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#465200 - 02/27/17 10:50 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
Tbar Offline


Registered: 01/10/15
Posts: 673
Loc: Texas
Back in 2000 I got my son started helping maintain our first property with the little 49 Farmall Cub. It freed the wife and I up to build the cabin.

Getting them started young.



Old tractors at work. Working with my SIL.

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#465201 - 02/27/17 11:01 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: sprkplug]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4243
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
My JD 410E is a beast of a machine, but I still do not feel very comfortable moving it around, especially in close quarters in the barn.

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#465203 - 02/27/17 11:03 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
John please don't think I'm suggesting you bought the wrong size tractor, as that is absolutely not so. We all have different needs, and evaluate our purchases based on those needs. I know you will love that tractor, and find all sorts of work for it to do....if you haven't already!
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#465207 - 02/27/17 12:09 PM Re: Tractor for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 776
Loc: Paris, TX
Originally Posted By: John F
I wonder if six 60 pound sandbags would be about the right weight? Combined with the box weight, that would be 492 pounds.


I would use sand, but leave enough space to cover top and have a place for tools, chain, etc. You will always need a chain or strap.
_________________________
1.8 acre pond with FHM(gone), CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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#465208 - 02/27/17 12:17 PM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small placesson [Re: snrub]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 776
Loc: Paris, TX
Originally Posted By: snrub
John be sure and read the operators manual on proper ballasting for loader use.

Two reasons. One is safety. Having enough weight on the rear of the tractor, especially low center of gravity weight, makes the tractor more stable with a bucket load in the loader. Keep the bucket low to the ground when loaded except when raising to dump. Never be turning a corner with the bucket fully raised loaded unless you absolutely have to, then slowly and carefully. But you probably already knew that.

The other reason is to prolong the life of the mechanical front wheel drive. With inadequate rear weight, that little front differential and associated parts takes the full horsepower of the engine. With adequate weight on the back the rear wheels are doing their fair share of the work so the load is distrubuted away from the front end. One of the weakest links on the small 4wd tractors is the front drive mechanism. They take a lot of abuse and for as small as they are, they are not cheap to repair. So do yourself a favor and weight the rear properly for loader work.

There are several ways to acomplish this. Rear cast wheel weights, fluid in the rear tires, a rear mounted implement on the 3pt hitch, or a weight box built for the 3pt hitch.

I use a combination of cast weight and windshield washer fluid in the rear tires (tire dealer can do it - we buy in 55 gallon drums) plus usually a box blade on the rear. As I recall my JD manuals for the numerous 5000 series tractors I have owned recomended at least two types of rear ballast to get enough rear weight. Adequate rear weight will make the tractor more stable on hillsides, will make it work better with a loader, and will prolong the life of the front wheel drive.

When we owned commercial turkey grow out barns we used a weight box filled with concrete because the tractor loaders were used extensively in close quarter buildings (rear blades tended to reach out and grab trusses). But for most home owners a rear blade of some sort will suffice for part of the weight. Check the manual. It should give minimum recomendations.

Just a tip for better tractor use.


This is VERY VERY GOOD info. Tractors will lift more than they can carry or become unstable if used outside or right at their limits. GO SLOW.
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1.8 acre pond with FHM(gone), CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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#465246 - 02/27/17 08:52 PM Re: Tractor for maintaining small places [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2040
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I could only fit 250 pounds of sand bags into my weight box, so with sand, box itself, and chain (in box), I have about 405 pounds hanging off the back. That will have to do for now. It seems more stable on slopes. I hauled a couple of bucket loads of bricks to my new pond and dumped them in what will be about 3 FOW. The hitch came in handy too for pulling my trailer around.

Snrub, you have more experience with tractors than anyone else I have met. I appreciate your insight. Your posts are always well thought out.
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#465248 - 02/27/17 09:32 PM Re: Tractor for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Still looking around, have decided on 45 hp minimum, with a base, non-additional weight of at least 4000 lbs. Also considering keeping the two tractors we already have, and adding a skid steer with bucket.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#465252 - 02/27/17 10:32 PM Re: Tractor for maintaining small places [Re: RAH]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: RAH
My JD1070 has never needed work on the front end. Next size up from the 970. My loader is a Great Bend. Tried the JD loader, but it hit the exhaust.


His problems were entirely caused by the baler twine taking out the seals. Otherwise I don't think there would have ever been an issue. It was not the tractors fault at all. The tractor overall has been a good one.
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#465253 - 02/27/17 10:40 PM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: John F
I couldn't justify buying the next size larger tractor for what I will do with it: occasional dragging of brush, a motorized wheelbarrow for carrying rocks, dirt, and mulch. Also pulling a trailer around the place once in a while. General light duty maintenance. Plus, my shed is not very big and only has a 8 x 7 ft door.


