Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Photobucket perspective.

I'm going to post this here, so I don't detract any further from RC's thread. That way no damage will be done if it needs to be removed.

I've spoken several times now of the need to host photos here, directly on the website. And I've read several posts by angry people, berating and accusing photobucket of holding their pics for ransom or some such similar complaint. And after a few members patiently explained to me their reasons for being upset, I do kinda' get it.

But I still think there is plenty of room to spread the blame around a little. And more importantly (for me at least), is the question of perspective. Its a forum about ponds and fish. Or motorcycles. Or firearms. Or antique tractors. Or maple syrup. Or covered wagons. You get my point....it's just a forum after all. It's not life or death, or even how we make a living and pay the bills, at least not for the vast majority of us. It's about a hobby, nothing more.

And that perspective is the root cause of my gradual attitude shift over the last few months. There was a time when I was obsessed with our ponds, worrying over the smallest detail, upset when things didn't go as I planned. And then there was the epiphany, that total "holy crap they're just freakin' ponds with fish in em!!", moment. In the grand scheme of things, there's about 99 items more important than ponds with fish in them. And it's exactly the same with photobucket and forums: It's a freakin' forum about something that probably rates no higher than a hobby, on the import-o-meter. Maple syrup, old tractors, covered wagons, ponds, whatever. Still way down on the list for 99% of us, if we would only stop being mad and obsessed for a second, and think about it.

Now if you're in that 1% where ponds and fish, (or covered wagons), are paying the bills and putting food on the table, then that's where the share the blame thing I spoke of earlier comes into play. If it's really about your livelihood, then step up and take control of the thing....don't rely on a third party like photobucket. And it sounds like that's what's happening with a few members, who are putting photos on their own websites, trying to reduce their dependence upon third parties. Nice.

I've been around this forum for some time now. I know that pondboss will move forward, and find solid footing. Things may be different, but change doesn't have to be a bad thing, either.

My unsolicited advice, you can take it or leave it: Try to remember that it's just a forum, just a pond, just fish. Be passionate about all three, but be mindful of what's really important.

Yes, it's just a hobby for me, and most of us. Not something we depend on. But, most of us take our hobbies at least a little seriously. I don't like to rely at all on third parties, and won't if I can help it.

i hear ya sparky....i really do

Free sometimes doesn't last forever
It probably could have been handled better by PhotoBucket
But in the end ....it is what it is
We all gotta move on...
However you almost seem as stressed/shocked
over people's reactions as they do about PhotoBucket.
People like to "vent"
People get "pissed" about all kinds of non-earth shattering things
Fans get "pissed"/stressed if their favorite team loses
I'm "mad" when the Cowboys, SMU, and ND loses!
People get "pissed" about the weather
People get "pissed" when someone backs out of parking spot too slow
People get "pissed" if they leave the mayo off their burger
Blah blah blah x 1000
So you cant understand people venting
But I cant understand you being at all surprised by it
And I honestly mean no disrespect..it's just puzzling.

As far as ponds and obsessions
You are on a different part of the journey
You've arrived at a spot down the road from the beginning
But don't pee on the parade of guys just starting their journey
because you've already "been there done that"
they are enjoying the newness and stressing like maybe you once did

again...i hear ya....you are correct
but let people walk their own path
without implying "i just don't get it"

Maybe it is time to just let it go sprkplug.

I think we have your perspective.

Zep, I think I see these reactions as another symptom of the disease. I am a little puzzled, but mostly fascinated. Has it always been this way, and the explosion of social internet just highlights it, or is it really on the increase? Does outrage require less provocation than it once did? Is society moving towards a "it's about me, and what I want", attitude? Is it now acceptable to forego previously held social norms regarding civil and pleasant interaction with others, in favor of getting my answer NOW?

To me, these are all symptoms of the same ailment.

Then again, can it really be a case of the world vs. Sprkplug, and somehow the world has it wrong and sprkplug's powers of observation are more keenly tuned than the rest? I very much doubt it.

