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Joined: Jul 2009
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ok so I am hearing more and more that the BG down south wont usually last past 6 to 7 years. Well I put all my originals in my pond in 2010 and 2011. So they all must be getting close to going to the great fish heaven in the sky... So should I be keeping my 10 plus inch BG at this point? Are they gonna just die soon anyway... Ugh that's hard to take... RC P.S. So in order to get a gill to 12 inches you really better be putting the food down for them I guess? I've done everything right except a heavy feeding program and still don't have a 12 inch 2 pound BG. Course I know there not a dime a dozen either..
Last edited by RC51; 06/05/17 02:42 PM.
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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While the 10"+ is likely your original stockers, they could very will be their offspring the that next year, or a good 4 year old.
I will let the old bulls die naturally in my pond, and enjoy getting to catch them every once in a while.
Last edited by BrianL; 06/05/17 03:17 PM.
1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB Trophy Hunter feeder.
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Joined: May 2014
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My understanding is that feeding will definitely improve BG growth. However, if BG get fatty liver, this will shorten their life, so ultimate size might not improve as much as you'd think.
That's why I feed Optimal, as people I trust have said that it is formulated to avoid shortening lifespan, despite improving BG growth. Better chance of a 6 or 7 year old BG hitting 12" than a 5 year old, feed or no feed.
Of course, my oldest BG are only 2 years old, so we'll see!
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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If your goal is to grow a 2 pounder, I would not harvest your big BG. My reasoning....whenever I read about BG life expectancy I seem to always see statements like "average life span" and "typical lifespan." My take away from that is it's not unusual for some to live longer. I remember one article that said they can live to 11.
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Moderator Lunker
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Just thinking. I'm 74 and my best years are behind me. But, I'm not ready to be filleted and fried.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Just thinking. I'm 74 and my best years are behind me. But, I'm not ready to be filleted and fried. Best way to avoid that, is don't get caught in another man's pond!
Last edited by BrianL; 06/05/17 04:12 PM.
1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB Trophy Hunter feeder.
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at 10+" they're doing something right, they've got life figured out pretty well - might as well pass that on lol
Mat Peirce 1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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There are other " returns" on our pond/fish investments, than just dinner. I don't harvest my big, older bluegills. If they die naturally and sink to the bottom, then they still provided me years of enjoyment. I don't feel like I'm owed anything.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: May 2014
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Joined: May 2014
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There are other " returns" on our pond/fish investments, than just dinner. I don't harvest my big, older bluegills. If they die naturally and sink to the bottom, then they still provided me years of enjoyment. I don't feel like I'm owed anything. Obviously my BOW isn't at that stage yet, but I agree. Giant BG are just as rare as giant LMB and should be treated with equal respect. Besides, their superior genetics should be passed on!
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Editor, Pond Boss Magazine Lunker
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Editor, Pond Boss Magazine Lunker
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Offering my two cents here...In order to have very many huge bluegill, a heavy feeding program is a must. I'm hearing lots of good things about Optimal, and those folks have offered to send some food so I can learn about it, but haven't received or used any, yet. I've been able to raise many, many (several thousand) two-pound plus bluegills in a variety of pond and lake situations, using Purina's AquaMax 500...and some 600. I'm confident in that feed, as well. We've grown our biggest bluegills, in good numbers, by feeding small bursts three times per day, feeding enough that fish clean it up within 3 minutes. One thing I like about the new AquaMax MVP is that it has 9 particle sizes and the smallest sizes sink, allowing smaller fish the opportunity to feed beneath the most aggressive fish. Also, to dispel a rumor, AquaMax Sport Fish feeds do not cause fatty livers. Not sure where that rumor came from, but Dr. Mark Griffin did the research and several of the Pond Boss family participated in the program. The fish foods which can cause fat livers in bluegill or feed-trained bass are those designed for salmonids. Whichever feed you choose, be sure it has more than 40% digestible protein. Yes, you can grow bluegills beyond two pounds...as long as they are fed well. Regarding whether to keep the older ones, or not, that's a personal choice. As long as you have good control of reproduction with a thoughtful predator population, you can expect recruitment to add to the population to grow some giants. Also, plan to come to the Pond Boss VII Conference and Expo. There are experts who have done some amazing things growing big bluegills (and other fish) that don't regularly come onto this forum.
