Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Photobucket perspective.

I'm going to post this here, so I don't detract any further from RC's thread. That way no damage will be done if it needs to be removed.

I've spoken several times now of the need to host photos here, directly on the website. And I've read several posts by angry people, berating and accusing photobucket of holding their pics for ransom or some such similar complaint. And after a few members patiently explained to me their reasons for being upset, I do kinda' get it.

But I still think there is plenty of room to spread the blame around a little. And more importantly (for me at least), is the question of perspective. Its a forum about ponds and fish. Or motorcycles. Or firearms. Or antique tractors. Or maple syrup. Or covered wagons. You get my point....it's just a forum after all. It's not life or death, or even how we make a living and pay the bills, at least not for the vast majority of us. It's about a hobby, nothing more.

And that perspective is the root cause of my gradual attitude shift over the last few months. There was a time when I was obsessed with our ponds, worrying over the smallest detail, upset when things didn't go as I planned. And then there was the epiphany, that total "holy crap they're just freakin' ponds with fish in em!!", moment. In the grand scheme of things, there's about 99 items more important than ponds with fish in them. And it's exactly the same with photobucket and forums: It's a freakin' forum about something that probably rates no higher than a hobby, on the import-o-meter. Maple syrup, old tractors, covered wagons, ponds, whatever. Still way down on the list for 99% of us, if we would only stop being mad and obsessed for a second, and think about it.

Now if you're in that 1% where ponds and fish, (or covered wagons), are paying the bills and putting food on the table, then that's where the share the blame thing I spoke of earlier comes into play. If it's really about your livelihood, then step up and take control of the thing....don't rely on a third party like photobucket. And it sounds like that's what's happening with a few members, who are putting photos on their own websites, trying to reduce their dependence upon third parties. Nice.

I've been around this forum for some time now. I know that pondboss will move forward, and find solid footing. Things may be different, but change doesn't have to be a bad thing, either.

My unsolicited advice, you can take it or leave it: Try to remember that it's just a forum, just a pond, just fish. Be passionate about all three, but be mindful of what's really important.

Yes, it's just a hobby for me, and most of us. Not something we depend on. But, most of us take our hobbies at least a little seriously. I don't like to rely at all on third parties, and won't if I can help it.

i hear ya sparky....i really do

Free sometimes doesn't last forever
It probably could have been handled better by PhotoBucket
But in the end ....it is what it is
We all gotta move on...
However you almost seem as stressed/shocked
over people's reactions as they do about PhotoBucket.
People like to "vent"
People get "pissed" about all kinds of non-earth shattering things
Fans get "pissed"/stressed if their favorite team loses
I'm "mad" when the Cowboys, SMU, and ND loses!
People get "pissed" about the weather
People get "pissed" when someone backs out of parking spot too slow
People get "pissed" if they leave the mayo off their burger
Blah blah blah x 1000
So you cant understand people venting
But I cant understand you being at all surprised by it
And I honestly mean no disrespect..it's just puzzling.

As far as ponds and obsessions
You are on a different part of the journey
You've arrived at a spot down the road from the beginning
But don't pee on the parade of guys just starting their journey
because you've already "been there done that"
they are enjoying the newness and stressing like maybe you once did

again...i hear ya....you are correct
but let people walk their own path
without implying "i just don't get it"

Maybe it is time to just let it go sprkplug.

I think we have your perspective.

Zep, I think I see these reactions as another symptom of the disease. I am a little puzzled, but mostly fascinated. Has it always been this way, and the explosion of social internet just highlights it, or is it really on the increase? Does outrage require less provocation than it once did? Is society moving towards a "it's about me, and what I want", attitude? Is it now acceptable to forego previously held social norms regarding civil and pleasant interaction with others, in favor of getting my answer NOW?

To me, these are all symptoms of the same ailment.

Then again, can it really be a case of the world vs. Sprkplug, and somehow the world has it wrong and sprkplug's powers of observation are more keenly tuned than the rest? I very much doubt it.

Which may mean that when you reach the point where you're visiting forums not to help or learn, but instead to study society and ponder it's future, that it's time to log off, rather than logging on. I've always struggled with these types of situations, and my view is often not the best.

I understand everyone's view. I really do. For me, I guess its more social than anything. I can't get around and do a lot of the things I used to enjoy. This photobucket has taught me a pretty good lesson. From now on, if I come across something on the web that's even remotely interesting, I'm clicking my PDF button and saving it to my hard drive. The old interweb is very dynamic and what's here today may be gone tomorrow. So from now on, your fault, my fault, nobody's fault, I'm gonna save it as a PDF. It's as simple as that. BTW, can anybody tell me what movie that last line is from?

