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#464599 02/21/17 11:44 AM
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I've done some preliminary PH test in my new 1/3 acre pond. The PH seems to be around 5.75. I was wondering if adding sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) would help or be detrimental in any way.

Joe Fisherman #464600 02/21/17 11:47 AM
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I would suggest ag lime.


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
BrianL #464604 02/21/17 12:49 PM
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Joe,
If you are comfortable with the accuracy of your measurement, determine the approx. amount (acre/feet) of water you have in your pond and get with an ag lime supplier for the amount needed. With ag lime its really hard to put too much.
Charlie

Last edited by stickem'; 02/21/17 12:52 PM.

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stickem' #464609 02/21/17 01:22 PM
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I'm not familiar with ag lime. Is this agriculture lime? Would this be the same stuff I get at tractor supply for my garden which is pulverized lime?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/nalcbrite-hi-calcium-lime-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005

Joe Fisherman #464613 02/21/17 02:12 PM
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Same stuff but instead of 280.00/ton, bulk is about $12-15/ton OR about $35-40/ton delivered and spread. Usually requires a min. amount of around 6 tons, but you can put what you need in the pond, and the rest in the water shed areas above pond

Last edited by BrianL; 02/21/17 02:14 PM.

1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
BrianL #464707 02/22/17 09:03 AM
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Thanks guys for all your help.

First thing I'm going to need to do is get some accurate measurements to determine just how much water is this pond.

Thanks again!

Joe Fisherman #464726 02/22/17 12:49 PM
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Is there fish in the pond?

Hydrated lime is much more effective per pound but can shock the fish.


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7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.
DonoBBD #464819 02/23/17 10:07 AM
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I don't think there are many. A family of river otters have moved in and decimated the population. I've seen a school of 50 or so small bluegills but all attempts have hooking anything in the pond have turned up nil.

The wife is giving me grief about shooting the otters or they would be gone already. Something will have to give soon but I have some work to do on the pond before I stock it so I guess it's not hurting too much to let them be for a short time. Their burrow looks to be in a side bank and not the dam.

Muck issues, PH issues, otter issues, turbidity issues, yea... I got some work to do.

Joe Fisherman #465903 03/06/17 10:24 AM
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I dumped 400 lbs of powdered farm lime in a few spots around the pond. Not sure if this will be enough but I figure it will be a good start. I'll check the PH in a week or two and report back any changes.

Joe Fisherman #465904 03/06/17 10:29 AM
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JoeF you will likely discover that with a pH of 5.7 you need at least 1 ton of lime as a starting point. Once you get the alkalinity increased, a lime application will be needed every 3-4 yrs similar to many agricultural fields where farmers have to maintain good pH for crops.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/06/17 10:31 AM.

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Bill Cody #465940 03/06/17 04:12 PM
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Thanks Bill,

It's good to have a ball park figure like that to start working with. I need to get an accurate measure of volume of the pond so I can get good recommendations from you experts. I'm working on that.

I'm only able to take loads of bagged lime down to the pond in small trips but I thought a little at a time is better than nothing. Plus, I still have not got as in depth of water analysis as I would like yet but I was sure it would need some lime at least. I have some water samples from before the lime and an API Pond care Master Liquid Test Kit on order to get a more in depth idea of the water balance.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002DJNN0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll be sure to report back my findings.

Thanks again for the tips. You guys Rock!

Joe Fisherman #467188 03/20/17 03:40 PM
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After about a week after dumping the lime I retested the water and at the time of testing it's looks to be up to a ph of around 7. I used a TDS meter and had a ppm of 47 so the PH is most likely varying quite a bit.

Here are the results from the test kit. From my limited knowledge the rest of the tests seem to be a sign of good water quality but would appreciate a second opinion.

I do plan to dump more lime at some point in the near future and would also like to do a better PH test where I take samples at morning, noon, and dusk.








Joe Fisherman #470854 04/30/17 12:32 PM
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We have a pond full of Catfish with heavy clay soil. After the big winter rains in California it was looking very turbid. In the past we have had great success adding Liquid Alum to clear things up. This time unlike many treatments before our Ph dropped like a rock to around 6. We know that is a common result with non buffered Alum, but this one caught us by surprise. Killed some fingerling size and shocked the bigger ones so much, it took them a week or more to start eating again. 6 weeks later Ph still low 6.4ish, after reading about our options we bought Sodium Bicarbonate dry to try and bring it up to more normal levels. Has anyone used this to raise ph? If so, did you apply it dry or make a slurry( we have a jon boat with a tank sprayer)? Is there a general rule for how much to add water volume to product? Thanks!

Joe Fisherman #470855 04/30/17 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Joe Fisherman
I dumped 400 lbs of powdered farm lime in a few spots around the pond. Not sure if this will be enough but I figure it will be a good start. I'll check the PH in a week or two and report back any changes.


