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#474328 - 06/17/17 07:50 AM I might be Freaking out here
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1867
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Am I freaking out for no reason? My concern is the bloom that's going on at the pond. Water secchi readings are at 10 to 12 " and the cnbg numbers at the feeders are way down. Maybe 80% less fish eating at the feeders. The water is HOT, 90 degrees in the mid day. Its been this way for the past 12 days or so.
I cut back the feeding time this year because I did not want to fight strong or excess blooms again this year. But that has not helped. I have 6 diffusers running 24/7 and thinking about cutting them off 4 hrs during the hottest time of the day, but with all the plankton in the water, I am concerned shutting them off could make water conditions worse. The last Pond Boss Magazine had an article on 12" visibility of green water and it's benefits, but dam, this 10 to 12" green water visibility is kinda of freaking me out to the point I had the elec coop come out and tell me they want $10,000 bucks to get elec to the pond. Now I am looking at solar and or generators for surface aerators, agitators. Money disposal systems. Your thoughts please
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#474330 - 06/17/17 08:02 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 23815
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I don't think shutting the aerators off for 4 hr during the heat of the day will make much difference in pond water temp. Definitely keep them running at night.

Instead of $10K running electric, what about a diesel or propane generator?

The fish slowing down eating tell you that they are stressed, either by water temp, O2 levels or both. The spawn up here is just winding down too, so that could be another reason why you are not seeing them, but if they were feeding great 1-2 weeks ago then forget I said that.

Surface agitators (either a paddlewheel or volcano) combined with bottom diffusion aeration is the only way to maximize O2 levels in a pond that is over 8' deep.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#474333 - 06/17/17 08:25 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1867
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
esshup, thanks for your thoughts. I have been looking at generators and was thinking Generac, I have one of those at the lake house where it runs off propane. But there again, the cost difference between the elec coop and the generator is not all that different. So I was thinking a smaller generator, and hoping i could get this done before i find a bunch of floaters. And yes my fish were feeding hard two weeks ago and then we had a big rain followed by this bloom and the fish quit feeding so much at the feeders.
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#474335 - 06/17/17 08:42 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1867
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I also found one 16" floating HSB yesterday at mid day. another reason for the concerns. And the 6 diffusers are running in 8 to 12 foot water depths. 4 in 10' depths, one in 12' and 1 in 8'


Edited by TGW1 (06/17/17 08:45 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

Top
#474341 - 06/17/17 10:54 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Miss.
90 F will not usually kill BG or LMB nor HSB. Fast temp changes are usually the reason for temp related die-offs. I would not slow down the air. You can knock the plankton bloom back a little with a copper spray but that has risk associated with it. Do you have an outboard motor you can use to further stir the water ?
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#474348 - 06/17/17 02:13 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1867
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
ewest, I do have an outboard I can use and is just a short distance from the pond. This morning I hooked up my Honda pump along with a sprinkler that will handle 65 gpm and kicked it off. it might help, I hope. Pump should run for at least two hours, maybe a little longer. about 8,000 gals through the sprinkler in that time frame. Not much considering pond holds about 92,000 gals per inch.
I was hoping the bloom would die back a little but if not and the water remains at 10" or less(that is my concern) what copper product would you use? What time of day would be best for applying the product and on a 3.4 acre pond how much area should I consider applying? Normally my heavy blooms will die back in a week or so but this bloom has not.


Edited by TGW1 (06/17/17 02:21 PM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#474366 - 06/17/17 10:35 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Miss.
What is your visibility ? I would not use the copper product unless you have a 10 inch or less visibility for all day.
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#474371 - 06/17/17 11:38 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 863
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Tracy, I don't know enough to suggest anything for your current situation, but perhaps for the long run you could grow more pond plants to take up some of the excess fertilizer.

One of the plants put in my pond a few weeks ago has done really well, and so far (fingers crossed) hasn't gone deeper than 2 to 3 feet. If you'd like me to fetch you some, I'd be more than happy to do so, though you'd probably need to adjust it to your temp, pH, and alkalinity.

