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#471054 - 05/02/17 01:41 PM Dock Questions for large water level changes?
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 843
Loc: West Central Missouri
My water level in the pond can and will change in the range of three feet between full pool and emergency overflow, not to mention what might happen below full pool. Maybe as much as 5 or 6 feet between extreme low and high waters. I can not wrap my head around how dock legs can reliably accommodate the large level fluctuations. It seems the "slip joint" would likely bind and I would find the dock submerged after a heavy rain, OR bound up in the air after the water dropped.

Can I design a "T" shape dock, let's say, a 4 by 10 foot gangway with a 6 by 8 foot "T" at the end that is only anchored to the shore(anchored with concrete foundation and hinged)?

I ask this because the Menards in my area is having a buy one PlayStar Dock Float (3' x 4')for $99, get one free and I am back onto the dock thing or at least considering buying now to save later as more dock money is made.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#471058 - 05/02/17 02:18 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Custom 68 Offline


Registered: 05/09/14
Posts: 116
Loc: Springfield MO area
That's a good find on the float it looks like. I'm like you and think a floating dock is a better way for me to go and something similar to what you are describing.
It looks like these are rated for 500 pounds. I know others have used the plastic 55 gallon barrels which will still be cheaper but this might be the "better" way to do it.
I will keep watching for the others to chime in.
Dave
_________________________
Thanks
Dave
1 acre pond.

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#471059 - 05/02/17 03:00 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
RC51 Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Quarter check out my link if you haven't.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=469147#Post469147

My post are all adjustable but who wants to adjust posts all the time right. What we did is measured our water depth at full pull and made our dock for full pool. Now does this look a little funny when the water goes down in the summer yeah it may not look perfect then as your gonna have a lot of dock showing at certain times. But I am not worried about that myself. The only reason I will adjust mine is to make sure it stays level until it fully settles then I am not messing with it. I don't care how low my pond gets. Trying to keep up with raising and lowering your dock can be tiresome so why not just put it at full pool stage and enjoy.

RC
_________________________
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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#471061 - 05/02/17 03:05 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
RC51 Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
If your dead set on a floating dock I know some guys put a walkway on their docks that are on a big hinge. The walkway can then float up or down as far as you need it on the hinges. Depending how far up or down you will travel will be how long your walkway needs to be. If that makes sense.

RC
_________________________
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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#471062 - 05/02/17 03:32 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: RC51]
dlowrance Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 857
Loc: Central IL
Originally Posted By: RC51
If your dead set on a floating dock I know some guys put a walkway on their docks that are on a big hinge. The walkway can then float up or down as far as you need it on the hinges. Depending how far up or down you will travel will be how long your walkway needs to be. If that makes sense.

RC


That's what I did - and it works, for the most part. I do still get the dock in a bind after a real gulley washer - like right now for example - but it works well 95% of the time.
_________________________
Dale



"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water." - anonymous

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#471068 - 05/02/17 04:31 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3092
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
It would be cool if they made a permanent dock or pier
that you could adjust basically with the touch of a button.
_________________________
Fishing has never been about the fish....


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#471069 - 05/02/17 04:40 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
liquidsquid Offline


Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 1935
Loc: East Bloomfield, NY USA
If you got clever, you could have the "ramp" be made out of stairs on metal dowels between sets of boards that hold the boards/steps. As the floating part descends, the stair parts stay level (articulate).

Something like this, only I'm sure you could make one for less than this costs:
http://www.boatliftanddock.com/p-1109-ar...ting-stair.aspx
_________________________


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#471070 - 05/02/17 04:52 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Zep]
RC51 Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Zep
It would be cool if they made a permanent dock that
you could adjust basically with the touch of a button.


Oh Zep you know what they say. For the money they can make anything... lol. I bet there is something out there like that if you got the cash to pay for it that is....

RC
_________________________
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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#471071 - 05/02/17 04:56 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 843
Loc: West Central Missouri
I am pretty set on the floating dock RC. Zep, a floating dock adjusts without the touch of a button and that is what I am after. A stationary dock would at times be completely under water when the emergency overflow is in use. That could last for a day or so and I would hate for it to become unanchored and float off or sink. My biggest concern is establishing the shore anchor system to be the only anchor point, no legs at all.