The first lime you add will do the most good. So even adding a partial amount will be beneficial. Then as you add more and get closer to the ideal amount the additional amounts add decreasing benefit.

At least that is the way it works when we lime fields. For example if a field requires 4000 pounds per acre of a given ECCE, even if a person can get 1000 pounds on that year it is very beneficial. Then the return on investment decreases as you approach the ideal amount for the remaining amount added.

Don't know if that made sense or not, but the point is even if you can only get a partial amount applied to your pond the very first you apply will do the most good.


John

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pondgirl #470856 04/30/17 01:02 PM
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Pondgirl, recommend you use ag lime instead of Sodium Bicarbonate. Take accurate measurements of your pond, including depth at numerous locations so you can get an idea of the volume of water you're dealing with and get back with numbers so the experts on here can make recommendations.






I Was Born Without Gills, Therefore I Fish!
Joe Fisherman #470859 04/30/17 01:11 PM
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We already bought the Sodium Bicarbonate(can't return it) because we had read fish could be sensitive to the Lime and did not want to stress them anymore any harm to be done to go ahead and use it? We can buy Lime and add next...

Joe Fisherman #470860 04/30/17 01:15 PM
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Had the water tested by outside lab after Alum treatment and Ph fall 6 weeks ago:
Turbity 26.4
Alkalinity >10
Phosphorus 63.6
Ph 6.2(its up a little now)

Thanks!

Joe Fisherman #471050 05/02/17 11:06 AM
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Now trying to find liquid lime on the west coast, but no luck.
Does anyone know the type of industry that its is most used, to help narrow down the search? I have only been able to find powdered bagged here, which I am sure is messy and less able to spread evenly...

Joe Fisherman #471051 05/02/17 11:48 AM
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Pondgirl, How big is your pond? Have you calculated the surface acreage and average depth?

One liquid lime product, Calcis, is made by BioSafe specifically for ponds. Five Gallons equals one ton of Ag Lime derived from Calcite Limestone.

It is supplied in 2.5, 5, 30, 55, and 250 gallon containers and weighs almost 16 pounds per gallon and is shipped direct from the manufacturer.

Last edited by LarryHale; 05/02/17 11:59 AM.





I Was Born Without Gills, Therefore I Fish!
Joe Fisherman #471064 05/02/17 03:08 PM
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Thanks, called them waiting for answer back, if it might already be available in Cali.

pondgirl #471080 05/02/17 06:56 PM
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You're welcome,Pondgirl. I was just passing info that Rainman gave me when I was thinking about using liquid lime.






I Was Born Without Gills, Therefore I Fish!
Joe Fisherman #471089 05/02/17 08:43 PM
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Why not use ag lime. Used by lots of farms.
















Joe Fisherman #471093 05/02/17 09:56 PM
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Talked with Tom Warmuth, the guy marketing Calcis for BioSafe. He confirms that 5 gallons of the stuff equals 1 ton of ag lime. Ag lime is cheap, but difficult & expensive to apply. Calcis is expensive, apparently, but relatively cheap & easy to apply. You can even DIY applying calcis, if you don't mind work (heavy stuff).

Tom said that they are working with local outfits such as Windfield Solutions and Lochow. I'll get in touch with Lochow and see exactly how costly it is. My pond still needs some lime remediation with pH around 6.5, alkalinity/hardness in the 40s despite 4 tons ag lime per acre before it filled.

Pondgirl, I don't know if they have distributors in California, but it sounds like BioSafe is pushing nationwide. You might check with Tom about it.

Tom also mentioned that application needs to be pretty even across the entire pond surface to have the best effects. Try to apply during dry spells so it can settle to bottom undisturbed. Apparently Calcis starts working immediately, unlike ag lime. But unlike hydrated lime, tends not to shock fish with too abrupt changes in water chemistry.

Tom pointed out that liming not only helps phytoplankton & plants, it also benefits fish. Better disease protection & superior egg hardiness.

Anyway, I'll check on this and maybe give it a try. Should be interesting...

Last edited by anthropic; 05/02/17 10:10 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




Joe Fisherman #471118 05/03/17 10:31 AM
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I am interested in knowing how 1 ton of ag lime can be concentrated into 5 gals of a liquid. Anyone have any unbiased info on the process/results/testing.
















ewest #471136 05/03/17 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: ewest
I am interested in knowing how 1 ton of ag lime can be concentrated into 5 gals of a liquid. Anyone have any unbiased info on the process/results/testing.


Good point. Somehow, 80 lb of liquid lime equals effectiveness of 2,000 lb of ag lime. Would be interested myself in how they do it, and testimonials from users. Calcis has only been available for one year, according to Tom Warmuth.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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