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#473844 - 06/10/17 11:36 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: John Fitzgerald]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Your old pond sounds about like mine,but I have a few trees that might go nearer to 16".I may try to do something with it later,after I get the new one built.There is a lot more water shed to it but it's on the edge of my property and not where I would like it.
Originally Posted By: John F
Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Unfortunately I only have one of those.lol!My clay is good,but it's in a deep wooded ravine with steep sides and he is going to have to clear an area just to stock pile all the top soil until he is ready for it.He said when things are right he can build around a 1 acre pond for $10,000.00,that doesn't mean I can't find someone that can do a good job cheaper but I'm having a hard time finding anyone to give me prices at all..lol!
Originally Posted By: John F
In my opinion you should get more bids. The costs between NW Arkansals metro area (pop over 300k) and your area shouldn't be that much different. Around here, in good clay, fairly flat with good accessibility, and not many trees, the cost is not more than $12k per acre.


My area is not real steep, and the clay is down about 8-10inches. The last pond was in a grassy field, no trees. The first one was a renovation, brush and over 50 trees on the dam, and around the pond, average 6" diameter trees, some 12".


Edited by Bobbss (06/10/17 12:33 PM)

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#474292 - 06/16/17 01:25 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
I'm thinking I'm going to end up with some burn piles above my pond,there is no good place below the dam.What little space I have there he is going to need to pile top soil.Will it hurt if I use fuel-oil ect... to help burn it?It's hard to get green stuff to burn without it.
I'm hoping I will get the green light from the wife by next week so I can call him and get on his schedule.He said he could probably start 2-4 weeks after I let him know I'm ready.

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#474307 - 06/16/17 05:48 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1081
Loc: NE Missouri
Bob,
I burned a lot of the timber in the pond base. I used old tires and diesel to get it going. There was nothing left afterwards. Although when it did initially fill there was some black residue on top of the water. It was there for just a few days. To my knowledge, it had no effect on the water, fish, or anything else. We harvested (I say we, but it was the guys building the pond) about $15,000 worth of trees out of the ravine where the pond ended up. I still had to get rid of all the small stuff, and all the tops from the trees they harvested.
Here's a pic of the nasty looking water when the pond intially filled. It cleared up pretty quickly.
(The black stuff) The clay wouldn't settle out of the water, so Rainman came out and did his Alum magic and made the water as clear as any spring.




Attachments
IMG_0162.JPG (129 downloads)



Edited by SetterGuy (06/16/17 05:49 PM)
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#474318 - 06/16/17 10:05 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks SetterGuy!I'm thinking that I will be still burning after it starts filling with water.

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#474447 - 06/19/17 11:46 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
I had a good Father's Day. grin I got a savings account in my name with $15,000.00 in it for my pond!Now as long as I can keep the guy to that budget I'm good to go.That and get the rest of the wood cut and the crap wood and brush burnt.lol!

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#474469 - 06/19/17 03:20 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1081
Loc: NE Missouri
Outstanding!! Congrats
_________________________
3 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#474498 - 06/19/17 10:46 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks SetterGuy!I can't wait to get it built!

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#474581 - 06/20/17 11:14 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
I talked to my pond builder today to let him know I was ready to get things set up.I'm going to be out of town on vacation the first week of July so we agreed to shoot for about 4 weeks to start my pond.That will give me some time to cut and burn what I can.

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#474587 - 06/20/17 11:45 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
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Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6768
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Bobbss, Congrats! Start thinking now about structure, trenches, mounds, and root balls for your builder. Knowing and planning ahead of time is a LOT cheaper than the job creep costs of telling an equipment operator to stop, and do this or that, as you go along....

Another thing would be to get soil samples from your water shed and basin to get tested and find out how many tons of Ag Lime to add, per acre to bring your pH to 7.4-8.0...again, it is a LOT cheaper to spread in dry ponds.

