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I hear you Tums. And I were faced with keeping several hundred pieces of equipment functioning 24/7, I might feel the same as you. Fortunately however, we're talking consumer usage here, so it's essentially a non-issue.

I am curious though, what are your plans for the future? Adopt the inevitable technology, hope to stumble across a warehouse full of brand new, pre-emissions equipment that has just been sitting in storage, or go out of business?

Change is constant, whether it be a pond or clean burn technology. I see it as learning to adapt, or being left behind. I don't have to like it, but there's not much I can do to escape it. Might as well educate myself and keep moving forward.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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The manufacturer's that find ways to make durable machines will reap the rewards (think Japanese cars), and the rest will be forced to follow. Most cars now go 200K rather than 100K. The trend is clear but it has its ups and downs.. I am glad that I took care of my JD1070 and hope my 550G dozer and 410E hoe never die.

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Originally Posted By: RAH
The manufacturer's that find ways to make durable machines will reap the rewards (think Japanese cars), and the rest will be forced to follow. Most cars now go 200K rather than 100K. The trend is clear but it has its ups and downs.. I am glad that I took care of my JD1070 and hope my 550G dozer and 410E hoe never die.


Exactly! In the beginning, catalytic converters and egr valves stopped up, and charcoal canisters filled vacuum passages with black granules. Taxi fleets, municipal shops, and dealership mechanics all cried and stomped their feet while administration watched productivity and the bottom line shrink.

But emission technology didn't go away. And the ones who stuck it out, learned to adapt. And the manufacturers learned also. And now, we seldom see issues at all. Diesel, will follow suit. Clean diesels are not going away...get on board, get left behind, or retire. You will need to make changes, and change is scary, but it will still happen.

Nothing wrong with holding on to pre emission diesels, nothing at all. But if no one buys new, then why would manufacturers continue production? If we all refuse to buy new, then there won't be any replacement when that old diesel eventually gives out. THEN, we wouldn't care if it burned wet leaves...we just want a replacement. I'm hoping that folks keep buying, and factories keep improving.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I got a used 2016 LS brand XJ2025HT. Had 23 hours on it, and most of factory warranty left. There is no new emissions equipment on this motor. The dealer told me that under 25 HP are exempt from the new requirements. It's 24.4 HP. I got it with loader and 5 foot grader blade. Industrial tires.

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I think you will really enjoy it John.

Good for you!


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Awesome!!!!

I'm betting you will wonder how you ever got along without it.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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And John F, if you'd like to experience a forum of tractor lovers right along the lines PondBoss forum is for pond lovers, take a look at tractorbynet.com.

It's another civil, experienced, responsive group of people like ourselves only with all things tractor on the brain. There are wonderful threads on DIY fabricating, snow plowing, how stuff works, repairs, on and on.

I recommend the tractorbynet.com forum to any and all who are interested in these kinds of things.

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My limited economics knowledge suggests that buying inferior products does not spur innovation. Refusing to buy them does. Folks tend to follow rewards. Reward poor performance and you can be sure to get more of the same. Detroit stepped up when they lost sales to Japan. BTW - My JD 1070 has a Yanmar engine and the tractor was made in Japan. The dealer bragged the tractor was engineered by Deere, so I told him I would gamble on that and buy it anyway:)

Last edited by RAH; 02/23/17 06:58 AM.
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If no one buys inferior products, how is the conclusion that they are indeed inferior, reached?

Do people really expect to have every possible contingency and circumstance accounted for in the laboratory or research facility? We're still talking built by human beings, right?

Maybe it's just too many years spent making a living working on and selling equipment, but the idea that perfection of any mechanical device is due once I open my wallet, I find ludicrous. I do expect the manufacturer to work with me in resolving issues rather than abandon me after the sale, but I recognize that unaccounted for variables may exist and rear their heads in an unfortunate manner.

