Why American Farmers Are Hacking Their Tractors With Ukrainian Firmware
Quote:
To avoid the draconian locks that John Deere puts on the tractors they buy, farmers throughout America's heartland have started hacking their equipment with firmware that's cracked in Eastern Europe and traded on invite-only, paid online forums.
Tractor hacking is growing increasingly popular because John Deere and other manufacturers have made it impossible to perform "unauthorized" repair on farm equipment, which farmers see as an attack on their sovereignty and quite possibly an existential threat to their livelihood if their tractor breaks at an inopportune time..........
I wonder if any of these "can't tinker with" features could also be connected to the "control freaks" in Washington mandating certain aspects of the way tractors are manufactured?
"John Deere is trying to convince the Copyright Office that farmers don’t really own the tractors they buy from them. They argue that the computer code that runs the systems is not for sale, and that purchasers of the hardware are simply receiving “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle.”
I'd never buy Deere products. Too expensive compared to other brands that do the same thing. I looked at their small tractors, many $$$$ more than I paid for my LS.
General Motors is claiming the same thing. It is not as new of an idea as we might think.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
I'd never buy Deere products. Too expensive compared to other brands that do the same thing. I looked at their small tractors, many $$$$ more than I paid for my LS.
Just curious...I know very little about tractor products....are Deere products made in the US vs the other cheaper brands you speak of?
I'd never buy Deere products. Too expensive compared to other brands that do the same thing. I looked at their small tractors, many $$$$ more than I paid for my LS.
Just curious...I know very little about tractor products....are Deere products made in the US vs the other cheaper brands you speak of?
Assembled in USA of global sourced parts is an accurate statement for Deere products and other similar companies.
I'd never buy Deere products. Too expensive compared to other brands that do the same thing. I looked at their small tractors, many $$$$ more than I paid for my LS.
Just curious...I know very little about tractor products....are Deere products made in the US vs the other cheaper brands you speak of?
Assembled in USA of global sourced parts is an accurate statement for Deere products and other similar companies.
When I was working in manufacturing I used to buy big John Deere axles to go into heavy off road construction equipment. Castings were poured in the Midwest then shipped to Mexico to be machined then the shipped back to the Midwest for assembly then the completed assembly was shipped to us in Texas. Hard to believe that was cheaper than paying union labor and building it all in one place.
I also bought 48hp-120hp John Deere engines.....many of them were made in Mexico.
I think it depends upon one's definition of "made". I'm not aware of any compact tractors <70 hp, made in the US. Actually not sure if all of them are even assembled here.
LS builds New Holland compacts and many Case/IH compacts, as well as the "Montana" brand.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
A solid incentive to invest in pre-1979 vehicles and equipment.
I can't imagine why anyone would want a tractor built after 1995. WHY would you want chips and sensors on a tractor? Who wants a computer to troubleshoot their tractor? No thank you.
A solid incentive to invest in pre-1979 vehicles and equipment. I can't imagine why anyone would want a tractor built after 1995. WHY would you want chips and sensors on a tractor? Who wants a computer to troubleshoot their tractor? No thank you.
basslover just today I told a guy I'd like to find an old beater truck to keep at the ranch that has zero computers, zero chips, zero sensors. If we ever get hit by an EMP attack it might come in handy (and bikes too). Plus I like old pickup trucks anyway.
A solid incentive to invest in pre-1979 vehicles and equipment. I can't imagine why anyone would want a tractor built after 1995. WHY would you want chips and sensors on a tractor? Who wants a computer to troubleshoot their tractor? No thank you.
basslover just today I told a guy I'd like to find an old beater truck to keep at the ranch that has zero computers, zero chips, zero sensors. If we ever get hit by an EMP attack it might come in handy (and bikes too). Plus I like old pickup trucks anyway.
I had a 65 Chevy truck in high school. I sure wish I still had it.
As usual, I think it depends. As I've noted previously, I find my new tractor loaded with amenities that I could live without. But none of those play a role in its ability to run, and run cleanly. "Chips and sensors" do allow manufacturers to build cleaner burning, quieter running, easier starting, vehicles and equipment. When was the last time you changed a set of points on your vehicle? I'll bet many here never have. Used to be, back in the good old days, you needed to tune up stuff...now you dont.
I don't miss points, or choke cables. And I still have equipment that uses both. But there's no way I want any more of that stuff coming to roost here. I like just getting in (on) and going to work, without letting stuff warm up on a frosty morning. Chips and sensors allow that. Pre 1979 usually didnt.
Then there's the matter of getting it worked on. If you have old stuff, you may need to be mechanically proficient, as some shops won't touch older equipment, as its not cost effective. That new warranty makes life nice in that regard.