Which may mean that when you reach the point where you're visiting forums not to help or learn, but instead to study society and ponder it's future, that it's time to log off, rather than logging on. I've always struggled with these types of situations, and my view is often not the best.

I understand everyone's view. I really do. For me, I guess its more social than anything. I can't get around and do a lot of the things I used to enjoy. This photobucket has taught me a pretty good lesson. From now on, if I come across something on the web that's even remotely interesting, I'm clicking my PDF button and saving it to my hard drive. The old interweb is very dynamic and what's here today may be gone tomorrow. So from now on, your fault, my fault, nobody's fault, I'm gonna save it as a PDF. It's as simple as that. BTW, can anybody tell me what movie that last line is from?

Big Jake, starring John Wayne.

Winner!!!!!

Yes Sir. I think that's just about my all time favorite Western.

Gotta agree with Tony. On a scale of one to ten in my/our life, this just isn't that high. The free ride is over and they certainly could have done it differently if public opinion was that important to them.

Their new CEO has only one goal and that is to maximize profits and not to look out for anyone else. That's every CEO's job. Like the book The Godfather said "Nothing personal, it's just business.".

I personally rate the historic forum posts lower than the feedback given on active posts at Pondboss. I see this more as a place of discussion. I rarely tell folks that ask me for my expert opinion to read a paper rather than just helping them understand the answer to their question. I certainly might suggest a paper to read in a scientific journal, but I would not send them to a forum thread or email string. I make the time to give them information tailored to their request. That said, I think Photobucket has basic problems with efficient code and customer focus. Maybe their business model is to support commercial users who are unable to shift immediately to another service provider without economic loss. If so, Photobucket may be just delaying the inevitable.

Okay, so photobucket ends up floating on its side at the surface. How many will be happy about that? I'll bet some here will be. And what should we make of their happiness? The reason they gave for being all upset was supposedly due to the damage caused by disappearing photos. Well, those photos will still be gone if photobucket goes under, so why would some find enjoyment in that?

Maybe because for some, it's actually less about disappearing content, and more about "how dare they do that to me!"

And that, to my wobbly and shaky sense of understanding, is yet another symptom of the same ailment I spoke of earlier.

Yes - What they are doing maybe legal, but what they are doing and the way they are doing it are probably not right (thus the ransom talk all over the web). Most folks do like to see those who do the wrong thing get what is coming to them. Ever hear of Karma? Saying it might maximize their profits is not an excuse to behave badly, although many seem to have adopted that attitude in recent times. Greed is not look on favorably by many.

But is it greed? Or simply an attempt at survival?

It's American capitalism which is good but they are asking an unreasonable amount of money. I think their business plan will fail because of all the cheaper options out there.

The negative effect on this forum and others like it is the years and years of teaching resources that will be impossible to replace.

But that is the way the cookie crumbles for those of us that don't have a server in our basement.

Is schadenfreude bad?

yes sir...Big Jake!...I always loved that movie

Many of us post here to help others, Helping is a calling in life. Its family not about "me the poster". Helping people first by answering the question but more importantly by providing info so they can learn how. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day , teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime. I hate to see a family resource constructed by many in good faith be harmed. It is that simple.

On the business side I know everyone has read or encountered a company who has , through some bad act, destroyed its image or reputation. Goodwill is not easily replaced. That is why many businesses have PR departments and written codes of conduct. Surly you are aware of all the bait and switch schemes which are prohibited by law. Promise one thing then do something different without warning is not how you survive as a business.

I'm aware of bait and switch, but I hardly think the photobucket thing compares to a promised, but unavailable item in the Sunday circular newspaper ad. I don't know photobucket's history, but I know it's been free for the 9 years I've been on pondboss. Nine years for a bait and switch? I hardly think so. I think it's a new CEO looking for ways to increase revenue. Like Dave said, it's just business.

I wonder if the CEO is the same fellow that came up with New Coke? HAHAHAAAAA, ROTFLMAO!

