Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Water chemistry cow manure in water

I am in Bolivia. I am just filling a pond that I dammed up over a year ago and has since filled about a quarter way with rainfall. I'm currently filling from a well and it is about 3/4 full at this point.

I just contacted a local well respected fish expert. He recommends treating the water with lime and cow manure before stocking. The idea, he says, is to get algae and plankton to grow for the fish to feed on. (I will be stocking Surubi (a South American catfish) and Pacu (an omnivorous distant cousin to piranha). He said the goal is to end up with dark emerald green water.

Of course, at first though, putting manure in the pond where fish I will be eating live don't sound right. I did find an article describing this practice in asia
http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0541e/T0541E0d.htm
but it seems the technique is just used to reduce the amount of feed needed.

I prefer to have water as clear as possible and don't mind extra feed.

Just throwing this out for ideas and opinions. Do you think Id be just as well off clearing the muddy water up with lime, NOT using manure, and just planning on feeding more?

Thanks in advance.

You really won't need to add manure or fertilizer if you feed the fish pelleted food on a daily or regular basis. The frequency of pellet feeding and amount of pellets daily play big parts for the basic production. The "green water" from manure or fertilizer is an alternative fish growing method. Manure is very low cost way to do it which is why the local fish expert suggested it. Note in the study it said: tilapia grew same with all methods "but the carp fed on pellets grew faster than the other two groups". I suspect that your selected fish will also grow best on pellets, but it will not be the cheapest way to grow them.

Fish pellets serve as an alternative to natural foods produced in the pond. Have you checked the pH or alkalinity in your new pond? There should be basic water test kits in pet stores in Bolivia. Actually if you feed the fish pellets as an alternative to "green water" the pond can have low pH and still produce a very large fish crop.

Keep us updated as to your fish growing progress in Bolivia. Your results will be interesting. We are always glad to help with advice.
Do you have an estimated depth of the pond when full?

Thanks! Sounds like sound advice. They're going to think Im crazy for not doing it the cheap way, but I think I will go with only feed.

Id estimate the pond to be probably just over half an acre (maybe 3/4), and its probably around 10 feet at the deepest point. Its made from a natural break/valley between hills. I built a levee on the open end of it and am filling it from a well I had drilled.

Will report back progress as I go.

Many thanks for the advice.

One thing to remember. Well water is not oxygenated. Run it over some rocks or other baffles to break it up and oxygenate.

thanks for that. I plan on putting a floating pump for that at some point. I guess it should be before I add fish? Gonna read as much as I can here and get the water right before putting fish in.

Thanks for the advice!

Is the floating pump for spraying water into the air? If so, that is good for aesthetics but does little for oxygenation where it is needed.

that was the intention. Whats the recommended way of oxygenation ?

Bottom aeration actually creates small underwater "wavelets". I'm not an expert on it. Check out the Systems Questions area here.

will do. thanks. meanwhile yours is the first advice implemented from this forum (see pic attached). its all "spit and glue" but hopefully it will do a little good. Some things in my favor are that its rainy season so sigficant fill is coming from that, and I can see bubbles coming up from where the water is settling in ... probably slowly filling armadillo holes.
diy aeration

The link didn't show the diy aeration.

You might know this stuff but I'll post it anyway. Clear water is seldom productive water for fish. You should have about 18 to 24 inches of clarity. It all starts with phytoplankton(microscopic plants) that is fed on by zooplankton microscopic bugs). The zoo is eaten by the next size bugs which is eaten by bigger bugs until the bigger bug is eaten by a tiny fish. They are, in turn, eaten by successively fish up the food chain.

The phyto needs to be numerous enough to keep that visibility to the 18 to 24 inches. They/it is the bottom of the food chain.