I think you bought the perfect size for your acreage and ponds John. That is the size I had with my JD2520 and it was a great little tractor. I had it several years and did a lot of work around my current ponds. Two reasons I traded up in size. One was I thought the larger tires and heavier tractor might be a little easier on my bad back. Not bounce around quite as bad. The other was I just had a hankering for something a little bigger. Bigger isn't better if you don't need it. Smaller gets around in tight places better.
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#465254 - 02/27/17 11:00 PM Re: Tractor for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: John F
I could only fit 250 pounds of sand bags into my weight box, so with sand, box itself, and chain (in box), I have about 405 pounds hanging off the back. That will have to do for now. It seems more stable on slopes. I hauled a couple of bucket loads of bricks to my new pond and dumped them in what will be about 3 FOW. The hitch came in handy too for pulling my trailer around.

Snrub, you have more experience with tractors than anyone else I have met. I appreciate your insight. Your posts are always well thought out.


That may be enough. It depends entirely what you are going to be doing with it. For 90% of what you will be doing that probably will be more than adequate. For just tooling aroud with a little fire wood or doing yard maintenence you don't need any rear weight.

But if you are going to be doing some prolonged serious digging, to complete a dirt project for example, having adequate rear weight will make the tractor work better, last longer, and be safer.

When you first start to do any heavy digging with it, as you lift the load and go into reverse, just pay attention to how the tractor acts. If it seems a little goosey on the back it indicates you could use some more weight. It is telling you if you go to raising the bucket to full height it is not going to be as stable or safe as it could be, so be much more careful. You will get a feel for it. If you dig a full bucket of dirt, go into reverse, and the back tires seem like they want to come off the ground or do come off the ground, you don't have enough rear weight. Either take smaller buckets full or get some more weight.

I did not mean to make a huge deal about the front ends. They are not weak and are made to be used. But just as using a tool properly will make a tool last longer, using it improperly may shorten its life. If the tractor manual recomends added rear weight when doing loader work, if a person wants his tractor to be safe and last a long time usually the manual offers good advice. Now if all you have in the bucket is a few flower pots, of course you do not need to worry about having the weight box on. But if you have a ten ton load of gravel delivered and you are going to be scooping it all up, carrying it around, and doing some heavy work with the loader, by all means have the weight box or some other rear weight (like a blade) on. The tractor and loader will work better, work safer, and likely last longer because both axles are sharing the load properly.


Edited by snrub (02/27/17 11:03 PM)
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#465255 - 02/27/17 11:22 PM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: Tbar]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Tbar I owned a Farmall Cub once upon a time. While in high school I was taking a post high three hour class "Farm Power and Machinery". I bought the Cub and implements as a project and attempt to make a few bucks. I did some maintenence on it and mostly gave it a paint job and new decals. Played with it for about 6 months. It had a plow, sicle mower with it. One bottom plow. Plowed my teachers garden with it.

Sold it and about broke even after costs incurred. But I had a lot of fun doing it and playing with the little 10 hp 4 cylinder tractor. Someone could actually grab the drawbar and try to stop it and listen to the governer open up. They were kind of gutless wonders, but still quite the little tractor for their day.

Can't remember the year, but it was right around 49 to maybe a 51. Looked just like yours.


Edited by snrub (02/27/17 11:24 PM)
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#465260 - 02/28/17 06:57 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
I'm all over the place with buying another tractor. Woke up this morning and was leaning towards just keeping what we have, then I read snrub's last few posts and they only served to reinforce that feeling. I think I'm getting "want", confused with "need".

What do I need a FEL for? With the tractors and implements we already have, we're set pretty well. We do have a long driveway, and we keep number 2 and number 5 stone stockpiled for maintenance on it. Right now that involves shoveling 600 pounds or so into the Kawasaki mule, and shoveling it back out into the holes. The yard box and the 801 takes care of grading.

It would be nice to just scoop some into the bucket, drive to the spot and dump it, then back drag it smooth. But does that justify another, substantial purchase? I honestly can't think of another use for the loader. The mule is just the ticket for yard chores, as well as hauling saws and tools to cut wood, and the trailer hooked to the 801 will haul way more wood at one time than a bucket ever thought about.

I'm sure I would come up with more uses for it, but that's kinda' like stopping at the yard sale you just drove by, just to browse....if you aren't looking for a particular whatever, do you really need to buy something else just because it's there?
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#465262 - 02/28/17 07:23 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: sprkplug]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
LOL.

Tony, I have come to the conclusion that there are precious few things in life I "need". The vast majority comes down to want.

Questions I try to evaluate are first of all, can I afford it? Second, will it somehow improve my life and make it more enjoyable or detract from it? Is there something else that the money would be better spent on? (That is the really tough one).

Since my kids are grown other than a few essentials most everything of mine now boils down to wants. When I had a young family, those questions were harder to answer to, than since I have been retired.

