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#464054 - 02/14/17 09:10 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: Floridafish]
Bill D. Online   content


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5374
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Floridafish
....But now that it's running I still have floating weed mats that I guess are duckweed or FA. I read duckweed has a lack of bottom aeration as cause or part of the problem. The weed is on bottom too .Fishing is very difficult and can't see fish even at noon bc of all the weed or FA.

....


I think I see a point I missed. Are you thinking that aeration will eliminate the as yet to be positively identified vegtation? IMO, that will not happen. To quote:

Originally Posted By: esshup
....Control and management for duckweed/watermeal and filamentous algae is different, but the underlying problem that caused it is the same.
(excess nutrients not being utilized by anything else in the pond)


IMO, you need to eliminate the source of the excess nutrients or introduce a more desirable vegetation to utilize them (or if the vegetation is FA you could stock tilapia if they are legal in your state). Otherwise, IMO, your options are keep mechanically removing the unwanted vegetation or periodic herbicide treatments.

At the end of the day it is your pond, your decision and your coins to spend on what you think is the best solution. I have offered all the advice I have so I will drop out of the discussion and wish you success on achieving your goals.

Bill D.


Edited by Bill D. (02/14/17 09:25 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#464057 - 02/14/17 09:40 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Yes I was under the impression if it was duckweed it's a lack of aeration issue. Currently both surface aerators are in shop. The pond had been without any human controlled aeration for at least months but don't know maybe even years.

The FA or weed gets in aerator and stops it and hinders fishing. I sprayed chemplex today again with a winded type spray bottle so if it's FA it should work.

My research states FA and duckweed like still water so I figure circulation aeration and or lack of wake was a cause or bottom lying issue. Fishing is frustrating due to the FA or weed.


Edited by Floridafish (02/14/17 09:42 PM)

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#464095 - 02/15/17 10:25 AM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Any cost or efficiency difference between using an air pump running hose straight to a diffuser as opposed to using air pump to pipe creating a suction or venturi effect to suck water up and drop it creating a fountaim?? The later I believe is air lift. I have watched many youtube videos and one person using a water pump with a hose in the air running to water pump is even titled air lift so it's confusing.


Edited by Floridafish (02/15/17 10:26 AM)

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#464101 - 02/15/17 10:59 AM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12020
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Actually you are talking about three different methods with three different purposes. Pump-airline to diffuser is for mixing deeper, larger volumes of water such as an entire pond 0.2-1acre. Venturi creates strong directional flow that is infused with bubbles for a relatively small distribution area. Air lift is a form of pump-airline- diffuser that creates directional flow as opposed to 360 degree distribution or spread of the airlift bottom diffuser. One has to match the method to the goal of what is needed.

BillD has the problem pretty well analyzed. Pumps and aeration will not solve the "weed" problem which is nutrient based. IMO the most efficient use of money and long term effort is to drain, deepen, and rebuild the nutrient enriched small pond. A pond of 4'-6' maximum depth with clear water is not much more, and can't be expected to be much more than a glorified weedy swamp-wetland unless one creates turbid water or applies a heavy use of algaecides or herbicides.


As mentioned don't expect aeration to control nutrient based plant growth. However the proper weed-algae eating fish could significantly reduce the plant growth and create adequate turbidity that would then reduce future plant growth while continuing to consume most of the recurring plant growth.

PS - Both of your surface aerators are in the shop because it is very hard mechanical work for a motor to constantly lift and throw high into the air water that weighs 40 lbs per 5 gallons. Motor burn out is common and should be expected.

PSS - ""Yes I was under the impression if it was duckweed it's a lack of aeration issue."" This is a wrong philosophy and contrary to the facts that govern natural growth and feature of duckweed. You may not even have duckweed which is another wrong fact.


Edited by Bill Cody (02/15/17 11:14 AM)
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#464105 - 02/15/17 11:13 AM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: Bill Cody]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Actually you are talking about three different methods with three different purposes. Pump-airline to diffuser is for mixing deeper, larger volumes of water such as an entire pond 0.2-1acre. Venturi creates strong directional flow that is infused with bubbles for a relatively small distribution area. Air lift is a form of pump-airline- diffuser that creates directional flow as opposed to 360 degree distribution or spread of the airlift bottom diffuser. One has to match the method to the goal of what is needed.

BillD has the problem pretty well analyzed. Pumps and aeration will not solve the "weed" problem which is nutrient based. IMO the most efficient use of money and long term effort is to drain, deepen, and rebuild the nutrient enriched small pond. A pond of 4'-6' with clear water is not much more, and can't be expected to be much more than a glorified weedy swamp-wetland unless one creates turbid water or applies a heavy use of algaecides or herbicides.


As mentioned don't expect aeration to control nutrient based plant growth. However the proper weed-algae eating fish could significantly reduce the plant growth and create adequate turbidity that would then reduce future plant growth while continuing to consume most of the recurring plant growth.


I wonder if a fish kill caused the abundant of nutrients as there isnt any farms within 1 mile.

I guess part of the confusion with airlift is all the many youtube videos using different methods but all calling them airlift.

Either way an air pump is cheaper than operating a water pump, correct?

on a side note if I used a 12 volt system I could incorporate solar charging possibly in the mix.

Thanks, I'm totally new yo pond management.

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#464107 - 02/15/17 11:15 AM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
I don't see where crystalplex I used yesterday has made any difference.

Will photobucket work here for posting better pictures?

