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#469173 - 04/10/17 02:22 PM Results of Hydrated Lime?
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 54
Loc: Missouri
What can one expect from treating a pool of remaining pond water with hydrated lime? Assuming you use enough to get the pH to 11, how long does it take to kill fish? minutes? hours? days?

do they thrash about first? sink to bottom?

will frogs and turtles leave?

just want to know what to look for. thanks.

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#469190 - 04/10/17 04:40 PM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18509
Loc: Miss.
A few mins.

Some sink many float.

Don't know about turtles or frogs but they would not like the situation .



Edited by ewest (04/10/17 04:42 PM)
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#469198 - 04/10/17 06:27 PM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3382
Loc: Emory TX
I agree with ewest. Very short time period, and when the water turns clear, most the damage is done. I usually see some piping before the fish die. I drain the pond as low as I can before I apply HL, so I haven't seen and dead turtles or frogs. They're usually out after I seine.

Hydrated lime is nothing to play with. Stay upwind and wear all the silly advisory stuff. I never apply it without goggles, gloves, chest waders, and long sleeve shirts. Chemical burns kinda sneak up on you, so I also change clothes and take a shower after I do it.

Be sure to also spot treat any footprints, nesting beds, or any other depression that holds water. You'd be surprised how many small fish can live in a water filled footprint.
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#469199 - 04/10/17 06:38 PM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5024
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Redonthehead
Made a trip to the farm and the siphon had done its job. However there was a bit more water than I wanted - should have had another 10' going into the pond. But I was there and so I built a trail of pallets to get to the water and flung 50 lbs of hydrated lime into it. Was a bit disappointed I didn't see dead fish floating with an hour. So may need to re-do the liming.

How long does getting the pH to 11 take to kill fish? Or what can I expect to see? gasping fish withing xx hours? There were plenty of GBH tracks in the mud so I expect they will eat the dead fish and I wont see anything on the next trip up.



How did you decide 50 pounds was the right amount? Did you hydrate the lime or toss it in dry?

Sure you got the entire pond treated? I think the fish will move to any unaffected area until the PH comes back down in the rest of the pond.


Edited by Bill D. (04/10/17 06:49 PM)
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#469202 - 04/10/17 07:53 PM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6673
Loc: St Louis, MO area
The Hydrated lime is most effective when mixed and dissolved, then sprayed onto the entire pond basin. Many fish can survive in the loose mud and as FireIsHot said, in the little puddles all over.

Broadcast spreading will work, but can take as much as 4 times the H lime than it does by spraying a dissolved solution.

My guess is that the 50# killed some fish, but it's very doubtful it raised the pH high enough to get anywhere near all fish.

Draining a muddy 1/3 acre pond filled with Koi. A total of 600 pounds of Hydrated lime was used on the pond to ensure a 100% kill of everything in the pond's basin.






You can see a few small dead Koi...Larger Koi were netted out and returned to sender before treating...



After treating, the pond was refilled with well water and could have been safely restocked in 2 weeks...



Edited by Rainman (04/11/17 08:39 AM)
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#469250 - 04/11/17 08:58 AM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Bill D.]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 54
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: Bill D.


How did you decide 50 pounds was the right amount? Did you hydrate the lime or toss it in dry?

Sure you got the entire pond treated? I think the fish will move to any unaffected area until the PH comes back down in the rest of the pond.


The Auburn paper says to use 22.5 kg per 100 cubic meter of water, which is 50 lbs per 3500 cubic feet. There was more water left than I had hoped. I'll go back with a borrowed pump and try to get more water out before hitting it again.

I flung it in dry with a shovel - I believe TJ did it that way? Yes, the entire surface area turned creamed coffee, but I don't know about the depth - there was a pretty stiff breeze blowing on the water. Yes, I had on goggles, face mask, long sleeves, and used the wind. Unfortunately its a nearly two hour drive - I can't just walk out the back door and look at it. I was there and in went a 50 pound bag.