I envision a concrete pad/pier on the shore a foot or two above full pool with a large hinge device attached to the gangway. The gangway might have a float or two under it near the platform (or not). Then a hinge between the gangway and platform. As the water level changes the hinges allow the platform to stay level but change with the pool. It works in my head, but sometimes my head lets me down and that would be a waste of money, blood, sweat and then tears. Hence, throwing it around here on PB!

dlowrance - what kind of binds does your dock get into, do you have any pictures of it, bound or not?

Custom, the local used barrel guy asks over half much as these (at sale price) would cost to do the same job and I am betting that the low profile design helps stability much more so than what you get from barrels.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#471072 - 05/02/17 05:03 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: NE Missouri
I went the menards way. Bought when parts or kits were on sale. I have 2 10x4 sections for my walkway, then two more 10x4 configured side by side. I put poles down to the bottom. Mine slides up an down 3-5'. I put a ladder on the 8x10 foot platform because it's too steep and muddy to easily climb out of the pond.
So far so good. It's survived two stretches where it's dropped down, and now back up.
We swim in it a lot, if our HBG/piranha cross will let us.
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#471107 - 05/03/17 08:40 AM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
djstauder Offline
Hall of Fame

Junior Member

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1012
Loc: Mississippi
QuarterAcre, This URL has some hinging ideas that you probably know about already. https://www.dockbuilders.com/wooden-gangway-hardware.htm

I went with T-comF and T-comM connected with ConPinS where the ramp connects to the shore braces and the ramp connects to the main 12x12 dock.
_________________________
1 ac pond LMB, BG, RES, CC

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#471108 - 05/03/17 09:30 AM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1455
Loc: Central Kansas
Dock and Walkway

Take a look at how this one is constructed. The first part of the walkway is fixed. The second part is hinged as is the dock part to allow for major water changes.

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#471110 - 05/03/17 10:24 AM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
dlowrance Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 857
Loc: Central IL
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre

dlowrance - what kind of binds does your dock get into, do you have any pictures of it, bound or not?



I don't have a pic but I can take one tomorrow as it's currently in a bind right now after the big rain event.

Essentially my floating section is a T shape, all one piece floating on barrels. There is a ramp attached to the T floating section via a big hinge I made. The ramp sits on the shoreline (at a fairly steep section - when at full pool the ramp runs downhill to the dock).


When the pond goes way up (can change up to about 40 inches during the multiple 100 year rains we've had the last several years) the dock floats up and the ramp goes from a downhill slope to horizontal to an uphill slope, to ultimately floating off the shore completely.

When the water recedes the ramp hits the shore (because it has no floats to carry it higher) before it really should, and creates a bind between it and the dock. The hinge pivots UP, putting the whole dock in a bind.

I fix it by walking out to the hinge and jumping on it. Works every time.

I'll have some pics tomorrow - both before and after.
_________________________
Dale



"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water." - anonymous

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#471113 - 05/03/17 10:45 AM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2040
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Mine is fixed on piers. Excellent at full pool. At low pool, it's completely out on the bank. I wish I had a detachable floating section. Maybe someday.
_________________________

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#471121 - 05/03/17 12:00 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
catscratch Offline


Registered: 03/01/17
Posts: 68
Loc: Kansas
I have big fluctuations in water level with a hinged dock. It works well and hasn't needed repaired for a long time (knock on wood).



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#471122 - 05/03/17 12:07 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: NE Missouri
Pretty small files. I hope they don't slow down the thread. The pics show the poles in place that the dock slides on. When the dock is at its lowest, the kingfisher will use the poles as perches to dive from.

August 9
[img:center][/img]

January 18
[img:center][/img]


Attachments
IMG_0028.JPG (94 downloads)
IMG_4054.JPG (104 downloads)
Description: Jan 18


_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#471134 - 05/03/17 02:17 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 843
Loc: West Central Missouri
Holy Moly Catscratch! It took a minute for me to realize your dock had not become dislodged and floated out to the middle of your lake. Now, that is what I'm talking about. So, you have no poles, just a hinged gangway/catwalk (anchored to the shore or the bottom of your lake at high pool) hinged to a platform. Your dock gives me a lot of hope that it can be done without poles!

