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My water test show pH in the 7 to 8 range depending on when checked. The Alk is at or around 100 to 110 and the water hardness is 45 to 50 depending on who is reading the end point. I checked on raising my water hardness using Gypsum and discovered the Gyp has to be bulk ordered out of Okla. My water additions from the water well lowers my hardness so I add agg lime to increase pH and water hardness but 45 to 50 ppm is as high as I can get it. Do you guys think it would be to my advantage to get some gyp headed my way to raise the hardness to the 200 or so range? Also considering additions of agg lime and gyp when adding or transferring larger amounts water from bayou and or future ponds.

I am also looking into buying a diaphragm trash pump (trailer mounted) for moving some water around in the future. I know very little about diaphragm pumps. Any thoughts on this type of trash pump? I would like something that requires little maintenance and can move 150 gpm and a larger sized fuel tank for 24 hr runs. It does not have to be a dph pump but your thoughts might help here.

Thanking you for your thoughts here smile


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Why do you think you need more gypsum/lime? The total hardness of 45-50 and alkalinity of 100-110 is adequate for producing a bloom when adequate fertilizer is present. The Fertilization topic in the Common Q&A Pond Archives indicates that above 20ppm alkalinity is enough for producing a bloom. If you have your noted water chemistry and are having difficulty getting a bloom then something else is the cause not the alkalinity or hardness.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96127#Post96127

See this from the Southern Region Aquaculture Center.
FERTILIZATION OF FISH FRY PONDS by G. Ludwig, N. Stone and C.“Bo” Collins
One important parameter of the water is the alkalinity. Alkalinity stabilizes pH and facilitates the uptake of nutrients by phytoplankton. If the water has less than 20 mg/l total alkalinity, liming is necessary. Waters that have between 20 and 50 mg/l alkalinity would benefit from the application of lime, while waters above 50 mg/l alkalinity do not require lime.

Pump. Why are you choosing a diaphragm pump rather than the common centrifugal pump?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/02/17 09:52 AM.

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Thanks Bill, it is or was my understanding that higher water hardness up to and including 200ppm is where one wants to be in order to grow better fish, healthier fish? As far as a bloom, we are good there. Water looks very fertile (19 to 22" visibility) with no fertilization necessary this year.

I was looking at the different choices of smaller trailer mounted transfer or trash pumps. I had some concerns with transferring water from a Bayou where pump might pick up some larger trash and I thought the diaphragm pump moved larger material.


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Use a good strainer and a centrifugal pump. When my pond is low I transfer water out of a clear water creek that runs through my property. I have a standard trash pump strainer on the intake hose that I put into a one gallon bucket. Then I wrapped the entire bucket with metal window screening that extends up and is clamped to the intake (suction) hose. There is a large worm clamp around the bucket holding the screen on there too. I made the screening area large enough that it passes sufficient water even if some leaves or debris stick onto it. I think my screening is fine enough to prevent the intake of unwanted fish. If a few tiny fry of some kind did get through, they would immediately be eaten by the hordes of BG.

The volume of water pumped will decrease dramatically with distance and increasing lift. It helps a lot if the discharge pipe is larger than the the pump outlet. Three inch pipe will transport a lot more water out of a two inch pump than two inch pipe will.

Last edited by John F; 05/03/17 10:17 AM.
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I have a Honda pump now but it only moves around 60 gpm and with a 3.5 acre pond. it's to small, heck it would not even take care of the evaporation lol. And it will only run for about 4 hrs before it is out of fuel. my distance to pump bayou water might be around 400 yds from the bayou or even closer when we have a full bayou, because it backs up into feeder creeks. I am leaning toward a 3" pump. I also have a water well that I move water 6/10 of a mile to the big pond. it produces around 65 gpm at the well head and around 55 gpm at the pond. I am looking at preparing a duck hunting spot where I can drain or fill 3 acres about a foot or so. one that can be planted and then flooded and may also produce some cnbg there.


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If you have a small tractor, there are PTO powered pumps available. For that much water in a 3.5 acre pond, you will need 4" pipe or bigger. $$$$.

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Yep John, I looked into the PTO pumps but I did not want to tie up my tractor. I agree a 3 acre flooded duck food plot would be around 100,000+- gals per inch. But if I can pump 150 gpm I might get it done over a week or about 216,000 gals per 24 hrs. That is why I was asking about the diaphragm pump, I have no experience with those and was wondering about the reliability or maintenance on such things. I have also been looking at replacing two 48" culverts and using an adjustable cap (if u will) on one end to assist in trapping water prior to fall rains.

Heck John, I can't take it with me and the gov gets more than there fair share. and this is will be separate from my fishing pond

Last edited by TGW1; 05/03/17 05:04 PM.

