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#467787 - 03/27/17 10:31 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
Bill Cody Offline
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For what itís worth, I'm with Spark on this fish being held by Josh. That fish he is holding has hybrid genetics. This is why. First go look at some CNBG pictures and look closely at the gill flap. It is ALWAYS pure all black clear to the margin, all along the back border. All pure strain BG always, repeat always, have the gill flap complete black Ė no noticeable light or colored margin.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92482#Post92482

Now go look at HBG pictures in the Archives. The HBG especially those with green sunfish genes always have a boarder on the back edge of the gill flap. This gill flap boarder of coloration comes from the GSF gene pool. Also go look at the gill flaps of the hybrid BG & female bluegill posted by Spark also on pg2. BG has all black flap, hybrid - a border on the flap.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256325#Post256325

Now go look very carefully at the gill flap on the fish held by Josh (pg2 of this thread). I clearly see a distinct boarder or margin on the back margin of the black part of the gill flap. CNBG never have this distinct boarder around the gill flap. Actually for the fish in the picture, the distinct boarder surrounds the entire gill flap. The margin is quite evident, but a very light color due to the light hue of the fish living in turbid water. The fish held by Josh could be a CNBG X GSF cross. Regardless of where the fish came from, it has hybrid characteristics due to the unmistakable gill (opercle) flap evidence. The light coloration makes the identification more difficult if one uses coloration as evidence.

Now if you don't believe me go read the technical scientific descriptions of green sunfish and bluegill. Bluegill: opercle membrane is black as opercle spot(Troutman), other source: ear flap black to the edge (Becker); other source: opercular flap entire black edge(Ross).
Green sunfish: "opercular flap with black center and with a broad light colored margin"(Becker)... other source: ear flap is black with a white or yellowish margin(Ross).


Edited by Bill Cody (03/27/17 07:36 PM)
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#467797 - 03/27/17 12:10 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
ozarkfisher Offline


Registered: 07/11/14
Posts: 98
Loc: Arkansas, ozarks
Got a little vacation time last week and got to hit the pond. Only caught a couple HBG but they have grown well and seem to be in really good shape. The larger ones are around 8" now. Gotta throw a thank you to teehjaeh for the phone time and help setting this pond up as well as all the other PB members who indirectly help everyday.


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#467800 - 03/27/17 12:16 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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When I can, and I hope soon, I'm going back up there and catch some more to get good pictures. Can't go today and storms are coming the next couple of days. The others that I caught were also very large but not as big as this one. And, they all had the yellow coloration. OTOH, none of the smaller 5 to 8 inch fish had that coloration.

I'm saying CNBG because it exhibits the traits that Georges fish had that Todd got and bred.

Of course, that might not prove this ones genetics.
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#467811 - 03/27/17 01:01 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
ewest Offline
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Edited by ewest (03/27/17 01:02 PM)
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#467818 - 03/27/17 02:25 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: Sunil]
sprkplug Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Sunil
I'm just kidding, but it seems like you were the one who was questioning the breakdown of the fish, so there was no 'other' party to throw the towel at...


It was me admitting defeat at not being able to find any more pics of CNBG with all yellow pelvics....
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"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#467863 - 03/27/17 07:31 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
Bill Cody Offline
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Eric's picture of the maleCNBG makes my point that the gill flap of CNBG are completely black with no boarder. Coloration of a fish is a weak identification characteristic.
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#467867 - 03/27/17 08:23 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: Bill D.]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: sprkplug

Be nice Sunil, I broke 4 inches off the tip of my go to St Croix this afternoon and I'm in mourning. cry


I hate it when that happens! If only 4 inches, I would just clean up the break and put a new tip on it. You can buy kits complete with a little tube of glue. I broke the tip off my favorite rod about 40 years ago and it's still one of my favorites today.


