Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Property Projects & Construction Tractor for maintaining small places

I want to drag some brush and clear out the final 500 feet of overgrown fence line. Move dirt and compost. Move some logs and medium sized rocks. Pull a trailer through my field with rocks, logs, or gravel loaded. Pull my ZTR out of the mud by the pond when needed. I don't have enough to mow to justify a belly mower, with the mowers I already have. I might get a 4 ft brush hog eventually. I have access to a box blade and roller if needed. I don't want to have to buy a bigger trailer if transport is needed. Tractor tires? Industrial or Turf? I might haul stuff in the yard, or roll the yard, so thinking turf.

I would go for the industrial tires, given your list of chores for the tractor. Turf tires CAN be easier on the lawn, but not when they're spinning....and you'll be doing lots of spinning when you head into the gravel pile or compost heap, trying to get a full bucket load with turf tires. If you envision doing lots of loader work, I would opt for a hydro. I love the convenience they offer when using the FEL.

The boomer you spoke of would do what you're asking, but it would be up to you to recognize what it's limitations were. Overtaxing it, or having to "ram" it to compensate for light weight will expose it's weakest link, sooner than later. Use it appropriately, and you will probably love it.

I bought a little Mahindra that has worked well so far.

So many uses.........








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Ditto the industrial tires John. On that size tractor and for the use you will have for it.

Ag tires are made for the specific application of pulling implements through the field and clearing mud when the soil is too wet. From an absolute traction standpoint ag tires will pull more. But they are easily damaged by rocks or other debris if the tires are spun a little. And on that size tractor doing utility work it is inevitable. The industrial tires will add a couple hundred dollars to the cost of the machine but is well worth it. They will last longer, a little better in not getting flats from thorns or punctures, and just overall a lot more rugged tire. In addition, should you ever want to use a mower on nicer ground, the industrial tires are somewhere between turf tires and ag tires in the amount of damage they do to turf. Definitely avoid turf tires. They are useless in anything less than perfect traction conditions.

One other thing John, if you can get a pre-emissions tractor it would be a good thing in my opinion. Not sure how many years you have to go back, but I think about three.

If you look under the hood and there is a big stainless steel muffler looking contraption that has a Diesel line and electronic wires going to it, it has emmissions equipped.

On large farm tractors or over the road trucks these generally do not give lots of problems. But stop and go delivery trucks, utility type tractors that do not see a lot of full load action and other applications where the engine is not running at a good power level I see these as potentially problematic.

Under full load the engine runs pretty efficient and the particulate filter doesn't get plugged often. Under stop and go low temperature partial load applications the filter plugs up more often. Then the emmisions system goes into automatic regen mode where Diesel is injected into the unit, high temperatures are generated, and the particulate filter burns off the residue. This is all controlled by an onboard computer of course. To me it just looks like something to give trouble over time, particularly in a utility type application where 90% of the time the engine is operating under low partial loads.

I just bought our first such unit about a month ago (Versatile 500 tractor with 15L Cummins) so I have not had actual experience. But from what I have heard engines not used at higher load levels tend to give more problems than otherwise. The last two utility tractors I bought new actually were bought a year or two early just so I could avoid the next year model that had the emmision additions.

We have an LS dealer not far away also. Exactly the same tractors as New Holland, I understand. I may look at them also. Snrub, it might be hard to find a pre 2014 near new tractor, but I am going to look for that too. The smaller tractors may not be required to have those emissions controls? Maybe not the 2018 ones either, with the relaxed standards?

My 3038E does not have it, but new year models arriving when I bought it did. This caused me to go ahead and trade in my JD2520 (26hp), which was a great little tractor, before I was really thinking about trading. I had wanted a little larger tractor but in no way "needed" one. But the emmissions caused me to go ahead and trade. That and the fact that the dealer had carry over models he had not sold while new year models were coming in so he gave me what I thought was a very good trade in value.

About the same story on my 5083E but no trade. New models showing up had emmissions and dealer wanted to move inventory. I had wanted "my own" tractor of that size for a while so the emmissions caused me to go ahead and bite the bullet.

We have a number of utility tractors for the farm that have loaders that we use for jobs like mowing road ditches and running large grain augers, etc. But "my" tractor always seemed to be off on some other farm on an auger or mower or doing something so it was never home when I wanted it. So I splurged and bought one that is off limits to the rest of the farm unless it is a dire emergency. No one sets foot in it other than me or sometimes my grandson.