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I think the diaphragm pumps are not generally for continuous use. The centrifugal pumps are made for long runs; only needing oil changes and routine engine maintenance.

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A 3" semi trash pump will move a lot of water. I disconnected the fuel tank that came with mine, and used a 6 gal steel outboard motor fuel tank. Brazed a fitting at the bottom, set it on a bucket and connect it to the fuel line on the pump. It will run for 18 hrs at WOT, well over 24 hr at part throttle. At WOT the pump is rated for just under 14,000 gph. If you neck up the outlet to 4" right after the pump it will move more than that.

Set the pump as close to the water level as possible and let the pump push the water.

I use a strainer on the intake side, but the best way to stop all the crud from plugging up the screen is to float the intake under a truck inner tube. I put the suction line and strainer thru the center of the tube and have it just deep enough so it doesn't make a vortex and suck air. I will stake the innertube in place, or it will want to move to shore....


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Thanks for the input guys. I new I should stay with a pump I was familiar with smile lol ,but I had to ask because what I read about the diaphragm moving larger particles. Thanks again


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My 3" trash pump with a 6.5HP Honda clone engine burns darn near 2 GPH of fuel under full load....a 24 hour run would need a 50 gallon fuel cell to make sure it doesn't shut down.



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My two inch Honda WB20X pump ran 5 hours recently at full throttle on about 1.6 gallons of gas. So, YMMV.

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The engine will use the maximum amount of fuel at maximum flow and minimum head pressure. In other words, a 3" intake hose drawing from pump level and discharging a 3" open head at pump level.

Any time you increase head pressure (pumping water higher or closing a valve partially off to slow flow) and reduce flow it will actually use less gas because enginge load is reduced.

Sounds counter intuitive but that is the way it works with centrifugal pumps. Liquid or air (centrifugal fans like in vacuum cleaner or shop vac).

If you doubt that close an output valve on a centrifugal water pump and make it go to stall head pressure and listen to the engine gain RPM's because the load is reduced. Hold your hand over a shop vac intake or outlet and hear the electric motor gain RPS's because the motor speed increases because motor load is reduced.

When you stop flow water just goes round and round the impeller case. The power consumed is only what it takes for the impellers to create the stall pressure. As the outlet opens and flow starts the impellers "grab hold" of new water forcing more resistance against the impellers. It is a combination of flow and pressure that causes the pump to resist the shaft turning (requiring horsepower), but the flow is the biggest component on a centrifugal type pump (but not on others like a positive displacement gear type pump). Maximum flow equal maximum horsepower requirement equal maximum fuel usage. Reducing flow (by pumping water higher or pulling a higher lift or closing a valve partially or fully) reduces load on the engine because less work is being done.

Fuel usage is going to be tied to load.

At least that is the way it seems to work to me but I'm no engineer. That's just what the big boys told me.

Last edited by snrub; 05/04/17 02:07 PM.

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Originally Posted By: snrub

Fuel usage is going to be tied to load.

At least that is the way it seems to work to me but I'm no engineer. That's just what the big boys told me.


You are absolutely correct. One of the online sellers of pumps had it exactly backward in their literature and I brought it to their attention.

My new pump uses way less fuel than my former 6.5hp-212cc did because it is only 120 cc and matched to the load. In studying various centrifugal pumps offered for sale, I find that many of them have engine displacement much larger than required by the size of the pump, making them inefficient with fuel vs volume of water pumped. For example: HF uses the same 212cc engine on both its 2" and 3" pumps.

The 2" Honda pump actually pumps about 8% more GPM with its 120cc than the 2" HF with 212cc. In a way, you kind of get what you pay for in the long run. For short runs, the HF was fine, but it was a gas hog for keeping a pond filled.

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When you start adding supplemental fuel with bigger tanks for longer run times, remember to shut down every so often and check your oil. The smaller factory tanks provide a good gauge in that regard....fuel runs out, engine dies, check oil, refuel and go again. Also, in an air cooled engine the oil provides more than lubrication, it also handles a surprisingly large amount of engine cooling. Keep it changed.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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That is interesting John F. That is a greater difference than I would have imagined.

There could be some difference in impeller design too I suppose.


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Originally Posted By: snrub
That is interesting John F. That is a greater difference than I would have imagined.

There could be some difference in impeller design too I suppose.


I deal with aircraft quality pumps on a daily basis. I suspect you're correct Snrub, in that the HF and Honda pumps have significant differences in efficiency. Impeller design, manufacturing tolerances on components keeping leakage to a minimum, etc., all add up to dollars. A bigger motor can't compensate for a low efficiency pump. It is not unusual for aircraft dimensional requirements to be held within .0002 of an inch...but they cost a whole bunch more!

Last edited by Bill D.; 05/04/17 08:48 PM.

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