I sent mine back to Sage when it broke (I won't go into details, but no children were harmed) it's as good as new.. I feel for you.
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#467870 - 03/27/17 08:57 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
sprkplug Online   content
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Registered: 06/02/08
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It's under warranty, but dang it I broke it. It wasn't St Croix's problem, and I don't feel right asking them to take care of it. I'll stand the replacement on my dime, and try to be more careful next time.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#467871 - 03/27/17 09:38 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I mentioned repairing a broken rod tip in an earlier post. FWIW for anybody that wants to repair one, this is what I did so many years ago....Rod Tip repair Kit. More expensive are available.

https://www.fishusa.com/product/Berkley-...P5EthoCKMTw_wcB


Edited by Bill D. (03/27/17 10:24 PM)
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#467872 - 03/27/17 09:40 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: Bill Cody]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Eric's picture of the maleCNBG makes my point that the gill flap of CNBG are completely black with no boarder. Coloration of a fish is a weak identification characteristic.


I've avoided commenting on the fish pedigree because I think both sides make good points. Plus people a lot smarter than me and having seen a lot more fish that I ever have already seem to disagree, so any opinion I have would only cloud things more.

But that never stopped me before. smirk

One thing bothers me about it being a hybrid. Any of my hybrids show much more pronounced GSF characteristics. Caught about a dozen RES/GSF hybrids out of my forage pond tonight. So if this is a HCNBG, are the very mild GSF characteristics because of just the natural variability of hybrid characteristic expression? Or could it perhaps be the result of a HBG female pairing up with a CNBG male giving only 25% GSF influence?
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#467878 - 03/27/17 10:47 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
ewest Offline
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Bill that is a pic from Bruce and was only posted to show yellow fins as requested not ear tab.
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#467879 - 03/27/17 10:49 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
sprkplug Online   content
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I tend to classify BG x GSF hybrids as being either BG dominant, or GSF dominant. Meaning they favor one heritage more than the other. I have both here in our pond, and one of the most telling characteristics for me is the body dynamic. Does it favor the classic big bluegill, round pie plate shape, or is it the stockier, heavy body commonly associated with GSF?

Look at the fish in the photo ewest posted, and notice the shape. Round. Then look at Dave's fish...more blocky. Add the yellow pelvics, huge mouth, opercular marking, (which I hadn't noticed, thanks Bill), and it just points to some GSF in there, to me anyway.

I'll go out on a limb and toss out the notion that the fish is not one of Al's, but a naturally occurring hybrid. Hatched into that pond a few years ago, reaped the benefits of the drought compressing his food supply into easily gulpable quantities.

Maybe the unusual appearance is due to being an f2 or later, and/or backcrossing with a BG. I don't know, just thinking out loud.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#467899 - 03/28/17 08:40 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3875
Loc: Emory TX
Interesting turn. Let me check my records, and I can at least confirm the dates and the chain of custody of the CNBG I took to Dave's.

I'm no help on the pic, and far better minds than mine are already on it. Anything I added would be speculation anyway.
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#467914 - 03/28/17 10:08 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3875
Loc: Emory TX
So Dave had a drought, and we wanted to help get him restarted once his pond filled back up. The CNBG I took to Dave were directly stocked in the brood pond on 03-11-2013 by Overton's Fisheries. I assume they were from a late 2012 spawn, and the brood pond was drained and seined prior to their stocking.

We set up a cage, and the CNBG were being pulled by hook and line, and each and every CNBG that went into that cage was visually inspected while in hand. The CNBG that weren't selected, went directly into the big pond.

On 06-19-15, we seined the pond and hand selected the biggest and most colorful CNBG to go in the cage. The CNBG hit Dave's pond on 06-20-2015. Most of the males were +-8", and the females were +-7". We selected larger fish because we wanted them spawning immediately, and survive any possible predation. Best I could tell, the mix was 40/60% male to female. The male to female ratio was a little skewed, but we did that to get more numbers of larger catchable (read recreational) males. That should presently put those fish at around 4 1/2 yo.

Not sure if anybody else has, but I've been to both George's and Dave's ponds, and the body coloration I'm seeing in the posted picture is very reminiscent of George's fish. Regardless of the lineage, that's just a beautiful fish.