For me, owning these two completely unjustifiable farm purchases is my equivelant of someone owning a bass boat or airplane. They are my toys that I enjoy. Complete wasted money, but well worth it.

I think you will find most if not all new models will be emissions equipped. For a while mfgs got around it by stock piling engines. It was the engine mfg date, not the tractor mfg date that mattered. I do not know for a fact, but as I recall all I saw at farm shows had the filter emmissions equipment. The alternative is DEF, and as far as I know no one uses that method on the smaller engines and it has its own set of issues. We have avoided the DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) engines to date also.

There is a possibility you could find a 3032E JD tractor that is a carryover that is pre emmissions. The 3032E and 3038E tractors are identical except for the engines. The 3032 is slightly larger displacement but non turbo. Only 6 hp less but rest of tractor identical so same weight and will do same work except for maybe mowing heavy grass or some pto work. I don't think you would see any difference in loader work cause you are almost never engine power limited. The 3032 was not as popular tractor because the cost was not that much less than the 3038 so most people opted for the slight more additional cost getting the extra power. The turbo tractor is a little more peppy but from a longivity and repair standpoint the 3032 would probably be the ever so slightly better choice.

I'm talking JD because that is what I am familiar with. There are lots of the other brands that look equally as good (the Korean origin tractors look to be well made). I just am speaking of what I have had experience with. You might be surprised at the pricing. Check with several JD dealers. Call the Pittsburg dealer. Ask for Craig and tell him I sent you. 316-231-0950

I would imagine a near identical conversation took place in the early seventies, with the introduction of electronic ignition in automobiles. Lots of folks buying up last year's models, out of fear of change. I KNOW it happened with the demise of carburetor engines, as I was neck deep involved with it.

There's always that distrust of new technology, that fear of the unknown, the apprehension regarding the genie that lives within the black box with the wires running to it. And in truth, there are often bugs and glitches that must be identified and corrected before everything works like it did in simulation.

But this is where we need to be accurate and honest with ourselves regarding intended usage. Using myself as an example, I haven't had my butt in a tractor seat for 8 weeks or so. Now I'm assuming that should I purchase a new unit, I will probably spend more time on it, at least in the beginning. So let's assume 2 hours a week, for a total of 100+ hours a year. The engine will regen every 50 hours, so there you go. Someone else stated 200 hours a year. There's 4 regen cycles a year.

Is it better to have commercial industrial equipment? It will probably be built heavier, this is true. But do I really need it for 200 hours a year? And what happens when tier 4 is all that's left? Do I just quit buying equipment? It's coming boys, matter of fact it's already here.

I remember pouring cold water over an electronic ignition module in my 1970's Ford PU to cool it down so I could get home. I'll wait till the bugs are worked out. At least the Chrysler "Christmas tree" dashboard on my wife's Jeep can be dimmed with electric tape... I can still work on my son's '66 Newport though. I love technology when it works, but failing sensors are just poor engineering.

And if everyone waits till the bugs are worked out, how will the bugs get worked out? Kind of a self-fulfilling failure?

Maybe it's just the technician in me, but I don't worry about such things. I recognize that some do, but that's okay. If there's unsold inventory, that may mean a better deal for me!

After having the lawn turf tire then having the industrial tire I will never go back to the turf tire ever again. On the farm we have the ag tire too but it will cut into the lawn more even in the summer over the industrial cut tire.

On the NOS on the diesel... at the track guys are putting on a very large turbo on their gas cars that is much too big for the motor. The problem with that is turbo lag. Its hard to launch the car trying to spool the turbo with this lag. What they are doing is hitting the motor on the line with NOS when on the two step. This spools the turbo really fast. Once the turbo makes boost there is a mechanical pressure switch that turns off the NOS. After the boost is up as long as the RPM's stay up because of gearing the rocket is off.

If everyone waits for the bugs to be worked out, then maybe companies will be forced to work the bugs out during development.

Or maybe we would all be touting McCormicks reaper and 50 bushel per acre as the epitome of farm progress. R&D never ever anticipates all....it takes field trials in real world operation to expose limitations.

As my youngest would say "You have WON the Golden Trophy".

Dead on about the USE of equipment and its cause / effect. I have been working with Tier 4 emissions EQ since 2006. I can tell you 100% you are correct on that the issue is actually Load while in use and not as much hours of use. It is hard to get people to understand a new piece of Equipment sitting at Idle for a few hours makes more soot than equipment under a heavy load working all week. I have spent many $$$$$ over the years because someone would leave a piece of equipment idling and not be there to perform the active regeneration.