Adding water would make it deeper, it was dry here then we received quite a bit of rain and it was looking better.


Edited by Floridafish (02/15/17 11:24 AM)

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#464109 - 02/15/17 11:22 AM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12020
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
If you have the green growth on the bottom IT IS NOT DUCKWEED. Face it -- your pond has too much shallow water and is likely too nutrient enriched from many years of nutrients and dead plant accumulation. The more that accumulates the more that plants want to grow. Until it is deepened it will cause you constant headache and stress if you don't want it to be a constant Money Pit and DO want it to be weed free fishing. Shallow water demands to grow plants. Natures Way!


Edited by Bill Cody (02/15/17 11:23 AM)
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#464110 - 02/15/17 11:27 AM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12020
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Crystal Plex active ingredient is Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate. It is a buffered form of copper sulfate and results in slower kill of algae. Allow up to 2-5 days to see effects IF you used the correct dosage on an appropriate amount of algae and if you applied it correctly.


Edited by Bill Cody (02/15/17 11:29 AM)
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#464121 - 02/15/17 12:34 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: Floridafish]
Bill D. Online   content


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5374
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Floridafish
.....

Will photobucket work here for posting better pictures?
.....


Yes, a lot of folks, including me, use it. When viewing a pic on photobucket there are 4 share options on the right hand side. Click the last one and it will say "copied." Then when you are posting on the forum, just click ctrl V wherever you want the pic to appear in your post and a link will appear. Once you submit the post the pic will appear in your completed post.
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#464138 - 02/15/17 04:46 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Duckweed watermeal and spikerush

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#464160 - 02/15/17 07:40 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: Floridafish]
Bill D. Online   content


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5374
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Floridafish
Duckweed watermeal and spikerush


Is that the ID from your pond class instructor? If so, first, kudos to you on sticking to yer guns on Duckweed. Second, PLEASE post a clear image of the one previously posted using photobucket so we can all see. smile
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#464164 - 02/15/17 08:14 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Yes that's what I was advised. I'll have to make a photo bucket account again. Received tons of publications.

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#464169 - 02/15/17 09:12 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12020
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Duck weed has three species. It is a tiny 1 to 3 leafed or lobed green plant with a single tiny root hair that drops down from the middle of the 'leafbase'. The whole single plant will be about 1/2 the size of your smallest finger nail. For a pretty good picture and cause see this:
http://www.lakerestoration.com/t-duckweed-control.aspx

If you have duckweed this is another good sign the pond needs to be dredged and deepened. The pond is telling you it is going toward swamp conditions. It only grows in very nutrient over enriched calm water bodies. Where I live, I see it most often in drainage ditches that receive septic waste as the nutrient source. It is characteristic of very old ponds that have become nutrient over enriched from annual deposits of nutrients and organic materials.


Edited by Bill Cody (02/15/17 09:16 PM)
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#464171 - 02/15/17 09:23 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida








Edited by Floridafish (02/15/17 09:29 PM)

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#464172 - 02/15/17 09:39 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: Floridafish]
Bill D. Online   content


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5374
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Floridafish
Pile aftrr removed


Much better pics! Can you post a clearer image of this one?
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#464173 - 02/15/17 09:46 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Last year


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#464174 - 02/15/17 10:07 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
same pics but forum made me keep cropping them before I could posr.

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#464177 - 02/15/17 11:12 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida

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#464184 - 02/16/17 07:03 AM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6943
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Much better. I see what could be DW or WM along with a great deal of something (s) else. What you have removed in the photos is neither DW nor WM.
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"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#464212 - 02/16/17 01:25 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Spikerush is the other.

http://aquaplant.tamu.edu/plant-identification/alphabetical-index/spike-rush/

I also had water sample and had it tested.


Edited by Floridafish (02/16/17 01:29 PM)

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#464236 - 02/16/17 08:10 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida


First one within 5 minutes, one got away and still caught 5 fairly quick.

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#464247 - 02/16/17 11:04 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
The class was very informational. They said abundance of nutrients is cause and recommended chemicals and carp.

Fish stocking was a big portion of the class and I'd say the majority had weed issues.

I asked about stocking fhm and they were against it and weren't a big fan of using dye.

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#464260 - 02/17/17 11:06 AM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12020
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Dye can work in the correct conditions especially when the pond is shallow and there is no outflow to constantly dilute dye. Strongly consider the grass carp. Add them gradually over the next 5-7 years. Don't initially put in enough to denude the pond. You WANT and NEED some plants as habitat and to compete against FA and too much phytoplankton which can cause new problems. If your pond is circular and 100ft diameter that calculates 7800sqft 0.18ac. Start with 2-3 grass carp and see what they do after 2 yrs. Then with tilapia weeds are abundant add 1 carp. One grass carp in FL can eat 1.5-2 pickup truck loads of weeds per year. Replace them after they get to be 8-9 yrs old. They are very good to eat. Nice mild white flaky meat.


Consider with the grass carp, tilapia who eat FA and reproduce to provide bass food and people food. Tilapia are very good dinner guests and IMP better than bass.


Edited by Bill Cody (02/17/17 11:15 AM)
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#464291 - 02/17/17 04:19 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
RER Offline


Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 1870
Loc: N FL
where in FL is your pond?
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#464303 - 02/17/17 07:27 PM Re: Soaker Hose [Re: kristoffer1277]
Floridafish Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Near Tallahassee

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