As a side note, I've started seeing multiple CNBG with red tails, and fin tipping. We've never seen those here before, and I only found one picture of a red tailed CNBG, and that was from an Overton's picture dated 2007. Nothing surprises me anymore when dealing with CNBG.
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#467918 - 03/28/17 10:32 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
sprkplug Online   content
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Al, do you see the all yellow pecs on your fish, in addition to the tipping?

By the way, what is your current pond record? They must be brutes by now!! Have you broke two pounds yet? If not, you are surely right there!
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#467923 - 03/28/17 10:50 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Since I doubt that I'll ever catch that specific fish, everything is speculation on my part. I'm really going by the pics I saw of Georges fish that went to Overton and then to Al. And, I caught 4 or 5 other very large, 1+ pound, yellowish, fish that had never been in my pond prior to Al seeding my pond with bigger fish to jump start after the drought ended. I didn't look them over but, as usual, immediately returned them to the water.

Other than the physical characteristic noted by Bill and Tony, I'm realizing that the smaller fish, 5 to 8 inch, I caught had no yellowish coloration. That may speak to the lesser spawning of something other than BG. I mentioned a huge, probably 12+ inch, GSF that I caught last year. Other than the huge mouth and green spots by the mouth, it looked like a BG and had no yellow coloration. So, I have to believe that these fish came from Al.

Note: I have never even considered the fin count because I haven't purposely stocked a HBG in the last 20 years.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#467929 - 03/28/17 11:37 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: sprkplug]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3875
Loc: Emory TX
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Al, do you see the all yellow pecs on your fish, in addition to the tipping?

By the way, what is your current pond record? They must be brutes by now!! Have you broke two pounds yet? If not, you are surely right there!

Tony I looked, and I had one pic of a smaller CNBG that may have yellow pectoral fins, but the fins were collapsed, so no help there.

I haven't broken 2# yet, but like you, I think there's one in there. Too many, too close, not to be. I have to admit recreational CNBG fishing has been very limited over the last 2 years. I've been concentrating on small CNBG, not large. The things we do for a healthy LMB pond.
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#467934 - 03/28/17 11:57 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
I have seen ,but no findable pics, of every conceivable yellow and or orange (some orange almost red)fin/tail combinations on CNBG. If I find pics I will post some.
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#468930 - 04/07/17 03:48 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: NE Missouri
fishing down by Marco Island, FL.
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4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#468951 - 04/07/17 08:01 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
beastman Offline


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
Very Nice ! Specked Trout
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#469013 - 04/08/17 11:25 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2494
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I really enjoy spec and red fishing. Spec's are great eating, so are reds but I prefer the spec's. Nice spec!
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#469207 - 04/10/17 08:34 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3875
Loc: Emory TX
So, I was on my way home from a fun weekend, and I saw a Dodge truck parked on the side of the road. My first inclination is to always avoid rock haulers and Dodge trucks, but I decided to see if the guy wanted to fish. I'm not sure where he was from because he talked funny. Maybe Canada or somewhere like that.

Most of the 10"s were 1# to 1.1#.


We caught a ton of this size today. Pre-frontal conditions.

Here's a better look.



10 3/4", and 1#11oz



A HSB volunteered too.


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#469209 - 04/10/17 08:53 PM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
Zep Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3092
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
nice al!
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#469233 - 04/11/17 06:49 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: TGW1]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: NE Missouri
Originally Posted By: beastman
Very Nice ! Specked Trout
Originally Posted By: TGW1
I really enjoy spec and red fishing. Spec's are great eating, so are reds but I prefer the spec's. Nice spec!


Thanks! Couldn't catch a snook or triple tail to save our lives, but the trout were hitting.
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4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#469235 - 04/11/17 07:13 AM Re: 2017 Pond Boss Family Fishing Photos [Re: teehjaeh57]
sprkplug Online   content
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Outstanding fish Al! Your fishing partner has a shifty look about him, might bear watching closely.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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