Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations growing extra large lmb with crappie as a forage

Part of what makes this project interesting is learning how much effort is required for each pond. My guess is that the XL pond will be the easier of the two.

If the crappie are kept at reasonable density in the XL LMB pond of 3.5 acre, IMO the crappie will not do much to limit the density of YOY and juvenile LMB. LMB density will still need to be manually reduced. It is likely the adult crappie will not produce good spawns each Spring that can result in sporadic poor crappie recruitment for some years as evidenced by crappie behavior in some of the other member's ponds. Crappie are notorious for unpredictable recruitment. If TGW1 goes ahead with this plan, this discussion and the actual results will be very educational for all those interested in this topic. This topic has been placed in the Common Pond Q&A Archives under Crappie In Ponds - PB Forum View.

As I understand it, in the two pond scenario, it doesn't matter if the crappie eat every one of the yoy bass in the trophy bass pond. The only goals of the XL LMB pond are as many as possible and as big as possible XL LMB. These bass will be stocked in the pond as 14” fish. The “work” is figuring out the best way to reach those goals. Most of the management problems would be typical of pond management in general, e.g., providing the best possible habitat. What isn't typical is that balance isn't a goal. The forage base for the LMB should be self sustaining and super abundant. Supplementing with trout or perhaps other species is another matter. Mostly BG and crappie have been talked about as the forage for the trophy bass, but this is an area where the “work” has to be focused. Whatever species are chosen, they would not be managed for a reasonable density, but rather, it would be hoped that they would increase to the greatest possible density. As was stated earlier, BG were chosen as probable candidates because they spawn several times during the year and crappie because they typically produce a very large number of yoy. But other forage species certainly might be added to provide the ideal self sustaining forage base in this atypical pond. Crappie, as has been pointed out, are erratic spawners.

turtlemtn, many here know I am a new to growing fish. I am now in my 14th month. I could not be where I am without the help and recommendations of several good experienced people here and with Todd and Walt from Overtons fishery. I have to say from day one, I understood small ponds like mine(3.5 acres) should not be stocked with crappie. I have been told there are only a few here in Texas (at this time) that are following the same path as me as per stocking rates of BG, and RES along with TFS and Tp and the Texas Legacy LMB (formally known as the Camelot Bell LMB). And as you said, my goal is to grow as many XL LMB (double digit) that I can. I have watched my BG grow to 7+" and I have seen how Tp can reproduce to the point of taking over the feeders and can be seen every where, if introduced prior to stocking your lmb fingerlings. It has been a great ride and I am looking forward to the next 14 months. My goals continue and I have learned the pond may need supplemental stocking (grow out pond here), recommended to me for supplemental stocking of Tp, as the lmb grow. I see a possible gap in the forage base during our winter months as the Tp die off. It's true the lmb become less active and feed less during this time but they still feed. So, the crappie looks interesting, I like the shape of an 8" crappie, looks much easier for a XL lmb to swallow verses an 8" BG. So for now I wait and wait for ewest article on crappie to come out in the next PBM. Be patient, esshup says. Now I wonder, about what Bill Cody said of Unpredictable Recruitment. Boy O Boy. Take the untraveled road ??

Tracy

Tracy

Tracy -

What is your depth and water temp? You may want to consider supplemental stocking of trout to feed and fatten your bass.

Tracy,

Considering just the question of what goes in the pond with the 14” and larger bass: One goal is the greatest concentration of the most desirable forage species. Some forage species are both prey and predator, and crappie are a good example. Crappie will eat many of the smaller fish and may be more of a negative than a positive. Without crappie, other forage species would have a better chance of surviving, and you might more successfully experiment with other species. You could add various species at various times if there weren't something in the pond that would eat them as fast as you planted them. If you stocked LMB of only one sex, you would eliminate a source of competition for the big bass, i.e., their own young. And you might be able to eliminate the need for a second pond if you didn't necessarily want a second pond.

