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#461757 - 01/10/17 01:30 PM Re: 9 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 11990
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Koenders was the 1st common unit on the aeration market. Others jumped on the windmill aeration bandwagon. Newer units saw ways to improve on the original. This could explain the better performance in winter for you in Colorado. I realize you do not have access to electricity at your location. From what I can tell in the picture an electrical unit would provide a larger open area. Hopefully what you currently have will help reduce the winterkill. Update us in spring about your results this winter.
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#461760 - 01/10/17 01:50 PM Re: 9 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
Thanks Bill. I agree 100% and will do. I am working on a solar setup for up there but as you can imagine it is not cheap so it may have to progress in stages.

I do think both windmills have their place. The American Eagle does not produce the pressure that the koenders will. In the summer, I have the koenders diffuser in 22'-23' of water. The Eagle can only go down to 16'. This is what was making me ask questions about diffuser area of influence. The Eagle makes a TON more air though. You can clearly see a difference in the size of the plumes when they are both sitting at the same depth.

Plus, the Eagle truly is built like a tank in comparison.


Edited by wbuffetjr (01/12/17 08:01 AM)

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#462564 - 01/24/17 01:38 PM Re: 9 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
13 days since I have seen open water. Had a couple storms come thru and put down some snow, but nothing too crazy. Unfortunately the storms didn't bring any wind with them. Hope this isn't the end of the open hole until Spring.



Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:16 AM)

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#463351 - 02/07/17 08:48 AM Re: 9 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
esshup Online   content
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
In my recent phone conversation with Koenders, they said their current electric system furnishes 2.2 cfm air, their older systems furnished 1.1 cfm air. Older systems, either electric or windmill supplied the same volume of air. Newer electric systems have a different diaphragm so they are the ones furnishing 2.2 cfm. Windmills still are at 1.1 cfm.
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#464399 - 02/19/17 09:21 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
How about this pic for the cover of an issue of PB Magazine??? Actually caught the windmill spinning like crazy.

Over a month with no hole now. Had a 2 or 3 day period with some real good winds last week. The snow over the diffusers turned noticeably grey and it looked like the windmills were going to poke a hole through, but they never made it. Got a little bit of snow since then.




Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:16 AM)

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#465216 - 02/27/17 01:56 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
After 43 days I finally have a hole open!!!! It is small, but I will take it. Surprisingly, it is from the Koenders! Huge winds today and tomorrow so maybe the Eagle will open a hole up also! I wonder how much this hole helps??? Going to be very interesting to see if we still have fish this Spring!



Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:18 AM)

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#465219 - 02/27/17 02:43 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
4CornersPuddle Offline


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 181
Loc: southwest Colorado
Congrats on the opening in your ice. We're getting high winds here in Dolores area too.
Here's I thought I had for you a couple of days ago. I don't have any knowledge or experience with this concept, but perhaps it could help you out.
On your pond you have thick ice covered with heavy snow. Your ice could be a few feet thick; your snow is certainly several feet deep. In addition to windmill generated aeration lifting warmer water from the pond depths working on the ice, is there some way to harness solar energy to assist the ice melting? PV generated electricity could energize a grid or other device at the surface, melting the snow that accumulates above the heater. A closed loop of non freezing liquid could circulate, transferring solar panel heat to coils on the pond surface.
This ice melting device would be stationed, of course, right above your aerators. As you certainly understand, this additional heat energy could be just enough to help the aerator stream blow open a hole.
Some of us have helped our aerators get started at time by cutting even a small hole in the ice above the aerator with seemingly miraculous results.
I'm guessing you weren't able to install a darkly colored pole or pipe last summer to try to speed up ice melting?
Hope a little of this can help.
BTW, ice on our pond, which in past years has gotten as thick as 17" and persisted for 4 months, did not form until into January this year and was gone two weeks later, never to return!

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#465261 - 02/28/17 07:09 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
4corners I think you are definitely right, there is some way to assist the diffusers. Unfortunately, when I am up there I am on a short time line and end up running around like a mad man trying to knock out a huge list. Last summer I was planning on putting in a pipe and a black floating PVC apparatus to try to help, but I just didn't get to it. I half way felt ok about not getting to it because I figured the 2nd windmill would do the trick. This Summer I am putting in a solar system to run the cabin and especially the aeration while we are gone to hopefully kill this problem once and for all.

I also noticed slightly less ice up there. Of course I cannot be there to measure thickness, but from the remote camera pics I saw that the ice up there formed a little over two weeks later this year. At this point up there I will take any little advantage I can get.

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#466982 - 03/17/17 02:23 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains


Now THAT is a welcome sight!!


Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:19 AM)

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#467529 - 03/23/17 07:57 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
Crazy year! I could possibly have some ice off over a month early! Koenders has had a big hole open for a few days now and the American Eagle looks like it punched thru today. Big storm up there tonight though with up to 16" of snow possible. Hopefully the holes survive!



Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:19 AM)

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#467533 - 03/23/17 09:01 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5311
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Looks good. IME all that dark gray area is where the aeration is bubbling water out of the holes and running it under the snow making it more translucent. That lets more light into the pond in that entire area.


Edited by Bill D. (03/23/17 09:10 PM)
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#467615 - 03/25/17 02:51 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
Gotcha Bill!

We got a little set back up there, but the holes did survive. More snow in the forecast over the next few days, but I think we about got this winter behind us up there. Hopefully......

Got a buddy going up soon in his snowcat to plow the road for me. In 20 years there has never been a vehicle to the cabin before June 1st. Huge snow drifts and lots of North facing just doesn't allow it. If he plows the road, all that changes. I could possibly know if fish survived by mid to late April!



Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:20 AM)

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#469790 - 04/17/17 04:00 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
Well..... Back to where I was almost a month ago, LOL. Actually a little ahead. Starting to see some grass through the snow this go around. So close to open water I can almost taste it.....

My buddy is supposed to go up in his Snow Cat this weekend. If we had some open water he could check for some signs of life!!



Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:21 AM)

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#469836 - 04/18/17 11:55 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
esshup Online   content
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Looking good. Is that windmill almost in the water?
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#469839 - 04/18/17 12:54 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: esshup]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
Originally Posted By: esshup
Looking good. Is that windmill almost in the water?


It was not last year, but when it fills up to the new water line (up 2.5') this Spring, that windmill will be 30' out in the water. It kind of looks like the water is creeping up on it now.


Edited by wbuffetjr (04/18/17 12:55 PM)

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#470384 - 04/25/17 02:15 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
So close to having some real open water


and then...... more snow.... with even more on the way! Lol


Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:22 AM)

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#470905 - 05/01/17 07:04 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
I am assuming I am the last guy on PB with a frozen pond! Got somewhere between 1' and 2' of snow over the weekend. HOPEFULLY this was the last snow for this year....



Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:23 AM)

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#471445 - 05/08/17 04:34 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
What a difference a week of Colorado sun can make! Now to try to get someone up there so see if the fish are alive!


Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:23 AM)

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#471565 - 05/10/17 12:14 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
4CornersPuddle Offline


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 181
Loc: southwest Colorado
Not to rain (snow) on your parade, but we can see freshies above 9000' on the San Juans today. Hope your 8 acres keep on thawing.

The week of sunny weather you mentioned finally turned on the turkey gobbling around here. Hens finally appear to be nesting; gobblers find themselves alone sometime in the morning and are way vocal.

These Merriams turkeys travel way up high into the spruce fir forests in summer. Have you seen any up at your place?

When lakes in the high country are only ice free for 3 or 4 months of the year, it makes a guy wonder how any fish can prosper in them!

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#471629 - 05/10/17 05:13 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: 4CornersPuddle]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
Originally Posted By: 4CornersPuddle
Not to rain (snow) on your parade, but we can see freshies above 9000' on the San Juans today. Hope your 8 acres keep on thawing.

The week of sunny weather you mentioned finally turned on the turkey gobbling around here. Hens finally appear to be nesting; gobblers find themselves alone sometime in the morning and are way vocal.

These Merriams turkeys travel way up high into the spruce fir forests in summer. Have you seen any up at your place?

When lakes in the high country are only ice free for 3 or 4 months of the year, it makes a guy wonder how any fish can prosper in them!


4 Corners, luckily in the pic from today it doesn't look like our place got any more snow. Even if we did, at this point I am happy as long as the lake doesn't freeze back over which I highly doubt will happen. Now I just have to get someone back up there to verify if the fish lived or not. Hopefully this weekend.

I should preface this next paragraph by saying we are only 3 or 4 years into a recovery from what everyone I know on the mountain considered a serious lion problem. Everyone was seeing them and hunters were having run ins. I had 3 close encounters personally. Our deer numbers were horrendous and small game was non existent.

So, I have never seen a Turkey at our place. I have recently started seeing them a little lower though. For the last two Summers we have had a resident flock or two that seems to hang around 8,500-9,000'. They seem to be doing well and multiplying. I hadn't seen a Grouse at our place in over a decade until last Summer. Saw a momma with a string of babies so they are finally back as well. I also saw more deer last Summer than I have seen in a LONG LONG time. Now, if only it could be a decade until I saw another lion I would be very very happy!

EDIT:
I know what you mean about the mountain lakes! It is tough conditions for sure!


Edited by wbuffetjr (05/10/17 05:22 PM)

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#471781 - 05/12/17 10:21 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
And just like that, there is water!


Edited by wbuffetjr (08/08/17 10:24 AM)

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#472320 - 05/20/17 08:38 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 666
Loc: in the mountains
Well, got some great news!! Buddy went up (even with hail coming down) to investigate the situation. He found zero dead fish, zero dead crayfish and zero dead fish smell!!!!! Now, I know that does not mean we didn't have some or even all the fish die. However, last year there were a few visible dead fish, the shallows were littered with dead crayfish, there were crayfish shells and claws all along the shoreline where coons or something had been eating the easy pickings and there was a noticeable smell of dead fish. This year he said he couldn't find one single dead crayfish! I am trying to hold off on claiming victory until we actually see some live fish BUT.... VICTORY!!!! Lol

I am fairly certain our average depth is over 10' which is what I was shooting for.

I can't wait to get some DO readings.

I think once we get the solar system installed up there this Summer it will be the nail in the coffin for our Winter kill issues!



Edited by wbuffetjr (10/13/17 01:14 PM)

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#472531 - 05/23/17 08:24 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
esshup Online   content
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Congrats!! My sheriff buddy there said they got 6" of snow recently.......
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#472533 - 05/23/17 08:39 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
NEDOC Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
This thread is so much fun to follow. Thank you for keeping us updated.
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#472537 - 05/23/17 09:42 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1768
Loc: East Texas
Scott,
Six inches of snow will not have the thermal mass to refreeze the pond surface. Any partial covering will melt very quickly. Also, I think another diffuser has been turned on, so there is another potential hole source as well if it does. I think they are out of the ice woods for now.

It may still snow again, but the inertia is going the right way. Extra water, extra O2, and reduced harmful gasses is all good.
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