Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations How did these fish arrive ?

"Nature" brings them in - maybe birds.
Growing up in East Texas more than seventy years ago, I spent summers on my grandparents farm in central Texas.
I learned to swim in stock tanks and got in troulble with my grandmother every time.
Yep - mud cats!!!
Nearest body of water was town lake twenty miles away.

The idea of birds carrying them on their feet, in their feathers, or in there throats is a lot more plausible to me than evaporation, or super flying fish eggs, or underground springs, or even alien spacecraft that jump from pond to pond spreading the eggs. My best guess if the waterfowl and quite possibly some of the larger game animals that walk into the water while drinking. They can travel a mile in little time at all. We have a lot more wildlife in Wisconsin than in Texas and it is pretty common knowledge that the birds carry the eggs. Next summer I may try to get some eggs to stick to my hand and transport them to another container just to see what happens. 5 minutes would be plenty of time for a bird to move from one body of water to another around here. With all the discusion about bullheads living for 24 hours out of water is it so hard to beleive the eggs could last for an hour under a birds wing?

Brian, the shallow stock tanks would very often dry up during periods of summertime drought.
Mudcats could be found in the mud with no water cover.

We have a 0.5-acre frog pond that is only 4-feet deep that is less than two years old. We put fatheads in last spring, which have done well and multiplied. This Spring we put 250 1-2" redears to grow out until fall so they would not become expensive food for my bass in the other pond. No other fish have been stocked and the pond is land locked. I was looking at it last weekend and was surprised to see a 7-8 inch green sunfish. Had him on a fly twice but lost him and haven't seen him since. He's well fed and fat. I think he was mixed in with the fatheads.

I don’t believe birds transplant fish
When I was a kid I would "help out" ponds by putting fish in them.
I didn’t know any better.
I knew about every pond within 2 square miles of my house it didn’t mater how well it was hidden.
Greens and bullheads are the hardest/ easiest to transplant
I just built a pond and have received several offers to help stock it with everything from bullheads, crappy and even flatheads.
Paybacks a bitch.

I was surprised by a sight in my pond. Due to our recent lack of rain I have an area about 30 ft by 30 ft that became separated from the main part of the pond by a mud strip. I noticed something and when I jumped down on the muddy area about 2 ft wide between the 2 parts of the pond I noticed about 50 mosquito fish actually trying to hop from the area that was drying up to the main part of the pond! You just never know how fish will move about.

I had always heard that birds transported eggs from one pond to another, but I didn't think that was rational. After spending a lot of time in west/central Texas (Sonora area), I now think it is the idea is more believable. Like others have witnessed, I have seen landlocked ponds with no possible outside entering water source have species of fish that were never stocked. In one case, a rancher friend of mine who owns 15,000 acres laughed at me when I brought a rod & reel, saying that his "tanks" were never stocked. This is a remote area already, and being in the middle of 15,000 acres with no vehicle access (for those not expected) is a tough way for a two-legged friend to help stock a pond. In one tank, I caught over 20 bass 2-5 pounds. In a separate incident, my dad made some money based on the bird theory. He bet another guy that he could catch catfish out of a pond knowing that it had never been stocked with them. Like the rancher, the guy laughed, until about 20 minutes later my dad hooked into a 10 lb. channel. I've seen too many examples lately to negate the bird theory. (These are just 2 of the more humorous ones). Both ponds mentioned were completely landlocked and too remote to get help from outsiders, and in the case of the first pond, it had never been stocked at ALL. The rancher's family have owned the place since the late 1800s and he swears no one has ever put in fish. However, it should be noted that while the area is very remote and the spreads are big, neighboring ponds are close enough that it is feasible that birds may have been the culprit.

Ya,,, like a fish egg or fish fry will be able to survive out of water long enough on a birds foot to be transported across 7,000 acres. Anyone ever tried to hatch a fish egg that has been out of water over 30 seconds?

Secondly almost all fish lay very adhesive eggs. What ever the egg hits after it is laid it adheres strongly to. If the egg by remote chance gets laid on a bird foot how will the bird get it off its foot/leg at the next pond? I don't see many birds flying around with stuff dangling off their feet such as algae or weeds with possible eggs attached. Again dehydration is a huge hurdle to over come.