+1

From a PR perspective it might have been better to grandfather in everything that had already been 3rd party hosted instead of doing what they did. Blind siding and pissing off millions of customers is not a good business model, seeing that Photobucket image about 3rd party hosting eveywhere is just a daily reminder for lots of folks.

I can live with what they did, the one set of pictures that I posted that I am bummed about about are the pictures in "Sexing RES" thread, when I have time I might recreate a condensed version of it.

Tony,
Saying "I told you so," or "suck it up is fine," but expect blowback. If you don't you will be perceived by people like me as disingenuous.

Its a free country, unless you want to create a new NFL, MLB, NBA, Ect.

There are laws in place that do not serve the greater good. Money talks, and BS walks. Always has, always will. Vote with your dollars.

When it gets bad enough, the tea goes into the harbor. Then it get serious.

This is not about the tea. But it is a pain as there is a lot invested in places like PBucket. Changing the rules is legal, but it sucks. The individual investment is high.

In short, This is effecting a lot of people negatively. Have some empathy.

Side note: I never used Pbucket for this very reason. All free stuff goes away sooner or later. And if you are not paying, you are the product.

I never used Pbucket, but I feel empathy for people who had detailed how to's based on it and now it has to be rebuilt in a new thread or lost. Most forum software doesn't allow editing after a few days have passed.

I don't depend on free stuff. That's why I only use my gmail address as a throw away. My regular email address is a monthly paid service that I depend on to be there when I need it.

I have been online since 1996, and have seen whole forums come and go. If I want to save something of importance, say a hard to find how-to, or online manual, I copy it to my HDD, and back it up in a couple of places.

Brian, this I am totally in agreement with you on. ^^^^^^


As far as having empathy for those affected negatively, that is my entire point. Volcanic eruptions may affect people negatively, as might the death of a loved one, or a devastating hurricane, or a house fire. But photos on the internet? I'll do my best to try and help anyone affected by tragedy, but we're still talking disappearing pics on the web, right? An inconvenience surely, but hardly the level of negativity or tragedy as a loss of life or property.

And when we get right down to it, the pics really aren't even lost are they? They're on the hard drive, or waiting for download over at photobucket. My point is, it appears to me that many would rather complain than doing the obvious: rolling up their sleeves, getting a cup of coffee, and sitting down at the computer to begin reposting those photos utilizing a hopefully more stable platform than p-bucket.

Sure it sucks, and sure it will take a LONG time. But its possible, and inexpensive. Tell that to the family that lost their home in a hurricane, and understands all too well what real negativity is all about. I'm not preaching to you Brian, or anyone else specifically, as I know you are very much aware of all this. I'm putting it out there as a cyber head shake of disbelief for the world to see. They're photos people. If they mean that much to you, quit complaining and get started on fixing the problem. It can be done.

Tony,

Agreed, real death and destruction is hands down more serious. Most people on this forum do not experience those level of events. So perspective again is the focus.

Lets try this. I'm stuck in an elevator and the lights are out and the AC is out, it might be groaning some and I am in there with scared crying people. To you, its an elevator to fix. To them, it could be the end of the world. To me, I am stuck with a bunch of crying people who don't understand how an elevator works, but I still try to reassure them that you will have it fixed soon and you will keep us safe.

Now lets try this one:

You are in the back of my aircraft and we are flying at night in moderate to severe turbulence, lightning all around. People around you are praying, convinced they could meet their maker every time the aircraft shakes, rattles or rolls. Each lightning flash brings more gasps. Meanwhile, I am up front hoping my coffee doesn't spill.


Its all about your perspective. I have spent hours and hours taking pictures, cropping them, resizing them, posting them and referencing them to show off, help others, and to demonstrate concepts or color schemes. My time is no less valuable than other people's time. That goes for everyone here. We all want to help, learn, and take pride in our accomplishments. This changes how those efforts can be used, and that upsets people appropriately. For you, its no big deal, to others, it is a really big deal.