Edit: as an alternative, how about a rear scoop for your 3pt hitch? They can be run in forward or reverse position to scoop up rock. scoops


Edited by snrub (02/28/17 07:31 AM)
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#465268 - 02/28/17 08:41 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas


Edited by snrub (02/28/17 09:50 AM)
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#465277 - 02/28/17 09:02 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: snrub]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4243
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I used a slip scoop for a lot of years. Gave it to a friend after adding a FEL to my tractor.

https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/grd/6023163937.html


Edited by RAH (02/28/17 09:18 AM)

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#465283 - 02/28/17 09:27 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: sprkplug]
fish n chips Offline


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2315
Loc: Northeast Ohio
I still use one of those scoops that Snrub refers to. It's perfect for what you mention Spark. I always hook it up to back into stuff. Dump the gravel in the hole, and then drop it down and flatten it by dragging over. No lifting and very little raking left to do. A lot cheaper than buying a new tractor Sparkie.

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#465286 - 02/28/17 09:34 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Yeah, we have a slip scoop with trip. It does a fair job.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#465289 - 02/28/17 09:40 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Course, if I keep the Ford, that means more wrench turning....just replaced a power steering line this past weekend. A section of steel brake line, a flaring setup, and some judicious bending and bam, a $200 Ford part for less than $10.

Maybe I'm just getting lazy. I can shovel, and I can repair the tractors we have, I just don't want too.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#465291 - 02/28/17 09:48 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: sprkplug]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
That is the thing about the older stuff. If you are handy with a wrench and don't mind doing it, they can be economical. But if a person has to depend on $100 per hour shop rates and is limited on time and wants the tractor to go when needed, new starts looking more attractive.

On another note, I have seen where people were trying to dig a very small pond with a front end loader. If I was using a small tractor to move much dirt, I would have one of those scoops on the rear and a bucket on the front. Move twice the dirt every go-round. Load the rear scoop for weight on back, then load the loader bucket full.


Edited by snrub (02/28/17 09:51 AM)
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#465292 - 02/28/17 09:53 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
My experience with older FEL's is that they are much better suited at moving dirt rather than digging. I have known folks dig a decent hole with the slip scoops, though.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#465293 - 02/28/17 09:59 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: sprkplug]
dlowrance Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 857
Loc: Central IL
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
My experience with older FEL's is that they are much better suited at moving dirt rather than digging. I have known folks dig a decent hole with the slip scoops, though.


X2 - I'll use my box blade at a high angle or a pond scoop to 'dig' - then use the loader to scoop the loose dirt.

Trying to dig with a standard FEL on a tractor is asking for trouble. They're not made for that.

Now a properly set up skid steer? Different story.
_________________________
Dale



"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water." - anonymous

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#465294 - 02/28/17 10:02 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
This is cool. Never seen one before as a bucket attachment for small tractors.

bucket rake

Edit: anybody starting to think I have too much time on my hands? grin laugh

something similar but different Kind of boring video and guy is still learning to run the loader....... may want to fast forward a lot

Pirrana piranha blade

Need to bury some air lines???
loader trenching attachment

This what I want........er......."need". Yeah, that's it, I need it. Have wanted a grappel for a long time on the small tractor. Two things though. First, they get pricey. Second, they require aux hydraulics on the tractor so get even more pricey.
grappel bucket John the tractor in this video is the model I used to have and about the size of your tractor I believe. Important note: if you go to pushing brush with your loader or using a grappel like in the video, it is VERY easy for a limb to slip by and at best damage your grill or worst poke a hole in your radiator. Your grapple bucket loader tractor and your wife are two things you do not want to loan to your buddies or neighbor. They likely will come back with damage. Oh, and motorcycles too.

This video is for gift items (might want to slip this video into your wifes inbox around November 15). It is specific to Deere, but many things are available for other brands or gives ideas for them. tractor lovers gift ideas do a search for heavyhitch,com fot the brand he talks about. Bob Lusk, another potential advertiser! Lots of pond owners have compact tractors!


Edited by snrub (02/28/17 11:05 AM)
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#465305 - 02/28/17 11:02 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
BrianL Offline


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 776
Loc: Paris, TX
Another suggestion is a tiller. They works great on that size tractor. You can use it for tilling or I used mine for digging. Much easier on the tractor to till and remove dirt than just digging with the bucket. You can dig your own topsoil and move it where you need it.

Forks are also a huge help. I use forks more than the bucket.

I bought mine from Titan nearly as cheap as the last set I built.


Edited by BrianL (02/28/17 11:05 AM)
_________________________
1.8 acre pond with FHM(gone), CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.

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#465306 - 02/28/17 11:10 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: BrianL]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Very good ideas. I have both forks and a tiller and they work well.

You brought up a very good point that I forget to use. If you are wanting fine dirt, till it up first with the tiller before loading. I usually don't think of that, dig it up in big grassy clumps, THEN try to do something with it. Your way is much smarter! Dugh! wink

That is one reason I posted all these links. Some of this stuff a person may just not think about being available or about using your tractor for. I have found them entertaining if nothing else, so thouht I would share them.


Edited by snrub (02/28/17 11:10 AM)
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#465316 - 02/28/17 11:32 AM Re: Tractor or ? for maintaining small places [Re: John Fitzgerald]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
The option of using skid steer attachments in place of the bucket does offer interesting possibilities.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
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