Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Feeding Game Fish Chow, looking for new approach

Newer to managing my 12 acre lake. I have been taking over tasks for 4 years. When the feeders were initially set up the guys did it for 1 second, 4 times a day. Was getting a ton of lotus near feeders so I have now cut that back. Feeding 300lb of feed every 30 days.

We have a lot of cedar around the lake and I have probably put in 100 in the past 4 years. There is a lot of structure, especially near any of the 3 feeders.

Tested my water yesterday and got the following. Ph=8.2, Ammonia=.25, Phosphate=.5, Nitrate=0. Reading the little brochure in the test set that says over feeding. Looking at my feeders and seeing the most of the growth within 100' of them I would say that is right.

Currently feeding 3 times per day for 1 second with Game Fish Chow. What is the thought here? Am I better to feed less times per day or change feed? Location, east of Dallas. Hot.

I irrigate out of the lake for my yard and beds so I have to think about chemicals in the lake. I struggle to get the largest fish possible while also remembering that the lake is important for the entire property.

That seems like a lot of feed per month for only one second 3 times a day... are they eating that much quickly or does it float away and sink?

Is that 32% protein?

If feeding BG you might look into Cargil 4512 45% protein, or Optimal feed . The higher protein doesn't produce as much fish waste from what I have gathered. One of the smart folks will come along and steer ya in the right direction

Alkilinity?

Dang right it's hot. My fish are feeding lethargically.

They are eating a lot of it, but not all of it. It is 32%. 300lb was when we were doing 4 feedings per day, each for 1 second. I actually backed that down to 2 times per day based on the growth around the feeders.

I tried feeding 2 seconds 2 times a day, but that washed a lot up on the shore. I put in 3" BG this spring. 80% copper nose and 20% red ear. 2000 this year, 2000 (copper nose) in 2015 and 3000 (CN) in 2014.

When I started this project we measured 80 fish. We had one that was 17" and only 1.3lb, Now we have some up to 12" and 1.2lb. Just introduced Florida bass this spring and pulled out over 200lb of larger fish. Probably going to keep going on the removal of the long skinny bass so we can cull less when the Florida start mixing in. Some of the ones we are removing are over 4lb but just not the fish we are looking for.

We just aren't catching the BG we used to. In fact, kids fishing off our covered gazebo haven't caught a bluegill fishing with minnows this year. I just added a bunch of Mossback dock pro sets to the area. Hopefully that will help. I may try some little worms and see if that helps catch BG. I blame the cormorants. Learned the hard way what happens if you leave feeders on the water once they arrive.

Alkilinity looked fine. I forgot the reading, but it was the first time I have ever done the test.

I would think that the LMB are having a field day with your 3-5" BG, that's probably why you don't catch a lot of larger BG- bass food, and from what you said it sounds like they are underfed. Have you considered having the lake electroshocked To see what you got?

We shocked when I bought the place before starting this journey. Had 77 LMB, 3 red ear. All skinny. I thought phosphate was from over feeding.

The BG have lot of cover in the lake at varying depths. Other than the Mossback, the dock/gazebo doesn't have any.

Wow. 77 LMB and 3 RES! I bet Pat is right, most of those stocked BG were devoured quickly.

In retrospect, you may have been better off to hit the reset button. Could be tough to catch enough original skinny LMB to really change the dynamic.

But I'm just an amateur, the real pros will likely have a lot better ideas...

PS I really wish I had your pH, mine is acidic & a constant battle.

One approach to get more forage BG would be to create a small pond of 1/10th acre or bigger next to your lake. Stock it with only CNBG and RES. Put one of your feeders on it.

Within a year you would have CNBG big enough to escape your LMB predation in your lake. Start catching as many 6"+ BG as you can from the new forage pond and throw them into the lake. Do this for several years. This would help your forage situation out in your main lake.

I have a 1/10th acre pond without any predators and it is amazing how many BG you can raise and how fast they will grow with no predators and with plenty of feed.

Eventually this small pond will over populate with BG and stunt. But before that happens you will have been able to raise hundreds if not thousands or adult size BG to get your lake populated with BG big enough your LMB will not instantly devour them.

