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#471388 - 05/08/17 08:56 AM Recent water level increase and spawning success
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
My pond had been down 4'+ from full for the last six months, mostly due to a prolonged drought in my area. Earlier this spring I spotted a few YP ribbons, but the pond level came up 2' right after that, due some heavy rains. It stayed there for a few weeks, and I was seeing beds along the bank the RES, and (I guess) my HBG had made. (I've not seen if my SMB have ever used the gravel beds I've made for them.)
Right after the beds were spotted for the RES and HBG, we had another big rain event. (7-8") and now the pond is full again, adding another 2'+ to the water level.
The question is, what's all the water level increases doing to the success or non success of the eggs, or fry? I do have some weeds that had grown along the bank, now submerged, which might provide some cover.
I'm sure water temps have been all over the place with all the rain water coming in. Don't know if that affects the survival rates.

The last time I was there I was surprised to still see some FHM working the pond edge, where the wind had blown feed to the banks. I've got pallets floating for them. I'm amazed they have lasted this long with HBG, SMB, and HSB in the pond. I've even seen the RES working them. Yet they still survive. Maybe it's the sunken cedar trees. The cover is good enough??
Thanks,
Jeff
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#471390 - 05/08/17 09:09 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 300
Loc: West Central Missouri
Hey Jeff,

Just a thought on water temps as my pond has been filling for the first time since de-mucked last year and I had installed FHM before these recent rains. My pond came up about 3 feet over a long weekend and temps crossed my mind. I do not have any temp readings, but I am thinking that the pond water temps did not vary much from the rain water temps. Since it's spring and the pond has not had much time to warm and the rain was not part of a real cold front, I am betting that the water temp swing was minimal. Not sure if that's worth two cents, but my thoughts are free.

As far as rising water, I'm sure it had an affect on eggs hatching, but that is definitely out of my wheel house.

I, too, have some grass and land plants that are now submerged and the frogs are loving these weeds to lay their eggs on and the toad tadpoles seem to enjoy hiding in them although there are no predators in the pond yet. You should get some benefit from the submerged land plants while they last.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel
1/4 Acre Pond - FHM, Spring Peepers, Bull, Tree, and Leopard Frogs, Toads, tons of tadpoles, and some water snakes frown


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#471409 - 05/08/17 11:48 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Thx. We feel like we should rename our pond, Tadpole Pond, because once they get started, they take over. I'm hoping something comes along to correct them. Right now we have millions of big bullfrog tadpoles, plus every spring we get millions of the leopard frog, and all the toad tadpoles. Nothing feeds on tadpoles, at least nothing around our pond will eat them. Sometimes it looks like rain on the water, with all the tadpoles coming up to breath.
I've got a lot of fish in my pond, so I'm not sure I care that much if I have/had a successful spawn, but the fry are also forage for the more mature fish. I guess it's less supplemental feed I have to buy.. If my tadpole population ever decreases, I'll be able to catch something besides tadpoles in the traps, and I'll see if my fish really are reproducing.


Edited by SetterGuy (05/08/17 12:06 PM)
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#471410 - 05/08/17 12:11 PM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1463
Loc: West Michigan
SetterGuy, you are MISSING out on a big cash windfall!! Bullfrog tadpoles sell for $2 a piece for smaller numbers and $1 a piece for larger quantities on ebay.

They ship pretty well with 2 day shipping option. I know I wouldn't mind increasing my frog diversity and maybe getting a population of bullfrogs going in my northern pond.

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#471473 - 05/08/17 10:59 PM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: canyoncreek]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
SetterGuy, you are MISSING out on a big cash windfall!! Bullfrog tadpoles sell for $2 a piece for smaller numbers and $1 a piece for larger quantities on ebay.

They ship pretty well with 2 day shipping option. I know I wouldn't mind increasing my frog diversity and maybe getting a population of bullfrogs going in my northern pond.


Hey,, I could at least swing the cost of aeration! I'll have to check into it, if you are serious. It takes just a few minutes to catch 100s.
Grandson
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#471474 - 05/08/17 11:09 PM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
John F Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1305
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Tadpoles proliferate in new ponds. As the ponds age, they reach a balance of much less numbers. The first and second springs of ponds see the most tadpoles. This is only based on my own experience. Maybe it's because of the predators being too small and few in numbers the first couple of years to make much difference. Large LMB and CC will catch and consume adult frogs.


Edited by John F (05/08/17 11:17 PM)
_________________________

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#471490 - 05/09/17 08:42 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Well, I haven't stocked CC or LMB. I don't think my HSB, or SMB will do much with the bullfrogs. We swim in our pond a lot, and my wife won't get in if there's snakes, so the only predators I have for the bullfrogs are a GBH, or me..

I'm going to assume there isn't much known about water level changes, and its effect on spawning success..
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#471496 - 05/09/17 10:31 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
John F Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1305
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Setterguy,
Our local fisheries biologist says an increased water level around spawning time is good for fry survival. If the nests become too deep, according to him, the fish will likely re-spawn.
_________________________

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#471506 - 05/09/17 11:25 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18750
Loc: Miss.
Large water level rises and falls are an "it depends" question. They can help or hurt in any given situation. Turbidity is also a question. In most cases the fish adjust and do fine.

Does the water now look like that pictured above? If so you should be in good shape.


Edited by ewest (05/09/17 11:27 AM)
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#471511 - 05/09/17 12:11 PM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Hope to finally see it next week. The water has all come up in the last three weeks. I've been down after getting my right ankle rebuilt. (No hardware, just tendons)

If the nests got too deep, it's good to hear the will respawn. Definitely have more cover for fry, due to submerged weeds. I've got strep banks, so little if any plant growth along the banks.