No guarantees, but it's doing well for me so far. My BOW has cleared some, which I don't want, but might be helpful for your situation.

Let me know if I can help. If you do have a die off, I can supply CNBG and/or LSL bass. Nothing huge yet, but at least gives you a head start!


Edited by anthropic (06/18/17 12:33 AM)
_________________________
7 acre pond in east Texas, full pool reached March 2016. CNBG, RES, FHM stocked Nov 15; TP May 16; LSL bass 30 June 16.




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#474383 - 06/18/17 09:28 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1867
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Thanks Frank I knew you were a good guy smile. ewest, my visibility seems to be hanging around the 10" mark. I ran a 20hp Yamaha for a min or so and saw no tattletale water at the motor (5 yr old Yamaha) so pulled it out of the pond and checked it with a garden hose. After going through the clean out process it seems like my water pump needs a new impeller. And I just ran the thing for 10 days at white river ark. OH well, what else can happen. I am not giving up yet! I need something to hold me over till next week when I can get a paddle wheel or something. I Ran the water sprinkler for 6 hrs yesterday, and after the boat motor deal, I hope the honda pump sprinkler holds up. Sometime when it rains it pours frown

PS, now I am thinking of putting my 225hp etec at the pond and REALLY blowing some water smile


Edited by TGW1 (06/18/17 09:38 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

Top
#474389 - 06/18/17 10:30 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1354
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: TGW1
I had the elec coop come out and tell me they want $10,000 bucks to get elec to the pond. Now I am looking at solar and or generators for surface aerators, agitators. Money disposal systems. Your thoughts please


I worked for our electric co-op for 35 years, some of those years in the capacity of saying yes or no to proposed line extensions. Co-ops base their line extension policies on past experience and on pay back time for the membership as a whole. Extension of a line to a situation that might be temporary or low usage like a pond, camper, seasonal cabin, etc is usually done at full cost, because there is usually no payback due to low, intermittent, or temporary electrical usage.
YMMV
_________________________

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#474397 - 06/18/17 12:06 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
Bocomo Online   content


Registered: 05/06/12
Posts: 1017
Loc: Boone County, MO (pond)
Originally Posted By: TGW1
Am I freaking out for no reason? My concern is the bloom that's going on at the pond. Water secchi readings are at 10 to 12 " and the cnbg numbers at the feeders are way down. Maybe 80% less fish eating at the feeders. The water is HOT, 90 degrees in the mid day. Its been this way for the past 12 days or so.
I cut back the feeding time this year because I did not want to fight strong or excess blooms again this year. But that has not helped. I have 6 diffusers running 24/7 and thinking about cutting them off 4 hrs during the hottest time of the day, but with all the plankton in the water, I am concerned shutting them off could make water conditions worse. The last Pond Boss Magazine had an article on 12" visibility of green water and it's benefits, but dam, this 10 to 12" green water visibility is kinda of freaking me out to the point I had the elec coop come out and tell me they want $10,000 bucks to get elec to the pond. Now I am looking at solar and or generators for surface aerators, agitators. Money disposal systems. Your thoughts please


How far is it to the nearest power source?
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#474432 - 06/19/17 08:08 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1867
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Panola Harrison elec coop measured 1500' to get power to the pond and that was from the closest highline, it runs 1/4mi from road to the farm house. We might be able to take a shorter route but they want a 30' wide strip cut through my woods which includes a portion of 20 yr old pine plantation and 50 yr old oaks. That will not happen. even after doing that it would maybe cut only a couple hundred feet off the power run. And its not just the power but if I add total cost to get a paddlewheel or surface aerator and electricity I am looking at 13 to 15 thousand. I may be wrong or I may be to late before I get something done but I need to run down the cost of a generator and or solar with battery pac. And which aerator works best paddlewheel or Kasco 3 to 4 hp surface aerator.

PS, first time I ran the Kasco diffusers it helped to clear up the heavy blooms but not so much this year. Or maybe without the diffusers I would be looking at a worse situation. Right now I am looing at a 9 to 10" bloom that will not quit!