Last, be prepared to seed ALL disturbed areas as soon as the tracks stop turning to reduce erosion and muddying. Use whatever grass seed you like on the shore, watershed, and a blend of Buck Oats, annual ryegras and wheat in the pond basin areas. As your pond fills, the flooded grasses will jump start your microscopic aquatic life....FHM can go in as soon as you have a permanent foot or two of water....
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#474625 - 06/21/17 02:33 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks Rainman!My builder said he wanted to put some of my root balls in but I told him I wasn't sure if I wanted them in there.I will plan on having him put some in.How many do you think I should put in?The pond will be 1/2-3/4 acre.Most of my trees are around 16" oak,will that matter?

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#474627 - 06/21/17 03:28 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 349
Loc: West Central Missouri
Bob, if my memory serves me, I think I have read that a pond should have about 20% structure as a rule of thumb. However, I have a hard time defining that. Is it 20% of the shoreline area or the bottom surface or the volume? Hopefully you'll get the attention of someone in the know soon. I have used about 15% of the shoreline from the 2 foot depth to the 6 foot depths of my 10 foot deep pond.

And as far as oaks go, I know I have read that there have been some problems with green oaks going in the ponds before they dried.

Here's a good read on the topic of root wads and trees as structure...

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=434384

I have used Osage Orange wads with no noticeable effect on the FHMs stocked this spring. My water is a little tea colored, but I don't think it is from my root wads alone.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel
1/4 Acre Pond - FHM, Spring Peepers, Bull, Tree, and Leopard Frogs, Toads, 200 Crawdads, and some water snakes frown


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#474629 - 06/21/17 04:05 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Jimmi Offline


Registered: 03/22/12
Posts: 47
Loc: MO
I have no regrets that I didn't have any root balls put in mine. Once put in, they're in for good. I'd rather place cover that can be move/removed if need be. If you don't aerate, the deepest part of your pond is probably going to be devoid of oxygen anyway and if that's where you put the root balls, which people often do, they would be useless for cover. If your pond ends up losing water those root balls could end up in the way with no way to get them out of the way. If you end up wanting to use your pond for geothermal and they're in the deepest part, they could also end up in the way.

Most life in a pond happens in the upper few feet. I don't feel like I gave up anything not having the root balls.
_________________________
East Central Missouri
1 1/4 acre pond, build fall 2011

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#474633 - 06/21/17 04:28 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks,I knew I had read that there could be trouble with oaks and after reading that whole thread I'm back to thinking I don't want them.lol!
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
Bob, if my memory serves me, I think I have read that a pond should have about 20% structure as a rule of thumb. However, I have a hard time defining that. Is it 20% of the shoreline area or the bottom surface or the volume? Hopefully you'll get the attention of someone in the know soon. I have used about 15% of the shoreline from the 2 foot depth to the 6 foot depths of my 10 foot deep pond.

And as far as oaks go, I know I have read that there have been some problems with green oaks going in the ponds before they dried.

Here's a good read on the topic of root wads and trees as structure...

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=434384

I have used Osage Orange wads with no noticeable effect on the FHMs stocked this spring. My water is a little tea colored, but I don't think it is from my root wads alone.

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#474634 - 06/21/17 04:31 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Jimmi]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks Jim,that is kind of the way I was thinking.
Originally Posted By: Jimmi
I have no regrets that I didn't have any root balls put in mine. Once put in, they're in for good. I'd rather place cover that can be move/removed if need be. If you don't aerate, the deepest part of your pond is probably going to be devoid of oxygen anyway and if that's where you put the root balls, which people often do, they would be useless for cover. If your pond ends up losing water those root balls could end up in the way with no way to get them out of the way. If you end up wanting to use your pond for geothermal and they're in the deepest part, they could also end up in the way.

Most life in a pond happens in the upper few feet. I don't feel like I gave up anything not having the root balls.

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#474799 - 06/24/17 05:49 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6768
Loc: St Louis, MO area
When putting in the clay liner, a moderate rain covered the basin beyond what was lined. A berm inside the basin was built to confine the water, and root balls were set on top of the ring, along with trees. At full pool, the trunk tops were about 6 inches under water. Both my fish and my kids loved this area! The kids used the stump tops as diving boards into the deep side when the pool was less than full.

Hell on getting snags, but I never minded.





And once full......
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#474804 - 06/24/17 08:39 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Rainman,what kind of trees were they?Were they green?