Big Jake, starring John Wayne.

Winner!!!!!

Yes Sir. I think that's just about my all time favorite Western.

Gotta agree with Tony. On a scale of one to ten in my/our life, this just isn't that high. The free ride is over and they certainly could have done it differently if public opinion was that important to them.

Their new CEO has only one goal and that is to maximize profits and not to look out for anyone else. That's every CEO's job. Like the book The Godfather said "Nothing personal, it's just business.".

I personally rate the historic forum posts lower than the feedback given on active posts at Pondboss. I see this more as a place of discussion. I rarely tell folks that ask me for my expert opinion to read a paper rather than just helping them understand the answer to their question. I certainly might suggest a paper to read in a scientific journal, but I would not send them to a forum thread or email string. I make the time to give them information tailored to their request. That said, I think Photobucket has basic problems with efficient code and customer focus. Maybe their business model is to support commercial users who are unable to shift immediately to another service provider without economic loss. If so, Photobucket may be just delaying the inevitable.

Okay, so photobucket ends up floating on its side at the surface. How many will be happy about that? I'll bet some here will be. And what should we make of their happiness? The reason they gave for being all upset was supposedly due to the damage caused by disappearing photos. Well, those photos will still be gone if photobucket goes under, so why would some find enjoyment in that?

Maybe because for some, it's actually less about disappearing content, and more about "how dare they do that to me!"

And that, to my wobbly and shaky sense of understanding, is yet another symptom of the same ailment I spoke of earlier.

Yes - What they are doing maybe legal, but what they are doing and the way they are doing it are probably not right (thus the ransom talk all over the web). Most folks do like to see those who do the wrong thing get what is coming to them. Ever hear of Karma? Saying it might maximize their profits is not an excuse to behave badly, although many seem to have adopted that attitude in recent times. Greed is not look on favorably by many.

But is it greed? Or simply an attempt at survival?

It's American capitalism which is good but they are asking an unreasonable amount of money. I think their business plan will fail because of all the cheaper options out there.

The negative effect on this forum and others like it is the years and years of teaching resources that will be impossible to replace.

But that is the way the cookie crumbles for those of us that don't have a server in our basement.

Is schadenfreude bad?

yes sir...Big Jake!...I always loved that movie

Many of us post here to help others, Helping is a calling in life. Its family not about "me the poster". Helping people first by answering the question but more importantly by providing info so they can learn how. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day , teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime. I hate to see a family resource constructed by many in good faith be harmed. It is that simple.

On the business side I know everyone has read or encountered a company who has , through some bad act, destroyed its image or reputation. Goodwill is not easily replaced. That is why many businesses have PR departments and written codes of conduct. Surly you are aware of all the bait and switch schemes which are prohibited by law. Promise one thing then do something different without warning is not how you survive as a business.

I'm aware of bait and switch, but I hardly think the photobucket thing compares to a promised, but unavailable item in the Sunday circular newspaper ad. I don't know photobucket's history, but I know it's been free for the 9 years I've been on pondboss. Nine years for a bait and switch? I hardly think so. I think it's a new CEO looking for ways to increase revenue. Like Dave said, it's just business.

I wonder if the CEO is the same fellow that came up with New Coke? HAHAHAAAAA, ROTFLMAO!

+1

From a PR perspective it might have been better to grandfather in everything that had already been 3rd party hosted instead of doing what they did. Blind siding and pissing off millions of customers is not a good business model, seeing that Photobucket image about 3rd party hosting eveywhere is just a daily reminder for lots of folks.

I can live with what they did, the one set of pictures that I posted that I am bummed about about are the pictures in "Sexing RES" thread, when I have time I might recreate a condensed version of it.

Tony,
Saying "I told you so," or "suck it up is fine," but expect blowback. If you don't you will be perceived by people like me as disingenuous.

Its a free country, unless you want to create a new NFL, MLB, NBA, Ect.

There are laws in place that do not serve the greater good. Money talks, and BS walks. Always has, always will. Vote with your dollars.

When it gets bad enough, the tea goes into the harbor. Then it get serious.

This is not about the tea. But it is a pain as there is a lot invested in places like PBucket. Changing the rules is legal, but it sucks. The individual investment is high.

In short, This is effecting a lot of people negatively. Have some empathy.

Side note: I never used Pbucket for this very reason. All free stuff goes away sooner or later. And if you are not paying, you are the product.

