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#474974 - 06/27/17 03:49 PM Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
I have transferred 10 Arrowhead plants to my pond (about 5 weeks ago) and they have all done nicely and some have multiplied from one large clump to three additional smaller ones (no flowers present on transplants).

However, the pond must have been seeded already as many, many have sprouted near the banks that have no rock covering. I feel like I should hurry and order some other types for diversity's sake so that the pond is not overrun with one type of plant. I think the arrowheads are a great plant to have, but would like some variety.

I am thinking about...

White or Blue Pickerel (Pontederia cordata)
Kidney-leaf mud plantain (Heteranthera reniformis)
Sweet Flag
Hardy Water Canna (Thalia Dealbata)
Blue Flag Iris (Iris versicolor)
Cardinal Flower (Lobelia cardinalis)
Common Spikerush
Bulrush
Bur-Reed

My limited research tells me that these options are fairly safe and mostly native to Missouri. I wanted to throw them out there to the forum for comments. I will not be able to afford all of these, but will pick 4 types and go with it next week.

If any one near me in Missouri wants to talk plant trading or merely wants to pick up some arrowhead PM me. I live 10 minutes from I-70 mile marker 79. I could even consider mail trading if you can school me on the shipping requirements of pond weeds.
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#474977 - 06/27/17 03:59 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Instar Offline


Registered: 01/28/11
Posts: 201
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I would recommend staying away from any of the 'flag' iris as they are quite rampant growers and are quite difficult to manage once they are established.

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#474982 - 06/27/17 04:42 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
Are these flag iris' something to consider after the banks have been established with other plants or do they tend to kill off their neighbors and take completely over?

Half or better of my pond's banks will not be fishable due to the steepness of the banks (and my lack of gumption to weed whack them). I hope to flood these areas with desirable plants even if they get tall and thick. I do not really want submerged plant life at this point to avoid losing surface area of my small pond, but need the emergent and bank dwellers for erosion control and aesthetics.
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Noel

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#474984 - 06/27/17 05:49 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Instar]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4296
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Blue flags are not invasive. Yellow flags are invasive.

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#474988 - 06/27/17 07:32 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
davebic Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 9
Loc: nc
We planted about 2000 pickerelweed plants in our lake last May. They are awesome. Great purple color and the ducks love the seed heads. They will grow out into about 16" of water. Seem quite hardy but if you have muskrats and carp lookout. They also love the plants. We also planted some blueflag iris but I like the pickerelweed plants better. The BFI will grow into about 6" to 8" of water. Carp and muskrats do not seem to bother the BFI. I have a good source on plants in southern PA if interested. Good Luck.

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#474995 - 06/27/17 09:11 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12768
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
1/4ac - all your listed plants are good choices. The bullrush are the fastest spreaders, deepest growers on your list.
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#474998 - 06/27/17 09:23 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Bill Cody]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5803
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
1/4ac - all your listed plants are good choices. The bullrush are the fastest spreaders, deepest growers on your list.


Bill,

I went with hard stem bulrush. Do they behave better?
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#475029 - 06/28/17 10:47 AM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12768
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Both hardstem and soft stem are IMO equally aggressive at spreading and fairly hard to kill chemically. Watch them carefully and control as needed. However they do provide decent shallow water cover for small fish.
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#475039 - 06/28/17 12:35 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
The bulrush may have to go on the list for next year if needed. After Bill Cody's comments, I have read a bit more and it seems they can grow in 3 to 5 foot deep waters. I'm not ready for that.
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Noel

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#475048 - 06/28/17 02:28 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12768
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Bullrush growing in 3'-5' of water is why I don't prefer them. Bullrush IMO are better for large ponds or small lakes that can benefit from large stands of reed beds.
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#475098 - 06/29/17 11:12 AM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
I have attached a photo of the Arrowhead explosion for kicks and if the reduced photo size allows you can also see the results of a FHM explosion.


Attachments
20170627_171857.jpg (459 downloads)

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Fish on!,
Noel

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#475102 - 06/29/17 11:30 AM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12768
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
IMO the arrow head is providing great cover habitat for small fish. Look at all the in-between spaces between plants. Arrow head stays short and does not grow deep like cattails and bullrush. Cover in deeper water of 2-4ft can be good.


Edited by Bill Cody (06/29/17 11:31 AM)
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#475104 - 06/29/17 12:12 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
I have asked the Pond Mega Store site about options for shady areas and they returned with a few choices that were not on my list...

Zebra Rush (Scirpus tabernae-montani ‘Zebrinus’)
Golden Club (Orontium aquaticum)
Tall Royal Blue Pickerel(pickerel dilatata)

I assume the Tall Royal Blue Pickerel is fine given the normal varieties are fine, but am unsure and certainly don't know about the other two. I have to admit that a little research reading does not really lead me to believe that these are shade loving plants, but could tolerate some partial shade...

Any concerns here?


AND Bill, Am I making a mistake, in your opinion, by not planting anything that tends to grow deeper than the 1 to 2 foot depths?


Edited by Quarter Acre (06/29/17 12:15 PM)
Edit Reason: Added question for Bill
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Fish on!,
Noel

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#475105 - 06/29/17 12:19 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4296
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Lizard's tail?