When you get to that point, throw a few LMB in the tiny pond and let them feast. The pond will have fulfilled its purpose.

I'm no expert. Just the way I would approach it rather than trying to buy thousands of dollars of advanced size BG stockers.

The tiny pond could become a kids pond or cull fish pond after it has raised all the adult BG you need to stock your lake.

Those numbers were before we touched anything. No added structure, no BG. I have 90 acres and a lot of cedars that are really wide at the base. I take the bottom 4' and cut them off and tie some blocks to them and sink them. They are 10-15' wide and make awesome cover. Probably 20 of those in the lake, plus all the other cedars.

Funny you mention the reset button. I really considered it when I saw that first shocking. My numbers on length to weight are way better now on the smaller fish, but if I'd done that in 2012 I'd be catching nice fish now.. I let a lot of people fish here this year. I'd say 95% of the fish caught do not go back in.

The other thing on the feeding is how long it takes after you screw up and catch it to notice the change working. I don't know the name of the feeders I have, but they hold 100lb of game fish chow. 4 seconds a day feeds 100lb. All the lotus and some floating stuff I haven't identified are near the feeders so that's why I figure I'm over feeding or feeding the wrong stuff. Still trying to learn when to make sure you get ahead of a problem and when to let it have time to work out.

Snrub, wish I could do that. Maybe on the next place.

I like your idea, snrub. I've got such a pond, and though never have seen any CNBG beds, there are plenty of YOY there now.

Since my forage pond connects directly with the large pond, it can be drained simply by opening up a valve. I was thinking of doing that when the large pond gets a little low, since the forage pond may dry up (it has no feeder creek & little watershed). CNBG, YOY and about 50 larger stockers, would serve to feed LMB in main lake.

Maybe could raise FHM there when it rains & begins to fill again, then run TP when it warms next spring.

When things get out of whack it takes a while to straighten out but it sounds like from what you've said the RW is rising. Keep removing LMB and adding large BG to the pond and you should see a difference. On the fish food I would cut the amounts until they eat it all in a few mins. And most of all use a higher protein (40-45%) feed for the BG.

PS do you have plant life close to shore for the YOY to hide in? If not chunk some of your cedars in close to the bank will help

I have cedar tops in clumps in the grass. 2-3' depth, with grass all around. I did that in prep for the BG and Florida bass this spring. We also got a little more coontail this summer, especially near the feeders. Pretty sure I can get 5-6" BG from Tyler in the spring. More expensive

What feeds are you using to get to 40-45%? I've only used Game Fish Chow. I feel pretty confident that feed and my weeds are going hand in hand. How to fix it is where I am having trouble.

Newbie question, what is YOY?

Back down to the lake to work on thinning the herd. Rough work

I use Cargill 4512 bought at Overtons fisheries between Buffalo and Centerville... they also have great fish , and are very helpful.

If you don't mind , where are you located?

Sunnyvale, east of Dallas 20 miles

Thanks

YOY is young of the year or babies

Went down last night to watch the feeders go off. I had some activity, and those were pretty nice fish. Last night I left the dock lights on and it was covered with small BG when I checked at 10pm. May move a feeder closer to the dock. My end goal is to have the dock/gazebo be the perfect place to take kids to catch fish.

So optimal vs Cargill, is the choice based more on what's available near you? Would those be better than GFC? Where to go in DFW area? How is cost compared to GFC?

gr8Texan,
I use the Purina Aquamax brand of fish foods: aquamax LMB for HSB (hybrid stiped bass), aquamax 600 for larger BG which HSB will eat also, and aquamax 400 for small BG. The 400 and LMB have 45% fishmeal protein and the 600 is 41%. Others here use and seem very happy with Optimal but I don't have first hand experience with it

Good Luck!

I like my Optimal. However, Lusk feeds Purina and I caught some really nice BG's there a couple of months ago. Others feed Cargill with good results. I'm not sure it matters when you are using a food.

I had Roach Feed, my local feed store, order some aquamax 500 for me. I ordered enough to last a month so after 2 weeks I will evaluate. I have stocked CN 3 times in the last 4 years. I see some large ones and some small ones when looking around the lake.