I never used Pbucket, but I feel empathy for people who had detailed how to's based on it and now it has to be rebuilt in a new thread or lost. Most forum software doesn't allow editing after a few days have passed.

I don't depend on free stuff. That's why I only use my gmail address as a throw away. My regular email address is a monthly paid service that I depend on to be there when I need it.

I have been online since 1996, and have seen whole forums come and go. If I want to save something of importance, say a hard to find how-to, or online manual, I copy it to my HDD, and back it up in a couple of places.

Brian, this I am totally in agreement with you on. ^^^^^^


As far as having empathy for those affected negatively, that is my entire point. Volcanic eruptions may affect people negatively, as might the death of a loved one, or a devastating hurricane, or a house fire. But photos on the internet? I'll do my best to try and help anyone affected by tragedy, but we're still talking disappearing pics on the web, right? An inconvenience surely, but hardly the level of negativity or tragedy as a loss of life or property.

And when we get right down to it, the pics really aren't even lost are they? They're on the hard drive, or waiting for download over at photobucket. My point is, it appears to me that many would rather complain than doing the obvious: rolling up their sleeves, getting a cup of coffee, and sitting down at the computer to begin reposting those photos utilizing a hopefully more stable platform than p-bucket.

Sure it sucks, and sure it will take a LONG time. But its possible, and inexpensive. Tell that to the family that lost their home in a hurricane, and understands all too well what real negativity is all about. I'm not preaching to you Brian, or anyone else specifically, as I know you are very much aware of all this. I'm putting it out there as a cyber head shake of disbelief for the world to see. They're photos people. If they mean that much to you, quit complaining and get started on fixing the problem. It can be done.

Tony,

Agreed, real death and destruction is hands down more serious. Most people on this forum do not experience those level of events. So perspective again is the focus.

Lets try this. I'm stuck in an elevator and the lights are out and the AC is out, it might be groaning some and I am in there with scared crying people. To you, its an elevator to fix. To them, it could be the end of the world. To me, I am stuck with a bunch of crying people who don't understand how an elevator works, but I still try to reassure them that you will have it fixed soon and you will keep us safe.

Now lets try this one:

You are in the back of my aircraft and we are flying at night in moderate to severe turbulence, lightning all around. People around you are praying, convinced they could meet their maker every time the aircraft shakes, rattles or rolls. Each lightning flash brings more gasps. Meanwhile, I am up front hoping my coffee doesn't spill.


Its all about your perspective. I have spent hours and hours taking pictures, cropping them, resizing them, posting them and referencing them to show off, help others, and to demonstrate concepts or color schemes. My time is no less valuable than other people's time. That goes for everyone here. We all want to help, learn, and take pride in our accomplishments. This changes how those efforts can be used, and that upsets people appropriately. For you, its no big deal, to others, it is a really big deal.

SMH
I can't believe we're still talking about this. Let's move on to something worthwhile. Did anyone get any much needed rain? Small storm today dropped about a tenth.

I've been on this flight, too many times! I sure don't miss traveling for business...

Farmall, participation in this thread is entirely voluntary.

Brian, your last post has definitely provided food for thought. I think in a way, it actually helped clarify my thoughts on the matter. You're right, it is about perspective, and folks perspectives can be very different as your examples illustrate.

But in the case of a stuck elevator or aircraft turbulence, the different perspectives stem mainly from a lack of knowledge regarding such things, no? Not everyone understands how elevators and aircraft work. They may well think that the end is nigh. You and I know better.....why?

Because of our knowledge and experience. We are keenly aware of how this stuff works, and our perspectives are formed from having an education on the subject. And that education came to us by way of commitment, sacrifice, and resolve. The same way everyone everywhere, achieves anything worthwhile. If it's important enough to you, you will do whatever it takes to make it happen. Whether it be learning to fly, becoming an elevator repair journeyman, or taking on the task of reposting lost photos.

Brian, I highly doubt that getting to where you are now came easy. I know the road I'm on can be pretty rough at times. But you got it done, I'm getting it done, and all those complaining about lost photos can get it done, if they would just get started.

That's why I struggle with seeing missing photos as any kind of big deal. Inconvenient yes.

Sparkie I knew I liked you!
Well said

Blew like a hurricane here last night. Got a little over 1/2" at the house.