How the manufacturer responds to that determines whether or not I continue to do business with that entity, not so much the design of the equipment itself...that can be changed. Policy is another story.

Emission controls are here to stay. They will continue to evolve, but they absolutely aren't going away. No company, offshore or otherwise, has it all figured out right now. It's all a continual work in progress.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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No matter what color the tractor, assure that a dealer for maintenance is local. My closest is about 50 miles either North or South.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
No matter what color the tractor, assure that a dealer for maintenance is local. My closest is about 50 miles either North or South.


Absolutely!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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The dealer I bought from is about 75 miles away and is the closest warranty dealer. It was a compromise to save $2,400. On the way home, I found that my 3500 lb 2-wheel trailer is marginal for transport. I had a flat about a third of the way home, fortunately near the small town of Ozark. I put the spare on, it seemed marginal, so we went into town, found a tire shop, and bought a good tire. If I have to take it back for warranty, I think I will borrow or rent a 4-wheel trailer. The trailer hubs never became more than slightly warm, but the tires seemed overloaded, even though the total load was only about 2,800 pounds, plus the trailer itself.

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You will love having a tractor. In a years time you will think it is impossible to live without one.


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
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Congrats John F

Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I hear you Tums. And I were faced with keeping several hundred pieces of equipment functioning 24/7, I might feel the same as you. Fortunately however, we're talking consumer usage here, so it's essentially a non-issue.

I am curious though, what are your plans for the future? Adopt the inevitable technology, hope to stumble across a warehouse full of brand new, pre-emissions equipment that has just been sitting in storage, or go out of business?

Change is constant, whether it be a pond or clean burn technology. I see it as learning to adapt, or being left behind. I don't have to like it, but there's not much I can do to escape it. Might as well educate myself and keep moving forward.


LOL the reason why I know all the pit falls of Tier 4 is I am proactive. Business do Tier 4 since we do not have any other viable options. In order to keep contracts in the go green era your equipment must constantly be moving in that direction. See a lot of big business will say you must have X# of Smartway EQ (Going Green) to be eligible for contract. We Had the first Caterpillar Tier 4 engine in Alabama in 2006. I even carried it to a Caterpillar open house with our then Governor in attendance. Anyway I excepted the technology and we passed the extra expenses on to the consumer. I am constantly working to fix it before it breaks through maintenance programs and other options (no idle tech ect). I have been in the business 30 years and Tier 4 is viable big business option. I however do know small mom and pop business that Tier 4 done them in. I personally will not own the current Tier 4 emission EQ for my private recreational use. I feel my personal money would be better spent refurbishing old school EQ for my own private recreation use. It is not like I can not get the parts as all of this stuff is still being made new for non Tier 4 countries. Cat stopped producing Tier 4 on highway engines for Tier 4 countries. They did not stop making engines for the rest of the world.

BTW I know were there is 20 New Cat pre emissions engines in storage. wink

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Sweet! Now all you need to do is divide those 20 engines between the several hundred pieces of equipment you're responsible for, and you'll be able to eek out another ?????? Years of production.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Those big companies get government contracts so tax dollars pay for the regulation and then pay again to fix the broken pollution controls put in place to meet them. We need environmental regulation, but IMO things have gotten out of control. We'll see where things land in 4 years...

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Oh crap,there goes the thread..


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Sweet! Now all you need to do is divide those 20 engines between the several hundred pieces of equipment you're responsible for, and you'll be able to eek out another ?????? Years of production.

I only use them when the block is no good for a engine rebuild. Part of being in early on Tier 4 we was able to establish were we needed to use the older EQ and what would be the best way to use T4+ EQ.

Originally Posted By: RAH
Those big companies get government contracts so tax dollars pay for the regulation and then pay again to fix the broken pollution controls put in place to meet them. We need environmental regulation, but IMO things have gotten out of control. We'll see where things land in 4 years...

