane ends up floating about a foot off the pond floor. Right out of the muck.

I also attached a decoy mallard to the top of the membrane so i can pull out the membrane for maintenance.


Don't laugh at the glue job.


Pool is 6' Deep


Just an average guy trying to keep up two ponds.
Main pond 9000 sq ft with 1700 sq ft island 5.5ft avg depth
Second pond 2400 sq ft 4ft avg depth
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Peachg - the 2660 will easily operate two to three 9" membrane diffusers.
Thanks Peach. I will be buying more as i can afford.


Just an average guy trying to keep up two ponds.
Main pond 9000 sq ft with 1700 sq ft island 5.5ft avg depth
Second pond 2400 sq ft 4ft avg depth
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Originally Posted By: Krystofer
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Peachg - the 2660 will easily operate two to three 9" membrane diffusers.
Thanks Peach. I will be buying more as i can afford.


Your welcome but Mr. Cody needs to get the thanks for that. He answered my question. smile

Looks like its doing a good job!

Also, if you are going to throw that plate into the pond....let me bring you something to exchange...I'd love to have that plate, don't have anything for it at the moment...but I will! lol

Last edited by peachgrower; 08/08/17 12:48 PM.

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It is not necessarily the slits are too big. It is smaller slits produce smaller bubbles. It is just the smaller slits are better in that they produce smaller bubbles that move more water compared to longer or larger slits or openings. Both can work, but one is more efficient. As an example, remove the diffuser and have the air escape from the hose undiffused that produces really large bubbles. This way produces lots of noticeable surface action, but it is even less efficient at moving water than that of a larger slit diffuser.

The upwelling of water around 5" above the surface is a feature of using or having larger bubbles and and also a feature of placing the diffuser in shallower water. The surface action of larger bubbles will produce more noticable surface disturbance but not necessarily move more water. Finer bubbles do not cause more visible surface action than the larger bubbles. The larger slit diffuser will work okay, just not as efficiently as a finer bubble diffuser.

A way to test the amount of or speed of water moving away from the diffuser is to measure how fast an orange or similar mostly submerged object will move away from the boil. An object completely or fully floating on the surface does not really accurately reflect the current movement below the surface. This is a simple method used to measure stream flow.

Gluing or affixing the perimeter of the diffuser to a adjacent surface will make it more diffucult to disassemble the diffuser or change the membrane.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/08/17 03:42 PM.

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Yeah i understand the process of all your statements. I understood them before in previous posts. It was $12 and works great in my opinion. I have it in about 8' in my pond and it churns the water and creates a clearing in the pond of about 20' in diameter as the duck weed is not in that area. As for the maintenance of the membrane... If I cant clean the membrane i can just build a new set up for 15$ including the membrane. I guess the pictures of the membrane itself are misleading as well. The bubbles coming out under water are super fine. Thats why i dropped it in the pool to check the bubble size. They seem to be as small or smaller that what a fish tank air stone would produce. I dont have a 70 dollar vertex to compare and now that i have this i wll never. Dang where are all the ...'' thats a great set up for a cheap price'' ... quotes out.


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I have several of them they are 304 stainless lifting lugs.


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Oh yeah and i looked this guy up on the internet and it is made by Santaire and designed for city waste water treatment plants.


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It's a ________ (fill in the blank) setup for a cheap price. With that said, the way we start to calculate on how to design an aeration system for a pond is how many gallons of water each diffuser membrane moves to the surface per minute.

Now if you can figure that out you can compare that to the Vertex diffusers.

Us pond professionals that are paid to figure out aeration systems for peoples ponds can't do what you are doing. If we design and sell something and it doesn't work or the customer has a fish kill, who foots the bill? The customer that didn't want to spend the money for a system with R&D/Testing behind it or the company that built the system? If we did something like you did, and the glue comes apart, it costs us to go back and fix it, or do we tell the customer that they have to fix it? The DIY guys don't figure in labor and miles traveled to do the work, they are doing it in their spare time.

I'd be curious to see what the diffuser cost you if you take your hourly rate (what you get paid for working) and multiply that by the time you have building the diffuser and connections, plus the time you spent looking up where and what to buy to build it. Then add in the actual materials. Even the water bottle top. Now, what did that diffuser cost?


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I love your DIY project Kry. Often times I find myself enjoying the challenge and learning that goes into the DIY stuff even though there is a lot of time involved and sometimes I have to settle for less than optimal results (and some total failures). It looks like you are on your way to good results, enjoy it to the fullest and you can't put a price on pride.


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Krystofer,

You have missed the point. I am a DIYer and have been from the start. I love doing these projects as well. The diffuser Vertex sells is an engineered device. I use them in my setups. I built my own weighted bases, but I used the better heads from Vertex. Do the math. How much water are you moving? How much water movement are you loosing do to your design? Do you understand fluid dynamics? Do you understand the losses because of the interference you designed in? Just because yours is cheep, does not mean it is better or worse. I have tested several diffusers and setups. I do understand fluid dynamics and the interference patterns. While yours does move water, what is the gallons per minute yours moves? How fast does you setup completely circulate your pool or pond? I know to the minute how well my setups work. I know the electricity cost to operate my system and I know the gallons per KWH used. Do you?

My total cost is my real value. Yes DIY can be cheeper, but it also can be way more expensive in the long run. And like Scott said, when yours brakes, who are you going to call?

Do you know how much O2 your setup is adding to you water?

Finally, if you are looking for praise about your design, make it stand out for something you do better and have proof. Anyone can glue stuff together, the data does not lie and neither does the math. Do your math.

I DIY because I want to, not to impress anyone else. I share my successes and failures so others can learn.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
It's a ________ (fill in the blank) setup for a cheap price. With that said, the way we start to calculate on how to design an aeration system for a pond is how many gallons of water each diffuser membrane moves to the surface per minute.

Now if you can figure that out you can compare that to the Vertex diffusers.

Us pond professionals that are paid to figure out aeration systems for peoples ponds can't do what you are doing. If we design and sell something and it doesn't work or the customer has a fish kill, who foots the bill? The customer that didn't want to spend the money for a system with R&D/Testing behind it or the company that built the system? If we did something like you did, and the glue comes apart, it costs us to go back and fix it, or do we tell the customer that they have to fix it? The DIY guys don't figure in labor and miles traveled to do the work, they are doing it in their spare time.

I'd be curious to see what the diffuser cost you if you take your hourly rate (what you get paid for working) and multiply that by the time you have building the diffuser and connections, plus the time you spent looking up where and what to buy to build it. Then add in the actual materials. Even the water bottle top. Now, what did that diffuser cost?




As stated 15$ total cost. Sure are a bunch of fluid dynamic engineers on here. I built a glue together diffuser. It works. Its cheap. I can build them in 20 min with a time of 3 hours for glue to set. This was to save money period. I am sure with a few formulas and minutes i could figure all these numbers out to give exacts and find out the cost ratios for running pumps and water turn over rates ect... but in the long run i dont care about that. I turn the pump on at night and off in the morning. Been running for a week just fine. If i have problems i will solve it then. This was not to be an engineering thread just a hey guys and gals this might be a cheap solution for those not willing to bit e the bullet on a commercialized aeration system. I am happy and that is really all that matters. The rest of you can carry on in your negativity and for those that said good job thank you. Hope i gave some Macgyver Ideas to some of you. Have a good day all and Happy Ponding!!!


Just an average guy trying to keep up two ponds.
Main pond 9000 sq ft with 1700 sq ft island 5.5ft avg depth
Second pond 2400 sq ft 4ft avg depth
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