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#474876 - 06/26/17 09:45 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 349
Loc: West Central Missouri
RianMan will probably pop in to answer your question about the greenness of the trees and their type, but due to the lack of bark on the stumps, I would say that they are mostly seasoned. I will take a stab at the types of trees that do have bark from the first pic. Cedar on the left. Pine OR persimmon laying long and horizontal through the center of the pic and Cottonwood and/or oaks in the top right hand corner.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel
1/4 Acre Pond - FHM, Spring Peepers, Bull, Tree, and Leopard Frogs, Toads, 200 Crawdads, and some water snakes frown


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#474882 - 06/26/17 10:18 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Quarter Acre]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
RianMan will probably pop in to answer your question about the greenness of the trees and their type, but due to the lack of bark on the stumps, I would say that they are mostly seasoned. I will take a stab at the types of trees that do have bark from the first pic. Cedar on the left. Pine OR persimmon laying long and horizontal through the center of the pic and Cottonwood and/or oaks in the top right hand corner.
Thanks,I was thinking it looked like a mix and more seasoned than mine.

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#474899 - 06/26/17 03:42 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6768
Loc: St Louis, MO area
All the trees were pushed over and logged. All were also "green". Most were White Oak With a couple Black Oak and Hickory. The large Red Cedar was cut fresh and pulled into place. Some of the stumps were 30" diameter at the cuts, and all the roots were tangled around large rock and topsoil. The berm that had to be built to contain water was flattened on top and the stumps place in a semi-circle. We called it the Budweiser crown area.

Catfishing was amazing on the Dam side of the stumps where water quickly dropped from 7 to 25 feet off the shelf. The shallow side of the circle had a small submerged island, and 2 holes that where 18 feet deep...all aerated.

We also pulled out a Black Walnut that did not go into the pond, but that tree alone more than covered building costs as it was graded for veneer and the first limb was about 25" up...got a 22' long log, with the end diameters of about 34" and 26".

Near full pool in 10/2014


Low pool in 2012


The deer wallow it all started as...


Edited by Rainman (06/26/17 04:07 PM)
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#474919 - 06/26/17 11:03 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Rainman]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Originally Posted By: Rainman
All the trees were pushed over and logged. All were also "green". Most were White Oak With a couple Black Oak and Hickory. The large Red Cedar was cut fresh and pulled into place. Some of the stumps were 30" diameter at the cuts, and all the roots were tangled around large rock and topsoil. The berm that had to be built to contain water was flattened on top and the stumps place in a semi-circle. We called it the Budweiser crown area.

Catfishing was amazing on the Dam side of the stumps where water quickly dropped from 7 to 25 feet off the shelf. The shallow side of the circle had a small submerged island, and 2 holes that where 18 feet deep...all aerated.

We also pulled out a Black Walnut that did not go into the pond, but that tree alone more than covered building costs as it was graded for veneer and the first limb was about 25" up...got a 22' long log, with the end diameters of about 34" and 26".

Near full pool in 10/2014


Low pool in 2012


The deer wallow it all started as...
Thanks Rainman,are root balls less toxic than the trees?

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#474921 - 06/27/17 12:54 AM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
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Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6768
Loc: St Louis, MO area
I don't see any issue with most trees. Only tree I even know of that poses more danger than most is Black Walnut. Brush piles, green or seasoned, are fish magnets.
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#475053 - 06/28/17 03:17 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Will root balls stay put or will they try to float?

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#475074 - 06/28/17 08:46 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6768
Loc: St Louis, MO area
If the root wads are filled with the soil and rock the grew in, they will not float
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#475111 - 06/29/17 01:07 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
Thanks Rainman

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#477206 - 07/28/17 03:59 PM Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo. [Re: Bobbss]
Bobbss Offline


Registered: 10/27/16
Posts: 124
Loc: Jefferson County Missouri
My pond guy called the other day and said he should be out to start my pond before the end of next week.I won't hold my breath but that sounds great to me.lol!
Can anyone tell me how late into the year FHM will spawn?I'm hoping to get enough rain soon after and that I can get some started this year yet.


Edited by Bobbss (07/28/17 11:13 PM)

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