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#475138 - 06/29/17 04:43 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
Thanks RAH, Lizards Tail (Saururus cernuus) seems like it falls in the category with the ones that I have selected thus far. I'll add it to the list and will be making my purchases tomorrow.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#475147 - 06/29/17 06:25 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4296
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
If you were closer, you could come by and get some starts.

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#475149 - 06/29/17 08:07 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bill Cody Offline
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Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12768
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Quote:
AND Bill, Am I making a mistake, in your opinion, by not planting anything that tends to grow deeper than the 1 to 2 foot depths?

It depends on your goals. Another factor to consider is how much water fluctuation there is annually in your pond. the plants could be somewhat deeper in high water periods and shallower in low water periods. Often the plants will grow when un-contained in a pond a little deeper than is commonly stated on the plant nursery web sites.

I like lizards tail mine grows slightly above the water line into about 2ft of water.


Edited by Bill Cody (06/29/17 08:12 PM)
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#475155 - 06/30/17 08:19 AM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2708
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
A stream close by has lizards tail growing along it's banks. I may dig some up this morning and transplant to the pond. Maybe it would survive since it is native around here. I have not had any transplanted plants survive at the pond so far. I have been watching the lizard tail for awhile now to see how aggressive it is at the streams edge.
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Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

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#475156 - 06/30/17 08:58 AM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
This is my pick list. I think I will order a couple of each, disperse them around the pond and see what likes my pond's environment and what does not. I dabble in plants and trees and have found that there is no sense trying to make something grow where it does not thrive (too much work). What thrives will be manually divided next year and redistributed where the others have not taken. I have chosen the pickerels and dealbatas as my favorites and will get a few extras of those.

White and Blue Pickerel (Pontederia cordata)
Sweet Flag
Hardy Water Canna (Thalia Dealbata)
Blue Flag Iris (Iris versicolor)
Cardinal Flower (Lobelia cardinalis)
Common Spikerush
Bur-Reed (edit - removed from list)
Lizards Tail (Saururus cernuus)
Zebra Rush (Scirpus tabernae-montani ‘Zebrinus’)
Golden Club (Orontium aquaticum)
Tall Royal Blue Pickerel(pickerel dilatata)

My fish stocking plans are to be determined by next spring but it will likely be HBG/RES/HSB or BG/RES/LMB. Either way, my pond does not lend itself to bank fishing much due to steep banks so I don't mind if the emergent plants take over the shoreline. My real concerns lie with submergents that will grow in the 6 foot range. If this were to happen, I would loose a lot of the pond as my pond is only a 1/4 acre and 6 foot deep plant coverage would likely mean that 1/3 to 1/2 of my pond's surface are would be consumed.

So far, this year my pond level has fluctuated about 1 foot below the pipe, but has averaged about 6 inches below. After a 2" rain last night it's 6 inches above the bottom of the pipe, but that will be back down today as my overflow pipe is 15" diameter. I have excess watershed.

Thanks a bunch for everyone's participation in my thread...it has been most helpful. I have attached a panorama of the pond just to show off and show the steep banks where I hope to establish the veggies.


Attachments
Panorama.jpg (205 downloads)



Edited by Quarter Acre (06/30/17 10:27 AM)
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#475157 - 06/30/17 09:15 AM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4296
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
My white pickerel weed died out. You might want to choose just one type based on aesthetics if you want that one to survive.

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#475161 - 06/30/17 10:00 AM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
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Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12768
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
My white pickerel weed also died out. I don't think they are real hardy. I am interested in how well the hardy water cannas survive; mine did poorly and died. If you want a fairly aggressive marginal plant that does not grow deeper than 2ft consider the flowering rush. I have lots to get rid of. It is considered invasive and does spread fairly fast. Invasive is a relative term. I consider native cattails invasive. Cattails IMO are more of a problem and less of a benefit in ponds than flowering rush.
http://www.michigan.gov/invasives/0,5664,7-324-68002_71240_73848-368758--,00.html
http://www.luontoportti.com/suomi/images/10025.jpg


Edited by Bill Cody (06/30/17 11:56 AM)
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#475167 - 06/30/17 11:14 AM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Bill Cody]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4296
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Are water cannas supposed to be hardy in Ohio?

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#475177 - 06/30/17 12:50 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
RAH, the Thalia Dealbata should be hardy north to zone 6. Some places even say to zone 5. We'll see how they do in my zone 6. Ohio appears to be mostly zone 6. I would guess that there are many varieties of water cannas, so I am only speaking of the rather non-showy Thalia Dealbata. I have never had them, just read about them a bit and thought I'd give them a try.
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Noel

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#475179 - 06/30/17 01:49 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4296
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
They seem to be OK in Missouri, but I think that I am too far north? Maybe Ohio does not have quite as cold minimum temperatures. We lost a bunch of things a few years back when we got down to -30 F. This was very unusual though.

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#475182 - 06/30/17 02:08 PM Re: Arrowhead/Duck Potato Explosion needs Competition [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1032
Loc: West Central Missouri
I don't think I'm hardy to -30F, jeeez!
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Noel

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