Actually it has graduated to 2nd tier were in order to do business with big companies that get government contracts you must comply. Lets say you are a trucking company and want to haul loads of paper for X Paper company by contract from say Alabama to States in the Southeast. In order to get the contract you will needs X% of equipment that complies with California Regulations. This means you will needs X% equipment regulated down to what kind of tires you can even put on it.

Last edited by Tums; 02/23/17 02:49 PM.
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John be sure and read the operators manual on proper ballasting for loader use.

Two reasons. One is safety. Having enough weight on the rear of the tractor, especially low center of gravity weight, makes the tractor more stable with a bucket load in the loader. Keep the bucket low to the ground when loaded except when raising to dump. Never be turning a corner with the bucket fully raised loaded unless you absolutely have to, then slowly and carefully. But you probably already knew that.

The other reason is to prolong the life of the mechanical front wheel drive. With inadequate rear weight, that little front differential and associated parts takes the full horsepower of the engine. With adequate weight on the back the rear wheels are doing their fair share of the work so the load is distrubuted away from the front end. One of the weakest links on the small 4wd tractors is the front drive mechanism. They take a lot of abuse and for as small as they are, they are not cheap to repair. So do yourself a favor and weight the rear properly for loader work.

There are several ways to acomplish this. Rear cast wheel weights, fluid in the rear tires, a rear mounted implement on the 3pt hitch, or a weight box built for the 3pt hitch.

I use a combination of cast weight and windshield washer fluid in the rear tires (tire dealer can do it - we buy in 55 gallon drums) plus usually a box blade on the rear. As I recall my JD manuals for the numerous 5000 series tractors I have owned recomended at least two types of rear ballast to get enough rear weight. Adequate rear weight will make the tractor more stable on hillsides, will make it work better with a loader, and will prolong the life of the front wheel drive.

When we owned commercial turkey grow out barns we used a weight box filled with concrete because the tractor loaders were used extensively in close quarter buildings (rear blades tended to reach out and grab trusses). But for most home owners a rear blade of some sort will suffice for part of the weight. Check the manual. It should give minimum recomendations.

Just a tip for better tractor use.

Last edited by snrub; 02/23/17 03:47 PM.

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Originally Posted By: John F
I got a used 2016 LS brand XJ2025HT. Had 23 hours on it, and most of factory warranty left. There is no new emissions equipment on this motor. The dealer told me that under 25 HP are exempt from the new requirements. It's 24.4 HP. I got it with loader and 5 foot grader blade. Industrial tires.


Well done John! You won't regret it. Have you started sourcing for additional attachments yet? grin


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Here's a picture taken today. We did a bunch of yard work.

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Very very nice! You have a garden planted and growing already in February????

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Cute!

That is about the same size as the JD 2520 I had. Loved that little tractor and did a ton of the work around my ponds you saw.

You will love it.

Your Christmas wish list should include a box blade, tiller, pallet fork attachment, and 4' brush cutter.

Esshup has a grapple on his bucket which I think would be the cats meow. I have a grapple attachment on a rock picking bucket on a larger tractor loader and it is amazing how much hand pickup work that can save.

Last edited by snrub; 02/23/17 10:33 PM.

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That is a good looking loader.

The good features I notice are the dump linkage on the bucket. That type linkage compared to the cylinders being directly attached to the quick tatch means better dump angle and roll back. My 3038E does not have the rollback force I think it should have.

It has a quick tatch on off. I rarely took the loader off my 2520 but if a person wants to mow or till in really tight quarters, removing it can cut the length of the tractor significantly improving mobility. I usually just drop the bucket when mowing.

Bucket level indicator I would not be without.

I like it!

Last edited by snrub; 02/23/17 10:44 PM.

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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Very very nice! You have a garden planted and growing already in February????


No, not yet, but it was about 80 degrees today. That's just some winter cover growing in the garden. We don't usually plant warm season garden plants until about April 20 or so. We sometimes have wild temperature swings day to day.

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