Teach a man to grow fish... He can teach to catch fish...
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Just thinking. I'm 74 and my best years are behind me. But, I'm not ready to be filleted and fried. [THREAD HIJACK]
Dave -- I'm sure that your comment brings indigestion and very scary thoughts to any poor cannibal who might see your post ...
[END THREAD HIJACK//]
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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Mostly gristle and fat. And, according to some, pretty well saturated with BS.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Pond Boss Lusk - take one of your large 3 times a day fed BG and clean it. Take a good picture of its liver. Do the same thing with a fairly large wild BG one that has not eaten pellets or one that has been feed Optimal fish food for the summer. Post all the pictures on the forum or in the magazine of their livers. Then repeat the comments in your above post. Your comment does not hold true for yellow perch. Let's see how true it is for bluegill.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/05/17 07:58 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Lunker
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every animal i know of that is larger than normal (including us humans) eats more than the rest of the population. i believe food is the most important part of the big bg equation. my res in the pond are not in the class of the bg and i think it is because they don't take pellets. also i think fish feeding time is important. right now i am feeding 1 time in the morning and twice evening. i believe feeding them right before dark is helpful. it puts them to bed on a full stomach. kinda like us eating milk and cookies right before we got to bed. if you are wanting fish to eat, maybe you could eat the 9 inch ones and let the 10 inch ones alone to see what happens.
Scott Hanners
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What about the occasional 3.5 to 4 pound BG that is wild caught every so often? Rare, but it happens. Are these freaks of nature or is it attainable in a typical southern pond with the right feeding program?
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298 |
. I've been able to raise many, many (several thousand) two-pound plus bluegills in a variety of pond and lake situations, using Purina's AquaMax 500...and some 600. I'm confident in that feed, as well. We've grown our biggest bluegills, in good numbers, by feeding small bursts three times per day, feeding enough that fish clean it up within 3 minutes. One thing I like about the new AquaMax MVP is that it has 9 particle sizes and the smallest sizes sink, allowing smaller fish the opportunity to feed beneath the most aggressive fish. Also, to dispel a rumor, AquaMax Sport Fish feeds do not cause fatty livers. Not sure where that rumor came from, but Dr. Mark Griffin did the research and several of the Pond Boss family participated in the program. The fish foods which can cause fat livers in bluegill or feed-trained bass are those designed for salmonids. Whichever feed you choose, be sure it has more than 40% digestible protein. Yes, you can grow bluegills beyond two pounds...as long as they are fed well. Regarding whether to keep the older ones, or not, that's a personal choice. As long as you have good control of reproduction with a thoughtful predator population, you can expect recruitment to add to the population to grow some giants. Also, plan to come to the Pond Boss VII Conference and Expo. There are experts who have done some amazing things growing big bluegills (and other fish) that don't regularly come onto this forum. Bob, as I know from personal experience, your two cents are worth a lot more than pennies! I'm glad to hear AquaMax grows 2 pound BG. Truth is, I've never caught a BG exceeding a pound in my life. My comment about fatty liver was not directed at AquaMax. However, I have seen images of fatty liver problems caused by other feeds, and heard testimony about such issues shortening BG life. I wish Optimal had a mixture of sinking feed, like AM MVP. Perhaps due to my infertile water, BG recruitment is an issue and my surviving YOY have been few, unlike the LMB. This despite loads of beds, mostly in the pebble areas you planned. Thanks for doing a great job with Pond Boss. Looking forward to attending the Forum and learning more!
Last edited by anthropic; 06/06/17 12:14 AM.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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(snip) One thing I like about the new AquaMax MVP is that it has 9 particle sizes and the smallest sizes sink, allowing smaller fish the opportunity to feed beneath the most aggressive fish. Also, to dispel a rumor, AquaMax Sport Fish feeds do not cause fatty livers. Not sure where that rumor came from, but Dr. Mark Griffin did the research and several of the Pond Boss family participated in the program. (snip) Bob, I have two questions regarding the research that Dr. Griffin did for Purina, and the food that he developed. Since Purina has changed where and who produces the Aquamax and Sportfish feed for them, and since Dr. Griffin is no longer with the company, have the fish food formula and ingredients (including vitamins and oils) changed in any way since he developed the food? What year was it when he developed the food? I agree with Bill Cody, I'd love to see pictures!!!!