Water visibilty of 18"-24" is productive for growing fish and reducing the amount of nuisance plant growth such as filamentous algae and submerged plants. However if you regularly feed the fish pellets the greenish productive water is not as necessary. Feeding pellets to a fish productive system does add nutrients from fish manure to stimulate some growth by planktonic algae and zooplankton. The amount grown depends on how green the water becomes toward 12"-24". Many fish production ponds such as you are planning are relatively turbid due to lots of plaktonic growth from abundant fish manure.

Your photo shows brownish pond water in the background which is likely due to mostly very tiny particles of sediment from a newly built pond. Suspended silt particles in this brown water reduce light penetration and slows planktonic algae growth. Not all bad if you are pellet feeding fish to keep them growing.

just running it over some bricks to break it up. maybe aeration was too strong a word

I know nothing. this is my first go at this. Your advice is much appreciated!

You are correct on the brown water. the water is brown because of run off from rain where the dozer worked. I had a lot of erosion that Im slowly getting under control. Once the erosion is in check I plan to put lime in the water to clear it up. I'm told here by the locals to put the lime in before the fish and wait till the water clears to put the fish. I'm assuming thats because of the PH so Ill check that before putting fish.

i put some of the water in a coke bottle a few months ago and even though there is some sediment, it is still brown. A second coke bottle I added vinegar to cleared right up in few days. I read somewhere this means that straw or hay might clear the water up. Im strongly leaning toward using lime right now but still trying to educate myself first.

thanks for the advice.

Do you have access to alum?

I do. Any particular spec or grade or type? what does it do to pond water?

Google "Alum Pond Boss" and all will become "clear" . Rainman here on the forum is the real pro with Alum. I know he is willing to travel to clear folks ponds but I don't think Bolivia is currently on his route. You can PM him though. He is a great guy and always willing to offer advice.

If no fish are present, you can use Ag Lime for long term pH and Calcium Carbonate benefits, and use Hydrated Lime (Calcium Hydroxide) to clear the water. If you use the Hydrated Lime, wait a couple weeks for the pH to drop back below 8.5 before adding fish. You can use and grade of Alum (AlSO4 Aluminum Sulfate) at a rate of 50-75Kg per acre foot of water.

Thanks Rainman! If I use the Lime and Alum to clear the silt, can I still cultivate algae if I decide I want to set up an ecosystem so that I can feed less?

In case you missed this recent thread...Here is a good example of using the Alum and Hydrated lime to clear muddy water.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=466433#Post466433



IMO clearing the muddy water will increase sunlight penetration which will actually improve and encourage growth of plankton, algae, rooted vegetation, etc.

Thanks, Bill. I've got a capybara visiting most nights so he'll be glad to hear that.

Appreciate the link. I've got to figure out what kind of lime we have here. I think it's hydrated lime since Im being told to put the lime in before the fish by the locals. We have aluminum sulfate here ... they use it in swimming pools ... no one locally has mentioned using it in fish ponds but Im sure it will work.

well . . . the locals are telling me that Pacu don't fare well in clear water. Apparently the consensus is that the sun is too strong here in the tropics. One guy told me it would cause fungus to grow on the fish. Not sure I buy that as I always thought sun killed fungus. Anyway ... I might just leave the water "natural" ... except maybe try to aerate it somehow. Pretty sure I wont be using manure though.

If your pond produces clear water (depending on definition of clear) then you could get a few pacu and perform your own test to see if they survive in your clear water. Do your best to catch them and haul them with as little slime removal as possible. Loss of slime is usually the cause of fungus on fish. It is good to hold and haul fish in a low concentration of non-iodine salt in the water. Salt helps maintain the slime layer. Use 30-40grams salt per 10 L(16oz/32gal). Pacu should not be harmed by a low salt concentration?

I have raised pacing here in Texas and they do fine in aquarium clear water so not sure
Why they say different

im really thinking the guy that told me that was full of it. He was in a hurry to sell me some juvenile pacu. Im in dialog with a local who seems to be more up front and he says its ok to clear the water up ... he's retired from the business and is just giving me advice