Edited by TGW1 (06/19/17 08:18 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#474435 - 06/19/17 08:54 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
DonoBBD Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 1719
Loc: Ontario, Canada, Eh.
I don't know if you need the air to run 24/7 for the number of fish you have but as soon as our water temp is at 60*F we run the air 10pm to 10am. First this gets the air in the pond during the plankton crash over night because there is little to no light. Secondly it keeps the pond cooler with the cooler night time temps.

I did learn about our third year the running the air 24/7 would heat the pond even being 16 feet deep up to the air temps average. If you are seeing 90+ degree days your water temp will be that.

Our perch shut off eating after the water temp gets over 75. I am guessing they just don't need the energy at that temp.
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7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.

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#474503 - 06/20/17 07:35 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1867
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I found an AirPro mobile generator at a local pawn shop they are asking $8,500 says he will take 8,000 for it. I passed on the deal and will keep looking. The pond might be getting better as I had 11" visibility yesterday around noon. I still need to make plans and get it done if I want to meet my pond goals.

Dono, everyone around here I talk to suggest I stay at 24/7 on the aerator.


Edited by TGW1 (06/20/17 07:38 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

Top
#474509 - 06/20/17 08:45 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
DonoBBD Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 1719
Loc: Ontario, Canada, Eh.
We cut ours back after I spoke with Bill. I was told to look at the rocks on the edge of the pond and if there was bubbles on them. Our whole pond had small bubbles on all the rocks. We were over aerating the pond and had the water temp rise over 80 just like you.
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7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.

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#474511 - 06/20/17 09:01 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1867
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I think one of the contributing factors of too much green water is that I cut down quite a few 7' tall willows(30 or so) along the bank at one end of the pond. I left them in the water to add cover to or for small cnbg and now I am thinking the decomposition of these trees has hurt me, along with other factors from heavy rains. I am going to pull those out today if I can.
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

Top
#474517 - 06/20/17 11:09 AM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 529
Loc: Paris, TX
Have you stopped the feeders? If you have a tractor you can get a PTO generator if this is just a temporary thing, or even get a PTO paddle wheel.


Edited by BrianL (06/20/17 11:10 AM)
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1.8 acre pond with FHM, CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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#474526 - 06/20/17 12:19 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: BrianL]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3998
Loc: SE Kansas
I wonder if in hot weather a person could move the air stations to slightly shallower water to leave a couple feet cool refuge on the bottom?

We talk about moving air stations to shallow water in winter to keep from super cooling, so why not in the hottest part of summer move the stations up a couple feet of pond depth so there is some cool water left in the deepest areas and prevent super heating?

I would prefer to keep the water moving and moving the diffusers up to keep some cool water rather than shut them off part of the day. I have no experience doing this, just seems like the right approach.


Edited by snrub (06/20/17 12:22 PM)
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snrub

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#474530 - 06/20/17 01:31 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Miss.
If you move the air stations shallow then the deeper cool water will have little to no DO very quickly in the above situation.
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#474534 - 06/20/17 01:47 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: ewest]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3998
Loc: SE Kansas
True. But don't the fish use the interface of the thermocline? I thought in lakes fish hang out there at times.

Doesn't shutting off the air stations part of the day have the effect of a thermocline starting to establish, thus creating cooler water below?


Edited by snrub (06/20/17 01:49 PM)
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#474538 - 06/20/17 02:32 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: John Fitzgerald]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 863
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Originally Posted By: John F
Originally Posted By: TGW1
I had the elec coop come out and tell me they want $10,000 bucks to get elec to the pond. Now I am looking at solar and or generators for surface aerators, agitators. Money disposal systems. Your thoughts please


I worked for our electric co-op for 35 years, some of those years in the capacity of saying yes or no to proposed line extensions. Co-ops base their line extension policies on past experience and on pay back time for the membership as a whole. Extension of a line to a situation that might be temporary or low usage like a pond, camper, seasonal cabin, etc is usually done at full cost, because there is usually no payback due to low, intermittent, or temporary electrical usage.
YMMV


John, I'm also looking at installing electricity out at my place.