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Ambassador Lunker
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Hey everyone thanks for the responses. I don't keep my largest fish to eat I usually keep that 7 to 9 inch range for the skillet, but I was just wondering how true the statement was about a 6 to 7 year lifespan. I just cant seem to keep them big ones and have to let them go in hopes they may reach 12 inches. I only feed twice a day though so I may up that to 3 times but small bursts like Bob says. Course I am not sure I don't have a 12 incher just haven't caught him yet... It all just got me thinking as all my big BG's are now 6 to 7 years old so just a little worried there all gonna start to bite it... Would love to come to the PBC! But that's opening weekend of Muzzle Loader here and can't miss that. If you can though post some good video would love to watch some of it if possible. RC
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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Notice the difference in feeding amounts...Bob sees best growth feeding smaller bursts three times a day, with cleanup times of three minutes. Not the ten minute cleanup that's recommended often.
Wonder how the feeding response is, using Bob's method? At the three minute interval, are the fish still hammering the feed or has response slowed/stopped? What about pond size? I've been thinking lately that I've underestimated that variable in terms of importance.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Yes right now I feed at 8 am for 2 seconds and once at 7pm for 1 second.
The 2 second burst I would say is close to 2 mins worth maybe a little less. I think if I did. 3, 3 second bursts I would be real close to the 3 minute mark for me. I need to actually time it once I guess.
I never was a fan of throwing so much food out there it takes 10 or 15 minutes to clear up not that it wrong but... thats a LOT of food!! IMO. And like I said I am only supplement feeding also. I want my fish to live off the pond as much as they live off the food I am giving them.
RC
Last edited by RC51; 06/06/17 10:18 AM.
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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Notice the difference in feeding amounts...Bob sees best growth feeding smaller bursts three times a day, with cleanup times of three minutes. Not the ten minute cleanup that's recommended often.
Wonder how the feeding response is, using Bob's method? At the three minute interval, are the fish still hammering the feed or has response slowed/stopped? What about pond size? I've been thinking lately that I've underestimated that variable in terms of importance. I feed in shorter burst. I normally feed 3 times a day three burst pre feeding. I feed 3-9 seconds per spin and food is usually gone in 30-40 seconds.
Last edited by BrianL; 06/06/17 11:09 AM.
1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB Trophy Hunter feeder.
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Ambassador Lunker
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9 seconds? I guess some of this depends maybe on feeder type. I have a make shift deer feeder which I believe throws more food. I would have food everywhere if I threw food for 9 seconds at a time.... Yikes.. bob said short bursts I wish he would have given a time on it. Short bursts can mean a lot of things to other folks... lol
RC
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Another item - Shorter life span may not actually be due to fatty livers but some other unhealthy items in the food that shortens the life span; maybe too many carbohydrates?. How many carbohydrates and excess fats do wild BG have in their diet????? Research by Dr. Griffin is likely dated and maybe not a complete biochemical, physiological workup of the fish was performed. Maybe the study was primarily a growth study comparison. Are the research methods for that study available for reading? I doubt very much the longevity of the fish was considered when Dr.Griffin conducted his study. Plus I doubt other food manufactures consider life span when developing food formulae.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/06/17 11:28 AM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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9 seconds? I guess some of this depends maybe on feeder type. I have a make shift deer feeder which I believe throws more food. I would have food everywhere if I threw food for 9 seconds at a time.... Yikes.. bob said short bursts I wish he would have given a time on it. Short bursts can mean a lot of things to other folks... lol
RC Mine throws 1/2 pound every 6 seconds. I agree, time would be an inaccurate way of comparing how much each different type feeder feeds. Your feeder could throw more in two seconds than mine does in 20 seconds.
Last edited by BrianL; 06/06/17 11:47 AM.
1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB Trophy Hunter feeder.
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Yeah I have never put a bag around it either and tested it as to how much 2 or 3 or 4 seconds puts in the bag. Guess I need to do a little more testing...
RC
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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