Congrats on your knowledge.

"And not be there to perform the active regeneration"

And whose fault is that? A warranty covers defects in material and workmanship, NOT improper use by the operator.

When I was in business, that was the hardest point to make people understand. Too many people think that once they open their checkbook for a purchase, the manufacturer is on the hook for everything, including unskilled operators. Not true. Some will make a goodwill adjustment, but that is optional on their part, NOT mandatory.

Are you guys talking about regeneration of diesel particulate filters?

Actually most EQ is in a Passive regeneration under heavier load usage and that will make for less frequent Active regens. I have EQ that will make it the entire year without having to have an Active regen performed (push the switch). Like wise I have EQ that does nothing more than idle most of the time that does not perform a passive regen. The Idling EQ has to have a Active regen performed about every few days (100+ times a year). The DPF catches Soot which is produced more when idling than at any other time of operation. The soot is turned into ash during regen that has to be cleaned on a maintenance cleaning cycle from the DPF. As the ash load increases over time from the burned soot more frequent regens will be required and in my experience more Active regens also. If you EQ is DEF equipped you could possibly (depending on EQ manufacturer) have it programmed to inject more DEF that will also result in less frequent active regeneration. This stuff is not rocket science by no means and has been out for 11 years now in a on highway application. That has allowed for a lot of research and development for the Off the road industry. That is why when the Emission regulations were established the On road was always one tier ahead of the off road EQ.

However in a recreational use I would not see it being near the problem it is / was for me over the years. My issues are not the regen process but all the **** parts / sensors / wiring that make the system work correctly. This complicates my life on having to always keep Equipment running 24/7/365.

Yes that is it

Generally the person that was just fired. LOL

I know all to well of how operations like I am involved in are getting taken care of why the little man is getting the shaft. My problem is all the warranty and policy does not prevent down time.

BTW I have access to so many other people to turn a wrench for little to no cost to me old does not matter on a personal level.

Interesting...

"Health Considerations[edit]
The additional cost burden of DPF filters is primarily passed to consumers with possibly the only benefit being quieter trucks. Any reduction in overall soot by mass, aka diesel particulate matter (DPM), may be negated by the mostly-ignored fact that DPM from DPFs is extremely fine, finer than the DPM that is released from pre-DPF diesel engines.[citation needed] The finer DPM is estimated to have more surface area and penetrate lung tissue more easily than larger particles. No healthy human studies have been performed at diesel exhaust concentrations normally found in an urban or city environment, eliminating other health contributing factors to disease would be insurmountable in such a study.[11]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter

Just to throw in another perspective, my wife and I bought a JD 1025R sub compact tractor last summer. We got the belly mower and front loader attachments (to start). Yes, it's only 24 HP and a hydrostat. But it's been perfect for us. Big enough, but not too big. Has a 3 point hitch and PTO. I also add a 'heavy hitch' (which makes it easy to add counter weights for loader use) and also has 2 in receiver for using trailers and a hitch haul. It's been extremely useful to us, and works well for our small acreage (12 acres). No, it wasn't cheap but we did feel like we received a quality tractor for our money.
As with all things on the forum, it does 'depend'. On your needs vs your budget. But a tractor is definitely a game changing tool for a pond and/or acreage owner. I highly recommend one.

A couple days ago, I stopped by the office in a building here on campus, to ask about the possibility of taking the elevator down for a few minutes to effect a minor repair. The young lady at the desk was positively mortified. "You mean those break down??" was her incredulous response.

Yes. Anything mechanical with one or more moving parts will break down.

Speaking of which, it was getting hot in my office just now (sun beating on windows and pleasant day today) Apparently our 2 elevators in the building went down. They were on same power supply as the roof top a/c units apparently?? They had to take down the a/c to work on elevators. They went down at 2pm and at 3pm everything was up and running. Pretty impressive that a elevator tech could travel, arrive onsite, diagnose and fix the problem in an hour!

A/c is back on and things are cooling down again. Amazing that we don't have a back up plan for elevator failure. We are a medical facility and we have no alternate way to get wheelchair bound people to the second floor. We were scrambling to find lift teams to lift people while in their wheelchair up the flights of stairs and back down again..... Fortunately only one group of passengers was stranded in the elevator when the trouble began...

My Tier 3 to Tier 4 experience is Maintenance cost increased by over 19% & operation productivity decreased by 24%.

BTW reality is Inflation accounted for a few percent of maintenance cost. Most of the operation productivity decline comes due to more down time.