Here's my questions: First, would it make any difference if the electric line was buried? In such a case, could they cut down fewer trees?

Second, assuming normal poles, how would this affect plans of controlled burn of underbrush? Apparently doesn't harm pines, but clears weeds, thistles, very small trees, etc. Should I try to get burn done before Upshur Electric comes out? Normally such burns are only conducted during winter, but perhaps it can be managed in summer.


Edited by anthropic (06/20/17 04:00 PM)
_________________________
7 acre pond in east Texas, full pool reached March 2016. CNBG, RES, FHM stocked Nov 15; TP May 16; LSL bass 30 June 16.




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#474544 - 06/20/17 03:20 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
liquidsquid Online   content


Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 1782
Loc: East Bloomfield, NY USA
What about switching to diverse style of diffusers? Not set up with a "boil" to move water so much as put air into the water column. The goal would be to aerate the lower water, but more or less leave the thermocline intact. Is that possible?
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#474551 - 06/20/17 04:32 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: TGW1]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7688
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Tracy sorry to hear about your heating up/phytoplankton bloom...I dealt with that last year and just escaped cataclysmic events by the short hairs I suspect.

I know running electricity to the pond isn't cheap, but it's one of the best things I ever did for my fishery. Just by $.02
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#474557 - 06/20/17 04:57 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: anthropic]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1354
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: anthropic
Originally Posted By: John F
Originally Posted By: TGW1
I had the elec coop come out and tell me they want $10,000 bucks to get elec to the pond. Now I am looking at solar and or generators for surface aerators, agitators. Money disposal systems. Your thoughts please


I worked for our electric co-op for 35 years, some of those years in the capacity of saying yes or no to proposed line extensions. Co-ops base their line extension policies on past experience and on pay back time for the membership as a whole. Extension of a line to a situation that might be temporary or low usage like a pond, camper, seasonal cabin, etc is usually done at full cost, because there is usually no payback due to low, intermittent, or temporary electrical usage.
YMMV


John, I'm also looking at installing electricity out at my place.

Here's my questions: First, would it make any difference if the electric line was buried? In such a case, could they cut down fewer trees?

Second, assuming normal poles, how would this affect plans of controlled burn of underbrush? Apparently doesn't harm pines, but clears weeds, thistles, very small trees, etc. Should I try to get burn done before Upshur Electric comes out? Normally such burns are only conducted during winter, but perhaps it can be managed in summer.


Normally, light controlled burns won't affect new poles, but you would need to make sure they don't catch fire at the base.

To bury a line, the cut needs to be only as wide as needed for the trencher. Normally, buried primary line at 7.2 to 14.4 kV requires a 48" trench to ensure the required 42 inches of cover. It needs to be reasonably straight, but can meander a little to avoid large trees.

It can be as expensive or more so than a pole line of the same distance, it varies. An electric cooperative, as a non profit, needs to collect enough revenue off a line extension to pay back the cost over the life of said line extension, usually figured as 30 years. Pond aeration likely won't generate enough revenue, and would very likely be considered a transient usage by the co-operative's policies. You would likely be asked to pay full cost or nearly full cost.
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#474560 - 06/20/17 05:19 PM Re: I might be Freaking out here [Re: teehjaeh57]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1039
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Tracy sorry to hear about your heating up/phytoplankton bloom...I dealt with that last year and just escaped cataclysmic events by the short hairs I suspect.

I know running electricity to the pond isn't cheap, but it's one of the best things I ever did for my fishery. Just by $.02


TJ, did you start aeration in your ponds? At one time, I thought you were not aerating. I take it you have the pump down by the pond, as opposed to running air lines down to a pond, and keeping the pumps up in a barn. I've got to run 900' to get air or elec to my bow.. Still deciding what to do. (Sorry for hijack.)
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2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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