Lightning in the distance but nary a drop

This is exactly it!! Like Brian I have posted many,many things out here in the past 7 years....to help others and some to just give joy and the time involved in getting them off my phone and resizing them and cropping them and downloading them to PBucket... It is what it is we cant do anything about it, I cant count you the number of Private message I have gotten on my DIY air system and how glad folks were that I had pictures of it all to go by!! And my floating feeder as well and how we put it all together, and countless pics of my cabin... it just sucks and if I knew I could do it the way I know now I would have... but it is what it is...

Spark your correct in the grand scale of life this is not that important, but it still sucks for those who did an AWFUL lot out here to help and show others how to do things.... thats all.

RC

It's about like raising kids. Things change.

I agree RC, it is a shame about everyone's photos. My only reason for posting was to present another viewpoint, to try and illustrate how we as a society might have our sense of scale a little out of adjustment. I've got many, many photos of HBG in several different incarnations here on the forum also. I hope they don't disappear, but if they do, oh well. If someone needs visual help, or asks to see a photo, I will do my best to provide one. I guess I'm lucky in one regard, I have no idea how to edit my photos. I'm not exactly enamored with digital media technology, so my pics came right off the camera.

Tony,
I am glad to see that you recognize the efforts lost by our fellow pondmeisters. I agree that this is not going to cause the lights to not come on, or the faucet to stop providing clean water, but that said, it is a inconvenience to say the least.

About learning to fly, I got that, always have...

I still am going to be pissed/frustrated/depressed if
the Cowboys don't win a playoff game this year!

HA! You got to get passed my Packers first!! lol

Go Pack Go!!!

RC

It is just one more of those air pockets we hit. I became a FREE(??) United Airlines Hundred-Thousand-Miler Club member in 1971. I hit a million air miles with them in 1975. Those were truly the golden days of flying -- piano lounges, other lounges, etc., on the early 747s. PanAM was still pretty darn good too in those days. I typically had 30-50 pieces of heavy excess baggage with me, so the airlines and the porters all loved so see me coming.

Sometime in the late 1970s - early 1980s, it all started to change. Then it really changed. I lost all my perks on all the airlines, even though I was still flying overseas a couple of times a month. I lost my privileges, just like we are seeing with the Internet services today.

I used Photo Bucket, for free, for nearly 10 years without a problem. Not bad.

Pond Boss staff and others are working to solve this issue. It has affected other sites I'm active on.

IMHO, we are not going to retrieve fun old pictures like these:


















Some of these old photos should probably be forgotten forever, like the next to bottom photo. But, photos, like the very last one should be a part of our history. I have these in my archive, but I'd need to have my after-life ghost spend a lot of time trying to match them up with the thousands of photos I've posted over the many years I've been posting here.

Life is good. Enjoy what we have.

Ken

I agree with what all of you have said. I do see what sprkplug is saying about perspective. How many of you have had the horrible day when you can't get on the internet or your facebook or twitter is down?? I have seen days here in rural Arkansas where service is substandard and folks can't get online or view facebook or watch netflix and you would think someone died. We have become such a "tech savvy" people, that many of us have forgotten what life is without tech. I for one have had that fit before. Normally because I can't get on a forum or browse ebay or something. I don't have a smartphone, but I have seen the "I can't access my facebook "face".." Its not a good one. I was EXTREMELY disappointed when I got on here and all the pics I was used to looking at were gone. I do know that folks that put the how to's on these sites and do the experiments and record observations, that lost their pics feel like all that work was in vain and feel like throwing their hands in the air. I know its business but I think it could've been done differently...maybe by giving people some time? I don't know, I didn't know anything was going to happen until I logged on here and the pics were gone. I feel for you guys that put SOOO much work in the awesome posts on this site!

I would just like to see us as a culture take a step back and look at how dependent we have become on technology. What would happen in a big city if the power was out for a few weeks? During the big ice storm in 2001 or so we were out for 10 days and I was working on a dairy farm at the time. It was hard...we depended a lot on electricity and tech then, but nothing like today...and nothing like a city. We do not teach kids how to live or what to do without tech. The net and all the "businesses" free or not, are a lot like a big brother...they can be your best friend one day and take your candy the next. Like many have said...and what I have started doing is backing that mess up, and making sure it is safe.

I know I went a bit off base and kind of got carried away. Sorry for that. Oh yeah, got a GOOD rain last night, My pond came up nearly a foot and is close to the spillway!! Never had that at the end of July!!

A few thoughts..

Zep, I'll try and overlook your passion for sports. Do the Cowboys play the sport that uses a ball that's pointed on both ends?

Brian, all good. Do you know why they teach apprentices not to scream if they fall off the elevator car top? Because It causes the journeyman to have nightmares.

RC, more pointy-ball sports?

