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Joined: Apr 2017
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OP
Joined: Apr 2017
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My Grandpa has a 3/4 acre pond. It has a bunch of 2-4" bluegill and only a few if any bass. It also has a decent amount of small catfish. How could this problem best be resolved? He has a cast net. Could we use that to remove enough of the bluegill to balance it out, or should bass be added or both? If bass need to be added, should they be adult bass?
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Seems like some predator fish would enjoy that pond. LMB are the first to come to mind. If you have any, you must not have enough.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 224
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Joined: Dec 2011
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What are your goals for the pond? If you are trying to reach bigger BG you need more predators , LMB in the 8-12" range would help, hard to know how many to stock depending on current numbers. If numbers are low or you fish and hardly catch any LMB I would say 40-50 but it all depends on your goals, if you want a 'trophy' BG pond you probably need to add more. What size are the catfish? They should also help thin the BG's out.
Also- a feeding program can help add size to the current BG. Have Grandpa throw out some pellets each day, he would probably enjoy it as well. Optimal BG food is getting good reviews for adding size quickly.
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3/4 Acre Pond: HSB,SMB,YP,HBG,RES
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
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Joined: Sep 2011
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I had a similar situation before I did a total renovation of the pond. What I did was add 25 8-10" LMB to a 1 acre pond. They grew like gang busters and was excellent fun catching them that fall. They cleaned up most of the BG by then.
That would be the cheapest way to get you going in the right direction for some fun. Should be able to do that for around $150.00
You could then find some large BG over the summer and add them in as breeders to start turning the stunted BG problem around. Don't wait to long to do this, as those bass will grow big enough to chow down on medium size BG and it will get hard to turn that problem around.
Then, if you want to get serious in pond management, start reading the info here in the forums, save up money to do more, and begin a life long learning trip.
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OP
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The catfish are probably about 12-14". The goal for the pond is just to have a well balanced pond with good numbers of all the present species and good sizes for fun fishing. We're not looking necessarily for trophy fish, just a fun day at the pond.
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Joined: Apr 2017
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OP
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Did the LMB clean out all of the bluegill? We want to keep some bluegill and have a good balance between the two species and not have the LMB completely take over.
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Joined: Sep 2011
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The BG were not all cleaned out. The largest will make it thru, which is what you want. The small ones are most likely stunted, and will never be much of anything. That's why I suggest adding in some larger new BG to freshen up the gene pool. If you noticed that there were no small BG after one season, then you could harvest a few of the LMB to swing the balance back in the other direction.
Now what I have told you is not the normal practice on the forum. Most will say start completely over by killing the pond off and stocking the right numbers. But that costs more, a lot more in comparison. I don't know if you would gain that much more, for your goals of just fun fishing.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 368
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 368 |
I don't think the gene pool is going to change in a few years unless the larger BG are selectively removed during that time. The stunted BG should produce normal young that will grow normally unless the pond is still crowded. When the BG are thinned out, the new additions should begin growing to normal size. Adding large BG won't do any harm, except contributing a tad to the overcrowding, but it would provide something larger to fish for. The young of the larger BG would grow up to be stunted just like the young of the stunted BG. I think the obvious solution is to add predators to feast on the crowded, stunted BG.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 267
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014  Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 267 |
Guys many of us were wrong on the time and conditions of genetic change in pond fish. Be looking in PB mag for an eye opening article on how that happens. Here is a lead in.
Evolution in Ponds – Fast and furious?
We all learned in high school science class that the process of evolution of species was slow. Like millions of years slow – right? There is some recent news – as to pond fish species at least we were dead wrong. Evolution can be fast and furious, as in less than three years fast and furious as the emotion we experience seeing our stocking/management efforts go down the drain. Evolution is not always good and it can have very negative profound consequences. Ever wonder how with a pond full of fish you can fish for a few hours and only catch one or two fish? That can be due to human induced selection (speeded-up evolution) through fishing, often referred to as non-catchability.
FYI -- this human induced change includes much more than just catchability.
Last edited by ewest; 04/13/17 02:48 PM.
.gif) 
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 267
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 267 |
On this thread and the TENN location - if the pond has been stocked for over 3 years it is likely at natural carrying capacity. Look to see if you have yoy LMB fry or LMB under 6 inches. Do a seine survey to determine population balance. A guess would be to add a few LMB @ 10 inches and some adult BG. Feeding would help.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 368
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 368 |
The pond itself might do some selecting. The stunted fish might survive whereas any larger BG would starve.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,535 Likes: 842
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,535 Likes: 842 |
The catfish are probably about 12-14". The goal for the pond is just to have a well balanced pond with good numbers of all the present species and good sizes for fun fishing. We're not looking necessarily for trophy fish, just a fun day at the pond. Are they catfish or bullheads? Catfish (i.e. channel catfish) have forked tails, bullheads (Black, Yellow and Brown) all have rounded tails. It all depends on your budget, how fast you want to see results and your goals for the pond. Fish that are stunted will never reach their full growing capacity because of the days/months/years of lost growth due to food limitations.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 14 |
Guys many of us were wrong on the time and conditions of genetic change in pond fish. Be looking in PB mag for an eye opening article on how that happens. Here is a lead in.
Evolution in Ponds – Fast and furious?
We all learned in high school science class that the process of evolution of species was slow. Like millions of years slow – right? There is some recent news – as to pond fish species at least we were dead wrong. Evolution can be fast and furious, as in less than three years fast and furious as the emotion we experience seeing our stocking/management efforts go down the drain. Evolution is not always good and it can have very negative profound consequences. Ever wonder how with a pond full of fish you can fish for a few hours and only catch one or two fish? That can be due to human induced selection (speeded-up evolution) through fishing, often referred to as non-catchability.
FYI -- this human induced change includes much more than just catchability.
Stuff like this is why I don't subscribe to the notion of fish gospel. Today's accepted fact may well be tomorrow's discarded fallacy. I try to always balance what I've read, or been told, with what I personally observe in my own ponds. It may be comforting to try and reduce fish/ponds to some sort of mathematical equation, where x+y=z all the time, every time, but my experience has been that there are way too many variables in play to be able to rely on any kind of absolute. Fish experience genetic change much quicker than science once thought, HSB can do well in ponds, HBG don't have to fill a pond with undesirable offspring, and fed fish can be darn hard to catch. Who knew?
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282 |
Fast selection is really quite consistent with evolutionary theory (microevolution), but maybe not what one learns in high school. See "punctuated equilibrium" for a discussion of how this translates to new species formation, or just ask any animal/livestock/crop breeder. People have been consciously or unconsciously selecting animals and plants for millennia, and this is well known to biologists. http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/conover_03
Last edited by RAH; 04/14/17 07:27 AM.
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 5
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OP
Joined: Apr 2017
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Thanks for all of the feedback! I think we're just going to start over and stock it from scratch. The catfish are channels btw, not bullheads.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315 |
I assume by restocking, you mean that you will FIRST kill off everything in the pond?
If you can drain the water down to be less volume, it will save you some money.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 368
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 368 |
Sounds like those CC are big enough to eat. A lot of them could go in the skillet.
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