Fishermen are the most NORTORIOUS fish stockers on this planet. Anywhere anyplace they will find a way to create their own secret fishin hole.

I've now experienced this phenomena personally. I would have rather not, but...

However they got in there, how is the best way to get them out? Does anyone make a good, solid, long handled, large dipnet with mesh fine enough to capture the inch long catfish?

Rangersedge,
This may sound like a wacky idea, but if you already have a good sized dip net how bout buying a couple of those plastic scrub things that people use in the shower. If you take them apart you will get a 8" tube about 15' long with tiny holes in it. Some creative folding and liberal use of a stapler and you can turn this into a basket of sorts. Take this "basket and staple the edges over the rim of your dip net and bingo you have a dip net with very small holes that you should be able to rein in the 1 inch fish.

ranger, I got my 3'x3' umbrella seine at Academy. It has about 1/4" holes and you attach it to whatever length pole that you have. I had no trouble catching them.

I wish somebody could explain how my 8 and 9 year old son came home 3 months ago and said they caught frogs,mimmows and 4 bream(about 2 1/2 inches long) in a swimming pool(yes swimming pool)at a house in out neighborhood that had been vacant for 9 months.i don't think we have many people go to the local pool to go fishing.myself and 2 other dad's went to the pool to see for ourself.this pool was in pretty bad shape for lack of use,but it did that the above in it.the new owner said when they cleanned the pool it had thousand's of minnows in it and 2 other fish,he did not know what they were put said they were also about 2-3 inches long.

Frogs travel long distances at night during rain events. Presence of fish in the pool is an easy answer. Someone put them in; probably kids. As I said before every fisherman wants his own fishing hole even if it has to be a temorarily abandoned pool. Food source (zooplankton)for all these fish came in with the fish transport water. Newly hatched tadpoles were also no doubt eaten by adult "bream" FYI. Pool chlorine very quickly disipates when it is not frequently renewed.

PS. Many many people call young game fish "minnows". All the minnows in the pool were probably young fingerling bream or sunfish; very probably green sunfish.

I would add one exception. I have read some types of zooplankton do come from rain. Do a search you will find research on this. Zooplankton can be found in the guttering of houses after a rain.

About that rancher story an investigation would probably find a hired ranch hand stocked the tanks.
As a kid growing up in the country it was my mission to keep ponds stocked with fish.
I’m sure I surprised many farmers.

This is a lot more fun than talking politics

Possibly God.........or Evolution?

Bill, read the post fully. I am not saying they stick to a birds foot. That would be silly. They stick under the feathers and as some one suggested possibly by regirgitation. Cormorants dive deep and fast and you can't tell me they don't cruise through fish egg batches enough to occasionally get some under their feathers. This is an area that they would be protected from wind and drying out.

I obviously can't prove this theory but it is considered common knowledge in the north. I can assure you no one and I mean absolutely so one visits my pond from the surrounding area except ducks, geese, herons, and occasionally cormorants briefly before I chase them off.

As I can tell so far my bullhead infestation includes only 2 adults. It's not hard to beleive that a few eggs could survive a short flight. Possibly could have been a few very small hatchlings. I have read on this board about bullheads staying alive for a day or 2 out of water. I could run to a pond in either direction from mine in under 2 minutes.

I am open minded and would consider any other possibility that makes sense, but I am absolutely land locked, all stocked fish were screened and were raised in tanks without outside influence, and I can guarantee no one else enters my property. I do however have birds on a daily basis.

ok, here's one for you !

5 foot X 20 inch hoop net $50
2 cans of Alpo $2
1 piece of rope with float $2

Bullhead eradication PRICELESS !

Ducks and diving birds have oil on their feathers dispersed by the oil gland near tail. Thus typically water runs off of a duck's back and feathers do not get wet when in water. Water pressure keeps feathers compressed against body. Very difficult to get fisheggs under feathers; plus this area is normally dry!

I will believe regurgitatation before bird transport of eggs or fry.

