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#465877 - 03/05/17 06:56 PM Add Grass Carp or Not?
Mike4634 Offline


Registered: 04/06/16
Posts: 16
Loc: IL
The pond is just over 1 acre. Already seeing growth around the waters edge with this see saw weather for the past month. Had a lot of growth last year and my father in-law sprayed it and controlled it some what. The pond was stocked with hybrid blue book, channel catfish and albino catfish last spring.

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#465879 - 03/05/17 07:06 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5029
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Hi Mike,

What specie(s) of vegetation are you trying to control? Grass carp are not effective against every kind.

Bill D.
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#465886 - 03/05/17 10:25 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Shelby County Offline


Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 104
Loc: Shelby County, Texas
Mike, I had a terrible growth of widgeon grass in my 6 acre pond. It was sprouting everywhere in water 6 feet or shallower. I applied for 20 grass carp from the state of Texas and was approved. I bought those fish when they were 12 inches long two years ago this summer for $10 apiece. They are all about 20 inches long and about 10-15 pounds now. They do a great job on widgeon grass but that is a rooted grass growing on the bottom. They do not eat algae that I can tell... maybe if they were starving! I see some cat tails uprooted this spring and suspect that they are doing it because there is no emergent bottom vetegation yet. I like mine and would recommend them for certain types of vegetation control.
Tom Sterling (Shelby County).

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#465912 - 03/06/17 11:01 AM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 11581
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Know the species or common name of the plants that you want to control. The different types of plants respond best to different types of treatment. Some treatments have no affect on some plants. Grass carp are selective feeders just like you when you go to the salad bar. Some plants are eaten well, some rarely, and some are not eaten at all. Also some g.carp eat plants better than others, again similar to people eating lettuce or spinach.


Edited by Bill Cody (03/06/17 11:04 AM)
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#465985 - 03/06/17 10:20 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1469
Loc: Eagle, NE
Hi guys and gals,

I'll share my experience from beginning to end as I was able to get the GC out before I moved.

June, 2012 shortly after moving in, I nuked my 2 acre pond with Fluridone at 90PPB due to an infestation of Coontail and Duckweed (FA taken care of with Cutrine+). In October of 2012 I stocked 8 GC at 12", in hopes to help curb/control any Coontail that decided to come back. Then in June of 2013 I followed up with a second treatment of Fluridone at 45PPB, again to prevent the return of CT. My understanding is that Fluridone is a complete vegetation killer, and it did it's job.

From that point until moving out in November of 2016 I was never able to establish any vegetation in the pond. Was it due to the GC not allowing anything to establish? I had no clue as I imagine it could have been a number of reasons. Occasionally I would spot a GC but never enough to get a good glimpse at it's size. But boy did I wonder if they had grown and if so, how much, yet what could they have been feeding on?

Fast forward to November, 2016. Just prior to moving out and 2 months after removing my aeration system my pond suffered an O2 crash. Seeing all the fish piping for air, my son and a buddy and I started netting as many fish as possible.

Here's how the GC had grown in 4 years and I still have no idea what they had been feasting on.

By the way, we were able to pull 7 of the 8 I stocked and to say they beat the hell outta me while in the bow of my bass boat would be an understatement!







With knowing now they got that big and likely keeping the pond stirred up, I don't know if I would do it again. Hopefully one day I'll again be in a position to decide smile .
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#465995 - 03/07/17 07:47 AM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Lovnlivin]
basslover Online   content


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 525
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Lovnlivin
Hi guys and gals,

I'll share my experience from beginning to end as I was able to get the GC out before I moved.

With knowing now they got that big and likely keeping the pond stirred up, I don't know if I would do it again. Hopefully one day I'll again be in a position to decide smile .


Keith -

Hey man good to see you online!

What did you do with those carp - turn them into fertilizer for your garden?

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#466032 - 03/07/17 01:58 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1469
Loc: Eagle, NE
Thanks, Basslover I'm usually lurking in the background, I just don't always log in. Still a lot to learn and good peeps to stay in touch with smile .

Regarding the GC, due to the circumstances at the time, they became critter food. Maybe I should have left them in the pond as fertilizer. I'm sure a few more nutrients in that pond couldn't have hurt whistle

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Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#470002 - 04/20/17 08:14 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5029
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I have a question that I've been pondering for a while. I've seen many posts that say grass carp are less effective controlling vegetation once they get larger. My question is why? It seems counter-intuitive. Big fish need more food, right? Let's assume a pond that is not pellet fed. Do grass carp change their diet to something besides vegetation when they get larger? How are they keeping those big bodies going and growing if they aren't eating as much vegetation?
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#470004 - 04/20/17 08:49 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
catmandoo Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5533
Loc: Hampshire Co., WV
Mike,

I wrote an article about grass carp that was just posted earlier today here for the Pond Boss "Moderator's Corner" of the main site. It has lots of links about using grass carp. It might be worth taking a look at.

See Grass Carp -- Yes, No, maybe ...

The main Pond Boss website has recently taken on a far more important function. I urge all to take a look at it for the information it includes.

Regards,
Catmandoo Ken
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#470013 - 04/21/17 12:32 AM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Turtlemtn Offline


Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 339
Loc: Missouri
Will GC attempt to spawn in ponds?