The reasons I don't like the pole to the bottom concept is that my dam has a lot of rock in it, it's too late to set the poles as the pond is full, I did not know for sure that the pond will live at full pool ( I still don't), AND I would like to try and design it such that the platform can be unhooked and motored around the pond.

Setterguy, It looks like your dock manages the water level changes very well.

dlowrance, I can imagine your binding issues assuming that your ramp is not anchored to the shore and you have poles to keep it from floating off.

Thanks for the great responses, I really enjoy the conversations!
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#471139 - 05/03/17 03:14 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
catscratch Offline


Registered: 03/01/17
Posts: 68
Loc: Kansas
Yes sir. The walkway is attached to the bank (and the dock) with a hing at both ends. The hinges are sections of pipe with a long allthread through the middle as a pin. No vertical posts at all. I've seen the water level so high that the the dock stands on end!

There is a pipe that runs out to the dock on one side to triangulate things and keep it from shifting side to side. I'll look to see if I have a pic of it somewhere...

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#471140 - 05/03/17 03:31 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
catscratch Offline


Registered: 03/01/17
Posts: 68
Loc: Kansas
Sorry, I don't have a pic of the triangulation pipe.

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#471141 - 05/03/17 04:01 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 843
Loc: West Central Missouri
Thanks for checking, I can see how triangulating the gangway to the dock would beef things up.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#471144 - 05/03/17 04:48 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
catscratch Offline


Registered: 03/01/17
Posts: 68
Loc: Kansas
I'll try to take a pic sometime soon and post it for you.

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#471160 - 05/03/17 07:05 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: catscratch]
2Old2Soon Offline


Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 126
Loc: Georgia
My groundwater pond fluctuates about 4-5'. I couldn't find the post from my original dock build, but here is the one from "phase 2" when I added a 16' section. You can see how I did my hinge 3 or 4 pics down. I did something similar to Catscratch except I used a section of 1/2" black pipe from HD, only about $10. This hinge allows a great deal of postitive and negative articulation with no stress on the hinge joint. I was going to add criss-crossed cables anchored under the gangway to add lateral stability but I didn't think it was necessary. I has withstood 2 hurricanes (CAT-1's) and some wicked straight line storms and it remains solid. Take a look, it may work for you.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=33275&Number=437779#Post437779

2O2S

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#471172 - 05/03/17 10:14 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: Quarter Acre]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: NE Missouri
There's a auger type screw on the ends of the galvanized pipe. I just twisted them a few times after I pounded them down. Haven't had any issues. I was concerned about using 2 of the 4x10 walkways hinged in the middle. It's actually worked very well. No problems with getting pinched etc.. I've got two more pipes I'm going to sink down off of the main platform. I just don't think my 8' pipes will work. I need to get some 10' pipes. At high water, the dock would float right off the top of the pipe.
_________________________
4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

Top
#471174 - 05/03/17 10:40 PM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: SetterGuy]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2040
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
There's a auger type screw on the ends of the galvanized pipe. I just twisted them a few times after I pounded them down. Haven't had any issues. I was concerned about using 2 of the 4x10 walkways hinged in the middle. It's actually worked very well. No problems with getting pinched etc.. I've got two more pipes I'm going to sink down off of the main platform. I just don't think my 8' pipes will work. I need to get some 10' pipes. At high water, the dock would float right off the top of the pipe.


Why don't you put some inside couplings on the pipes and put on some 2 foot extensions?
_________________________

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#471187 - 05/04/17 07:41 AM Re: Dock Questions for large water level changes? [Re: 2Old2Soon]
catscratch Offline


Registered: 03/01/17
Posts: 68
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: 2Old2Soon
My groundwater pond fluctuates about 4-5'. I couldn't find the post from my original dock build, but here is the one from "phase 2" when I added a 16' section. You can see how I did my hinge 3 or 4 pics down. I did something similar to Catscratch except I used a section of 1/2" black pipe from HD, only about $10. This hinge allows a great deal of postitive and negative articulation with no stress on the hinge joint. I was going to add criss-crossed cables anchored under the gangway to add lateral stability but I didn't think it was necessary. I has withstood 2 hurricanes (CAT-1's) and some wicked straight line storms and it remains solid. Take a look, it may work for you.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=33275&Number=437779#Post437779

2O2S


Really nice dock.^^^ Good build!

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