This August weather is wild. 8"+ in the last week. Hopefully the new water helps me with the alga that was getting bad. I need to get back on catching the bigger fish and taking them out.

gr8texan, I may have missed it, but how big were the Florida LMB you stocked? If they were less than 10-12" long, they may be nibbles for the existing LMB population by now. With a 12 acre pond, and an pre-existing population of fish, get prepared for a siege. Don't ask me how I know.

Aquamax is good and will help but it is a long term process. Feeding has been proven to be very efficient for adding growth to BG. Population mgt (harvest) is key to improving the whole fish spectrum.

Do you have tilapia? They've done a nice job keeping the algae in check on my BOW, plus provide forage for LMB. Takes some pressure off the BG, too.

I haven't the last two years. When I did the tilapia went right to the feeders and hung out. They went nuts when the feeder went off. I may try again next spring.

A little update. With the recent rains my lake is full pool. All of those cedars are underwater from 2' to 20'. I caught my first Florida bass the other day. He was a dink, but he is probably too big to be eaten by anything in here.

We have taken 150 fish out, several of those in the 2-4lb range. I am trying to get those fish out before my Florida genetics kick in. Right now it is easy to tell the Florida from the native. I have been letting a lot of people fish here, but they have to keep what they catch, unless they catch a Florida or a BG. I don't know if we can fish the lake into balance, but we are going to try.

My feed store that I got the GFC from is getting me Aquamax 500. The BG are feeding much more aggressively for the Aquamax than they did for GFC. Last night I went to the dock at 9:30. With the doc lights on you could see tons of fry that are around an inch. Too small for my eyes to ID in the water. There were bass feeding on them at that time of day.

I think I am on the right track. Next year I will watch the feeders a little more carefully to not overfeed the spring. I will know more next year. Thanks for the help.

how are you telling the difference between the two Bass?

Now it is easy. Anything of any size isn't a Florida. The one I caught was not that dark green as the other fish. Don't know how long that will be easy to tell. For now, everything over 12" has to really make a case for throwing it back in the water. Less than 10% make it back in. The Florida were put in this May/June at 2".

I have a lot of long big mouth small belly fish. I am guessing they were here before I started. For now I am just letting a lot of people catch fish and take them home. I don't think it is possible for us to take too many 2+ lb fish out of the lake right now. Am I wrong on this?

I was catching so many fish to throw out that my thumb recognition on my iPhone wouldn't work. That's a good sign.

You are probably right about removing the 2# fish. Take some length and weight measurements and look up the relative weight chart if you want to be sure. For 12 acres though you might need to remove 50# *per acre* to get things back where you want, and then 20-30# per acre per year after that. See if you can get a real management professional to advise you.

Your existing fish will eat a LOT of the 2" Florida stockers though. If you're serious about introducing FL genetics then you'd need much bigger stockers.

Yep, about 95% will be eaten.

I've got the chart and try to survey every year. This year was just a messed up spring with lowering the lake to work on the dam. I was without structure until May. I talked it over with the guy at Tyler Fish Farm when I stocked my bluegill this year. Since we had 2' of water up in what was a grass bank we decided now was about as good of a time as ever.

Out of 500 fish they all made it into the water alive, and they were back in the grass. I wouldn't have done it without the additional cover, but I agree that most became dinner. Hopefully the bass preferred the BG I put in. I think what I am hearing is that rather than buying 500 2" buy 50 10" and get more surviving fish.

Is the size chart the best way to tell native vs Florida vs hybrid? I hadn't thought that far ahead. I would sure hate to be throwing out the wrong fish next year. Right now we just throw out the skinny long ones. Neighbors are happy because I keep giving them fish.

My experience from my pond was I had a few LSLB (Camelot bell-Florida) bass that were 13" in Nov. from a 2" June 1st stocking date here in Texas. You may need to adjust your culling by length by this Oct. And you might also look into stocking some small Tp in Oct to help add some wt to your lmb this fall. Stocking the Tp this fall may also reduce some of the pressure off the bg and help out the early next year spawning bg. As the water cools down they become much easier meal. The Tp may not live through the winter but if in S. Texas they might. Overton's is having a Tp special for smaller Tp soon.

This is my definition of a great fishing trip !