Personally? I'd rather stock RBT in the Fall or transfer adult GHS from the forage pond to the 3.5 ac pond than take the chance on stocking Crappie.

esshup, I hear ya!! I might have to beg, barrow or steal them from Todd. I have not priced them because I don't think they will be necessary this year due to all the forage fishies in the pond, but I may have to entertain that idea, after reading ewest article in Jan. Feb issue of POND Boss magazine. Where he wrights of reduced forage numbers on yr 3 or 4 in lmb ponds.
I knew of supplemental forage fish stocking but I don't think I really understood the why's and why not's until ewest wrote this article. I really, really want a pond with more than normal, higher numbers of XL LMB. XL LMB = 10+lb lmb. I also consider better catch rates of these fish when lower numbers of forage drops, like when the Tp die off, should make the lmb an easier catch. And I think higher numbers of XL LMB might also improve the catch rates, assuming they are not educated to fishing lures. GHS ??

Tracy

If it were me I would work on removing the offspring of your initial stocking of LMB, any LMB under 8 - 9" I would consider part of the forage base.

I would stick with BG and GSH, IMO adult GSH will whack more LMB fry than the crappie will.

Tracy, GHS should have been GSH. Golden Shiners.

Just remember the amount of forage fish in the pond combined with the LMB in the pond cannot exceed the carrying capacity of the pond. That's the problem with holding an excessive number of LMB. The amount of forage fish needed in the pond to keep them growing fast pushes the carrying capacity limits, especially if (for instance) year 5 you have a drought and the pond water level drops considerably, and the pond water temp rises. Combine that with a bloom due to the extra nutrients in the reduced water volume and you have a recipe for a summer kill.

Starting year 3, I would make durn sure I had emergency aeration equipment waiting in the wings if I was pushing the carrying capacity of my pond. There isn't enough time to go buy the equipment once a problem is noticed.

Tracy,

I don't recall seeing anything about the vegetation in your pond, or if you have or will put anything in the pond to help establish the base of the food chain, e.g., shrimp, scud, daphnia. I think I remember crawfish.

esshup, I was sure Golden shiner was miss typed because I misstype most everything But was thinking Golden Heron something or other. hehe And plans to aerate are getting closer, maybe this coming fall. And Shorty, I added about 50 GSH from two bucket stockings left over from a couple of crappie fishing trips. They were maybe 2.5" in length but I have never seen them since then. Added them prior to stocking the lmb fingerlings but they may have turned out to be treats after all. The lmb grew pretty fast. More thought may have to go into stocking GSH. Turtlemtn, my vegetation attempt cost me $1300.00 + and I might have gotten 2 or 3 plants from that first attempt. so i trapped 4 grass shrimp I trapped but I m sure the cnbg and res took care of those, so I have been waiting to see if I can get some veggies going before I make a stronger attempt to restock the shrimp. I feed the cnbg and the Tp and the FHM's. And pond has been fertilized on more than three occasions and that kept the water to the 18" visibility and provides food to the little ones in the pond.

Tracy

Tracy,

That's sure a shame about the vegetation. That's an area you might want to explore more with the forum. There are many possibilities with pond plants – seemingly endless variables.

You might raise crustaceans, e.g., shrimp, scud, or daphnia, in a tank in your garage, basement, or barn this winter to transplant to your pond in the spring. I'm just learning about these critters, but in general they appear easy to raise and you could keep adding them to your pond throughout the year. Some people have said they've had good luck with some of these without vegetation in their pond. I plan to experiment with my pond. It has essentially no vegetation and very few small forage fish. There is no cover for them. I planted a few eel grass plants in late fall and have seed of a couple other species ordered, but they have to be kept damp, and the supplier is afraid they will freeze, so no seeds for a while. I also have scud ordered, and they may arrive soon.

You have a lot to think through with your project - the “work” that was previously mentioned. I'm wondering about the wisdom of using crappie. It seems there are many other species that would be easier for you and for the bass to handle.

Bill have not seen any signs of any BCP recruitment at all from the initial spawn the first year. This is going on year 4