I've had my neighbor looking in, and we talk by phone. I know the level has gotten up to the bottom of my feeder, but not submerged the lower motor. It also hasn't gone out the overflow pipe yet. During the long draught I moved the feeder lower, because it was too far to the water's edge. Typically during past rain events it does not get that cloudy, and clears up pretty quickly. The water coming in comes down through the woods, or two alfalfa fields. Into a rocky stream bed. I'll see it next week, and report back. Curious about a lot of things going on in the last three weeks. It'll be nine months before I'm back to 100% on the ankle.


Edited by SetterGuy (05/09/17 12:13 PM)
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#472261 - 05/19/17 10:12 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Well, something has spawned. Looks like my FHMs are doing alright.
(The dog won't stay out of the water. That's why it's a bit cloudy.

http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Wildwoo...A1A25C.mp4.html

Also, with the big rains of a week ago, my pond is up to the bottom of my feeder! My right ankle is still locked in a boot from recent reconstruction surgery. I can't get in the pond and move it. Already had .7" rain this morning. My feeder may be in trouble. (At least the lower motor.)
Lots of pollen on the water. The wind picked up out of the south, and it almost formed a crust on the north end of the pond.



Edited by SetterGuy (05/19/17 10:24 AM)
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#472263 - 05/19/17 10:35 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Looks like my millions of tadpoles, have dropped off, also! I might actually be able to catch something beside tadpoles in the minnow, and fish traps.
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#472266 - 05/19/17 10:58 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 300
Loc: West Central Missouri
It seems a bit early for the tadpoles to have emerged, I wonder what has caused them to drop off. If you check my pond in the morning time the tadpoles are all but non existent, but let the sun warm things a bit and there they are in massive numbers. You can see their little legs but they are far from leaving the water. I did read that toad-poles will also secrete a nasty tasting substance like the actual toads that can make them less appealing to being eaten. If that's the case, the toads at my place will be biblical here pretty soon. I have no fish in the pond to try to eat them and there are a ba-gillion of them.

It's good to see your FHM's established, my stocked 1000 count hardly shows themselves. I have witnessed a few males defending pallet/rock nests and one small group of what appeared to be females schooling, but no fry at this point. They have only been in the pond for a month and conditions have been up and down. I am anxiously waiting.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel
1/4 Acre Pond - FHM, Spring Peepers, Bull, Tree, and Leopard Frogs, Toads, tons of tadpoles, and some water snakes frown


Top
#472322 - 05/20/17 08:50 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Had three more inches of rain yesterday. I'm thinking my feeder is in serious trouble..
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#472324 - 05/20/17 09:14 AM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3988
Loc: SE Kansas
My dad always hammered into us kids heads never to leave farm equipment in the flood plain. Didn't matter if it was a sunny day and tomorrow predicted the same. We always drove the tractors out of the creek bottoms at the end of the day. He said he had seen it flood every month of the year, it could happen fast, and he was not into swimming equipment out of flood waters.

That always stuck in my mind, his insistance, and I have always been thoughtful about potentially rising water levels.

Hope your feeder is ok. Probably nothing new electronics will not fix.

Edit: if it does get flooded take the circuit boards out, wash them with fresh water, and let them dry in the sun a couple days (or hair dryer). It is surprising what some circuit boards will take. The biggest thing that does them in is having power applied while wet. Do not repower them till they are bone dry. Some components will not take water. Other things like fixed resistors and ceramic capacitors usually ok. So depends on whats on the board........


Edited by snrub (05/20/17 09:23 AM)
_________________________
snrub

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#472771 - 05/28/17 12:36 PM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Looks like my RES and HBG had a successful spawn. In spite of 20"+ rain.
Possibly my RES and HBG are crossing.
What do you experts say?
Thanks,
Jeff


Attachments
IMG_0142.JPG (43 downloads)
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IMG_0147.JPG (28 downloads)
IMG_0146.JPG (32 downloads)

_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#472780 - 05/28/17 03:02 PM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3988
Loc: SE Kansas
Let them grow about another inch and it will be a lot easier.

Hard enough to tell at that size seeing them live. Doubly hard looking at pics.

Last two pics are likely RES.

Good news is, I'm pretty sure none are pure GSF. grin

Your HBG SHOULD be mostly males. A male GSF and a female RES is an unusual cross naturally. Can happen artifically but not normal naturally. RES male and GSF female will easily cross if the female GSF has limited partner choices. But is a HBG male more like a BG male or GSF male when it comes to potential crossing with RES? In other words, is a HBG male and RES female also unlikely naturally???

Inquiring minds would like to know.

A magnifying glass I believe would help to see the tiny red tab on 2" fish. Problem is, you would know if they had RES genetics but still not know if they were pure.

I bet they will be a pretty good sunfish to catch even if you do get a few HBG/RES hybrids.


Edited by snrub (05/28/17 03:12 PM)
_________________________
snrub

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#472786 - 05/28/17 04:57 PM Re: Recent water level increase and spawning success [Re: SetterGuy]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1033
Loc: NE Missouri
Thanks Snrub
I've caught a few RES in the last few years, but haven't kept any. I guess that's why I'm not really trying to catch them. My "eating" fish are the YP. Some day I suspect I'll be keeping some SMB and HSB. Once they are big enough, and I can catch one (HSB). Ha! I'll catch a few more of these fry in a few weeks, and see if they are easier to identify. What detail should I try to get in the picture, to make identification easier?
Thx
_________________________
2 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top

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