Ken, those photos aren't lost, you still have them. Start a new thread entitled "memories,"blast from the past," etc, and post away. Encourage others to do the same. Lots of newer members are unaware of pondboss's storied past. Turn the p- bucket debacle into an opportunity to revisit the archives through photos.

Peachgrower, you nailed it dead on. Our dependence on Internet social forums and sites, has skewed our perspective in a lot of ways. Bravo.

If the power went off in one of our larger cities for a month, there would be looting, murder,etc, and hundreds, maybe thousands, would die.

I saw the heavy clouds and heard the thunder as those storms you got skirted just to the south of us, then moved on south. It seems we are often missed.

I'll try. Being retired is difficult.

I just got off the phone -- after multiple calls, all wanting some kind of assistance. (Long story -- includes moonshine, guns, jail, lawyers ....) No, not me, these are just my otherwise-friendly neighbors feuding with each other.

Lynda just hollered down the stairs to ask if I got distracted in getting my truck and cargo trailer ready to go at 7:00 AM tomorrow to help our grand daughter and son-in-law move a bunch of stuff.

I'm heading to a family reunion on the South Shore of Lake Superior later this week.

We just got back from a crazy, but fun trip to northwest Canada.

Being retired is difficult. I'll try see what I can do to post a bunch of fun old photos with captions when I get back from Lake Superior.

Ken

RC I think with the rookies now having a year under their belt
we pass the Packers this year...if we can stay outta jail!...lol



Sparky they've attempted to the last 20 years without a whole lot of success.

John, man it does seem that the rain skirts you guys alot...how is your level holding up right now?

The apocalyptic movies are really not far off on what would happen in the cities if power was out a for a short time...food would run out quickly also.

My older pond is down about 20" already. Heading into a new drought in this area. Some places around here got two to three inches yesterday. We did get a small shower today, about 0.2". No flow in the creek. I think if my pond did not leak, it would only be down about 6 inches.

Yeah, I hope the Cowboys win all of their playoff games and go to the Super Bowl and get spanked by the Texans..........

If there's any spanking done, it probably won't be done from Houston.

The Cowboys are currently having trouble keeping their new recruits out of jail. That's a recurring news item in D/FW. They did a lot better than expected last year and the playoff game against Green Bay was a good one. They just ran into a more complete and experienced team.

Not much of an NFL fan...but all about NCAA. How are the Aggies looking this year? I ask because there are so many Texans chiming in.

Speaking of Aggies:

Did you hear about the Aggie who won the lottery?

He went to the lottery commission to claim his prize and was told that there were 2 winning tickets sold, therefore he would have to split the jackpot with the other winner.

Angrily the Aggie replied......... “Well in that case, just give me my damn dollar back!”

LOL yeah and then we flat fell on our faces the next week... Ugh....

RC

hmmm...gully must be a Longhorn. lol

Reminds me of a little story. I've always been a bit of class clown/smart arse sort of fellow. When I was about 21 I got a job with a pretty good size company and there was quite a few of us in orientation. You know how they always want you to stand and tell everyone your name and a little about yourself. Well this cute little ol' gal stood up gave her name and said she was from somewhere Ohio. I piped in, "What Part of Texas is that in, Sweetie." Her ol' eyes flashed in my direction and gave me a go to heel look and said something under her breath.


That attempt at breaking the ice was a strike out.

Tony, I agree 110%. I'm in the 1%, and I'm not going to rely on a 3rd party to host pictures. I found a way to put them on my website, but not leave them all visible to the public, so if anyone downloads the web page say with their phone, it won't eat up a lot of their data like it would if I made them public (I think). Still working on it albet slowly because there's still pond stuff to do even though it's HOT out.

OTOH, I really think Photobucket should say "O.K., we screwed up, from now on all 3rd party hosted pictures will cost "X" per year as a subscriber but all the pictures that were there before will be grandfathered in and those pictures will remain as it was."

I see the internet as a huge library, and that's where many people go to learn. I see a lot of the photos as parts of the text book so to speak, not just put up there frivolously.

Well said. I would not be able to do 3/4 of what I am able to without it. I love to learn and read but the net has made things SOO much more accessible. Its hard to swallow buying a 600 dollar caterpillar service manual for one of the several engines or machines you are working on. The net has made it possible to "afford" to learn and be able to fix things.

Esshup,

If the photos are important to your line of work, consider watermarking them. It deters people from ripping them off for their own commercial use.

I know Condello recently had some of his fish photos ripped off for some tackle company's advertisement.

Good idea, thanks!!!