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#469739 - 04/17/17 08:52 AM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 54
Loc: Missouri
Success! I borrowed a water pump and took out another ~8 inches of water. Then in a nod to Rainman's advice that broadcasting dry lime on the surface is not efficient, I used the pump to blow it into the water.

I had pumped it down to where I was getting a vortex allowing air into the pump. I shut it down and turned the discharge around such that it would shoot water back into the pond. Fired the pump back up and fed hydrated lime into the vortex going into the suction line. A shovel full of lime would float and spin on the vortex while getting sucked down into the pump, mixing it with water. The current blew a plume of white water all around the pool and within minutes I had fish coming to the surface. Found WCP, GSF, and GSH and a few tadpoles.

Came back a few hours later and noticed 8 trails of turtles vacating the premises.



Edited by Redonthehead (04/17/17 08:55 AM)

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#469748 - 04/17/17 09:43 AM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18509
Loc: Miss.
Nice work. Go back in a week and see if anything is moving around.
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#469758 - 04/17/17 10:49 AM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 54
Loc: Missouri
Will do. The next step is to hit the American Lotus which covered about 75% of the pond. Since there is no water where the lotus is, I am assuming I do not need an aquatic approved herbicide. 2,4-D appears to have excellent control. The heads were just starting to come up out of the mud, so I will wait until there is sufficient foliage to take up the herbicide. This pond has a very small watershed so it will take a long time to fill back up. I hope to be able to walk/spray on the upper portions of mud.



The red flags on the post mark the temporary benchmark for a 2 acre pond I am considering nearby.

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#469778 - 04/17/17 02:27 PM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
Rainman Offline
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Good job, Redonthehead....did you also spray the muddy areas of the pond basin??? You might be amazed at how long some fish can survive in soupy, even semi-solid bud and puddles!

It's too late now, but treating the pond at full pool with the hydrated lime would have killed the lotus...and everything else...lol

Glad you got the water done...was it crystal clear in a couple hours? If not, you may still need more hydrated lime to reach a higher, lethal pH....It's possible just the shock of a rise in pH killed the fish you saw...some fish can be tough buggers!


Edited by Rainman (04/17/17 02:41 PM)
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#469789 - 04/17/17 03:56 PM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Rainman]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 54
Loc: Missouri
I did not have the means to treat all of the exposed mud. If I had slipped off my pallet trail I may not have made it out of there. The last couple of pallets disappeared on me.

Would the lime have killed the lotus even it it was still dormant - under the mud? there wasn't any green showing but has just started coming up. so the hy-lime will kill all the plant life too?

yes, the stirred up silt settled out within a couple of hours, to the point most of the dead fish were covered with a layer of it.

If I decide to do treat my other small pond that is choked with weeds I may skip the effort to drain it and pump a bunch of lime into it. what rate of HL to cubic foot of water do you suggest?

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#469959 - 04/20/17 08:26 AM Re: Results of Hydrated Lime? [Re: Redonthehead]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6673
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Originally Posted By: Redonthehead
I did not have the means to treat all of the exposed mud. If I had slipped off my pallet trail I may not have made it out of there. The last couple of pallets disappeared on me.

Would the lime have killed the lotus even it it was still dormant - under the mud? there wasn't any green showing but has just started coming up. so the hy-lime will kill all the plant life too?

yes, the stirred up silt settled out within a couple of hours, to the point most of the dead fish were covered with a layer of it.

If I decide to do treat my other small pond that is choked with weeds I may skip the effort to drain it and pump a bunch of lime into it. what rate of HL to cubic foot of water do you suggest?


For complete sterilization, I use at least 400# per acre foot of water, but you could go much higher too.....lower rates may not get you the desired results if not mixed and applied very well. You can use your trash pump with the outlet reduced down to a hose barb, and attach a 50' 3/4" water hose to spray the basin....waders, patience, and endurance are needed to slog through the soft mud and muck.
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