I remember years back I saw in a journal a scientific study about eggs and fry on bird feathers. I think the results dismissed the idea or I would have saved the article as proof that it occurs. Should have saved it anyway for times like this. .

Gotta jump in on this, for the mystery exists too far, too remote and too often to be so easily answered by notorious midnight plantings of fish by over-zealous humans. I have always been told by old timer pond owners who never ever stocked their fish filled ponds that the ducks eat the fish eggs and out they come undigested. If you ever seen how quick corn goes through a duck or goose, say what you want, but common sense says this is at least one, though maybe not the ONLY way, fish find their way to new waters.

My pond was 18 years old when I bought my property. It was full of every sort of amphibian, crustacean, insect and reptile imaginable in the area. It had many coots as semi permanent residents and much visiting by ducks, herons and egrets. Much to my surprise, there were NO FISH, NOT ONE. My pond is close to many ponds in the area as well as several creeks and rivers. If ever there was going to be a pond with a spontaneous arrival of fish, this was it. I used to believe the bird myth, but as many of you did I researched it and also could find no proof of it ever happening. The "birds" are ugly flightless things that have buckets attached to their useless wings.

Interesting post. Lots of opinions. And nobody knows for sure, so that is what makes it interesting.

Double Camp, interesting theory, the eggs go through the digestive system. The grinding action in the gizzard should nullify that, but does all food go through the gizzard?

Here is a thought, what if the eggs are in the fish, when the fish is swallowed by the bird. Thus the eggs are protected from the stomach acids, etc. and are expelled whole into new waters. Hmmm...

What is the saying, "Opinions are like hind-ends. Everybody has got one, and quite a few stink."

What a thread! I haven't been on the site in quite a while. This one is amazing. Maybe a story for Pond Boss.
For 25 years I have been in the profession of designing, building, stocking and managing private lakes and ponds. It's a fascinating business, and quite an honor in which to participate.
While much of the biology makes good sense, some of the natural occurrences don't.
Let's throw a little more common sense into the mix of this discussion. Let's say an egg or two make it to another pond via some bird transport device.
The egg must arrive moist, viable, and then come off the leg, feather, beak, butt of a bird. Then, the egg must fall/be placed/end up in a substrate which will allow it to hatch. Then, after it hatches, the fry must avoid being eaten by some giant zooplankter/insect/creature. Then, the fry must go through its stages to maturity, then meet up with another creature of the same species (which went through the same astronomical odds) to mate and begin to create a population.
Not likely.
I have treaded around muddy ponds many times during and after rainfall events.
I have come to the conclusion small fish will travel long distances in relatively shallow flowing water to find a safe home.
I bet, upon further investigation, the Haughton pond in question has a nearby swamp/marsh/creek/pond that has the alledged fish in it, and they made their escape during heavy rains.
It's common to find fish in small mud holes/cattle tracks in a pasture, both above and below a pond, immediately after rainfall.
I can't imagine birds successfully transporting eggs, in their beak, on their legs, or through their parasite ridden intestines.
Fish move through running water.
Now, after that little tirade, I will truthfully tell all that I honestly don't know how it happens, but it does.
One other note...some hatcheries may mix fish, but most don't. They have reputations, and the professional ones don't want that reputation tarnished, especially those who wish to stay in business for a while.

Nick - The egg laden fish passing thruough a bird also "stinks" as you put it. How we going to get those eggs fertilized. Male and female both swallowed? Wow. . Where there is a will there is a way.

How about Aliens and space ships stocking fish? Sounds as good as most theories so far.

Bill,

To the best of my knowledge there isn't a body of permanent water within a mile of my pond...far as I can tell, the water exiting just spreads out in the woods below, no water there...water got real high this weekend after heavy rain and overflowed into bahia pasture...saw LOTs of bullheads in the pasture...maybe that'll get rid of them, they'll get trapped in the shallow water !...

Back in my Tornado chasing day’s I can’t tell you how many ½ - 4 acre ponds we have seen sucked dry from Tornadoes and the fish scattered for miles some of which would get caught up in the vortex and spread out to the super cell which could travel for hundreds of miles.