As far as an emp goes, tests have shown a surprising lack of damage to newer vehicles. Truth is, they're shielded pretty well already. If they werent, you wouldn't be able to hear the stereo. And if the pulse is strong enough to still destroy their electronics, what about the fact that the ignition and starting systems on those old vehicles still rely on electromagnetic properties to function?
I reckon the tree still gets moved, whether by use of a hands aw or chainsaw. One just makes life easier.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
Everything you said is absolutely true, sprkplug. Technology has allowed manufacturers to build quality vehicles that run more efficient and for more miles than ever before. It has come with a price though. When something goes wrong and it will, you'd better plug it in to a computer cause you ain't gonna file the points and limp home. I quit tinkering with stuff anymore because my shade tree shenanigans only makes things worse. In general, I think people just miss simpler times. All the bad stuff like you mentioned gets forgotten. It's human nature to remember all the good stuff and forget the bad stuff. There's been plenty of times I cussed my hot rod because it wouldn't run, but when it did there was nothing better than the sound of that 4 barrel sucking air.
Oh yes nothing like sitting on your fender with your feet in the engine compartment and working on your ole 289..... I would still prefer do that now versus current crap. Now you don't learn anything you just hook it up it tells you whats wrong (supposedly) and even tells you how to fix it. WTH kind of a mechanic is that..... Crazy.
Also keep in mind any car 2010 or newer they can take control of from anywhere if they want to... don't think you have control of your vehicle they do... there nothing more then big ole remote control cars anymore..... no thanks....
RC
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Having a hot rod that you choose to drive at your discretion, is a little different than having to drive it everywhere, everyday.
Modern diagnostic aids do greatly help, but it still takes a tech to effect the repairs. If one doubts that, then jump under the hood of a new vehicle and get you some of that. Sort of like feeding the fish in our ponds, still takes skill to catch them even though they swim up when we approach, doesn't it?
I think a lot of resistance is due to the fact that "they" can do something.....never mind the fact there isn't a snowball's chance of it actually happening. Some just need to find reason to worry, and that's fine. But some of us just want to drive to the store, not work on the vehicle first.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
what about the fact that the ignition and starting systems on those old vehicles still rely on electromagnetic properties to function?
plus replenishment gas could be a problem even if your old truck might work better than a 2017 Raptor. and if the bad guys see you tooling around in a truck and they are on foot what ya think they are gonna do? wave and smile as you drive by?...lol
Along that same line...I have a friend right in the middle of Dallas that has his whole house covered with backup generators..he thinks "I'm ready"...I told him...that's all well and fine..but when all hell breaks loose and your house is the only one on the block with lights on and AC working, where ya think the hoodlums and bandits are gonna head to? of course it's good like the Boy Scout Motto..."Be Prepared"....but who knows how a scenario plays out...not something I worry about 24/7. Most of us with property/ponds in the country are probably slightly better off if the crazy stuff ever happens.
From the article it sounds like the computer knows if you replace parts(repair) and won't let the tractor run until a technician programs it to recognize the new part. That sucks!
The hand held diagnostic computers that can reprogram the master computer can be purchased. Also, parts stores have them and they have turned off warning lights for me for no charge after I fixed the problem. Had one come on one time after I inadvertently put E-85 in the tank on a road trip.
Farm equipment is not so easy as cars and pickups. I think the main reason is just numbers. I don't know the numbers, but maybe a tenth of one percent of tractors compared to the number of cars. Just not the incentive for after market products to be produced.
Another problem is there are multiple computers. One for the engine, one for the main tractor, one or two for hydraulics (depending on the number of outlets) and probably some more I don't know of.
The engine ECU's are popular enough several after market people are doing mods there to re-set the engine power. The legit ones are staying within EPa regs for a given family of engines (not setting power levels or settings above what the engine was designed and certified to produce within emission standards), unlike some products put out for pickup trucks.
I recall when Deere's legal eagles came out with that statement that farmers don't own their tractors because they are run with software that is only licensed. Did not set well with me. If they push it too far, I think they will just shoot themselves in the foot. They are not the only manufacturer that makes farm equipment. If they for some reason make their equipment less desirable to own, the market place will step in and fill needs.
That said, I just put in the field a new planter that has all the rows each individually driven by an electric motor that has an individual computer on each row right on the unit. 36 of them. Plus another computer on the back that controls the CAN-buss that talks to the tractor computer and I think another computer that talks to both the row computers and the CAN computer. Yikes! Alternator on the tractor PTO that drives it all. Then another computer in the tractor cab that controls it all. So far it seems to work. I guess I don't own the planter either because of the computer software owned and only licensed by Deere.
I would still prefer do that now versus current crap. Now you don't learn anything you just hook it up it tells you whats wrong (supposedly) and even tells you how to fix it. WTH kind of a mechanic is that..... Crazy.