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#470026 - 04/21/17 08:29 AM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
CMM Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 518
Loc: West Central MO
Turtlemtn, triploids are sterile. I think that is all you should have in Missouri. I don't know if they try though.
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#470064 - 04/21/17 01:19 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Turtlemtn Offline


Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 339
Loc: Missouri
I think I have grass carp, at least one, in my pond, but I've never seen any sign of them spawning. What I have seen is an occasional huge splash or swirl and the wake of what looks like a torpedo speeding across my pond. The pond has no vegetation, and whatever it is, has never hit on an artificial lure. And yesterday I saw an uprooted sprig of grass or sedge floating in the pond. Something I read on this thread last night reminded me of the uprooted grass, and I put 2 and 2 together. My pond is up a bit now, and some of the shoreline vegetation is under water. Grass carp had crossed my mind before, but I'd never given them serious thought. I thought the lack of vegetation was most likely due to some use of a poison before I bought this place.

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#470070 - 04/21/17 01:36 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1372
Loc: West Michigan
Grass carp are illegal in MI, but I also have no vegetation, I rarely see or trap crayfish but I'm pretty sure my crayfish are keeping the veggies counts to zero. It is a bummer for trying to create habitat for shrimp, FHM, etc. Consider crayfish trapping?

If I do have a reproducing population of crayfish, my future SMB will have full tummies.

IT is funny that if I put a bluegill carcass in a crayfish trap in the local lakes that have crayfish and leave it overnight there are dozens of crayfish in the trap later. But when my boy has been practicing with his new air driven pellet gun and is taking out my goldfish, they just float for days. It seems turtles and crayfish like the taste of bluegill better than goldfish smile

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#470074 - 04/21/17 01:59 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Turtlemtn Offline


Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 339
Loc: Missouri
I've never seen a crayfish in my pond, and until otters got into my pond last year, I had a fair number of LMB. I still have a few smaller ones.

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#470157 - 04/22/17 08:37 AM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5029
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
I have a question that I've been pondering for a while. I've seen many posts that say grass carp are less effective controlling vegetation once they get larger. My question is why? It seems counter-intuitive. Big fish need more food, right? Let's assume a pond that is not pellet fed. Do grass carp change their diet to something besides vegetation when they get larger? How are they keeping those big bodies going and growing if they aren't eating as much vegetation?


BUMP...

Anybody know the answer to this question?
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#470163 - 04/22/17 09:38 AM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Bill D.]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 23506
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Do older people eat more or less food than teenagers?


Edited by Bill Cody (04/23/17 09:24 PM)
Edit Reason: spell edit
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#470165 - 04/22/17 09:54 AM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5029
Loc: Boone County Illinois
So you think they have a slower metabolism? Unlike adult people, don't adult grass carp keep growing though?
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#470191 - 04/22/17 04:44 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Bill D.]
anthropic Online   content


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 616
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
So you think they have a slower metabolism? Unlike adult people, don't adult grass carp keep growing though?


Sadly, this adult person kept growing. Forty extra pounds since (admittedly very skinny) high school!


Edited by anthropic (04/22/17 05:26 PM)
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#470201 - 04/22/17 09:39 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5029
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I've been wading thru some of those technical papers that put you to sleep by paragraph 2. This may be totally wrong. Ewest would be a much better researcher but as far as I can figure....Young grass carp have underdeveloped Pharyngeal teeth which limits what vegetation they can eat. Must be the vegetation pond guys want them to eat as they are preferred over large adults. As they grow the grass carp Pharyngeal teeth develop which allows them to eat a more diverse and "tougher" diet. So, as near as I can figure, large grass carp don't stop eating, they are just eating different stuff that offers a perhaps more nutritious and preferred meal.


Hopefully, a pro will chime in if I have this all wrong. Heck, I'll be happy if I'm even in the ballpark!


Edited by Bill D. (04/22/17 09:45 PM)
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#470264 - 04/23/17 09:27 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 11581
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
IMO grass carp will continue growing as long as they live. However as the fish age beyond the 4-6 yr mark the growth slows down. they do not grow as much as when they were young and doubling in size. Less growth needs less food to produce that growth. The Pharyngeal teeth development could also play a role in diet selection.


Edited by Bill Cody (04/23/17 09:29 PM)
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#470348 - 04/24/17 11:43 PM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Bill Cody]
4CornersPuddle Online   content


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 154
Loc: southwest Colorado
Some of the largest line caught fish here in Colorado have been grass carp in the 50 pound range. How old do these carp have to be to get this size?

Suppose we put 8" to 10" TGC in our ponds.The next year they have doubled in length and weigh a few pounds. The following year they could be 2 feet long. Another year has them at 30 or so inches and maybe 10 pounds or more.

If their growth slows after this, how old do they have to be to reach 50 or even more pounds? Anyone have an answer for this?

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#470356 - 04/25/17 08:19 AM Re: Add Grass Carp or Not? [Re: Mike4634]
FireIsHot Offline
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3388
Loc: Emory TX
Mike4634, estimating the total percentage of plants your pond has is also important. In a 1 acre pond, I'd rather have 3 too few grass carp, than 1 too many.
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