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#461572 - 01/06/17 04:29 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: John F]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3945
Loc: SE Kansas
With the growth rates of your CC I can imagine. Any idea on a # per acre basis?

I was not going to feed fish at all. My fish supplier told me even if I only fed a modest amount it would really increase the BG rate of growth. About then I discovered PBF and got more interested. First year I fed modest amounts. Second year with bigger, hungry fish I got up to around the 4 to 5# per acre amount. Then I started getting worried about water quality and FA more and this last year was more around 3# per acre. I think I am good with that level for the time being. I'm not particularly after trophies and we are at the point we already have way more fish than we can eat.

So for me it is just more of a pleasurable activity rather than a goal of a huge fish or many pounds of total fish. I like lots of nice size fish that are fun for family and friends to catch.
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#461573 - 01/06/17 05:01 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
John F Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1207
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
It would work out to about 10-12 pounds per acre per day. I was feeding about 70 catfish, and however many BG that would try to compete with them. I mixed about four parts Optimal BG to five parts 32% catfish pellets for most of the growing season. I will need to dress out a bunch of CC before summer. I plan to feed about two to three weeks in the spring to fatten them up, then start catching more of them out. Hopefully, catch about forty or more. About fourteen are albinos, going to keep feeding those all summer.

Likely I didn't have water quality problems last summer because of the leak of about 5/8 inch per day, and all the rain and pumping to keep the pond to a near constant level within 12 inches or less of full and 1/4 acre in area. After the pond dropped a lot, the water was already getting cool into fall, and feeding was being cut back.
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#461575 - 01/06/17 07:32 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
Bill D. Online   content


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5181
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Looks like there are actually several what are considered "higher quality" fish chow brands on the market. How big a factor is the shape of the pellet when selecting a chow to feed your pond? My experience is my small 2 inch BG can eat a much larger pellet (in my case Optimal BG Jr), by mass, that is a small diameter and cylindrical than they can a round pellet (in my case Sportman's Choice) of equal diameter. I am amazed at how long a cylindrical pellet they can eat if they can get the end in their mouths. Is one shape more tantalizing to the fish? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to feeding a fish one long skinny pellet instead of 2 or 3 round ones? Is there any science involved in the shape or is it all ease of manufacture for that particular mill?


Edited by Bill D. (01/06/17 08:59 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#461583 - 01/07/17 06:49 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
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Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I believe if you will hydrate the pellets, the fish of just about all sizes can handle them better. Of course, you can't do that with a feeder.
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#461585 - 01/07/17 07:53 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Bill D.]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3945
Loc: SE Kansas
Bill D I cant answer your question but the main advantage for smaller fish when there are larger fish around is that with the pellets small enough to fit in their mouth they actually get some before the larger fish clean it up.

After originally stocking my fish all the feed I knew about or was availavle locally was catfish pellets. Way too big for my fish but they would work at the pellets till they softened up and eventually get them eaten. Now with the large fish that have grown up competing with any small fish, the small ones don't stand a chance. I can see them hit the hard pellet then watch a larger fish gobble it up. Which goes along with what Dave says. Once the pellets are hydrated the small fish can get away with a mouth full before the pellet disappears into a big fish mouth.

With feed that has multiple pellet sizes, the larger fish will target the larger pellets as long as there are any. Then turn their attention to any remaining small pellets.

The AM 400 I have fed I would throw very close to the bank where the small BG hang out, as I threw the regular feed out in deep water. I normally feed moving along the bank. If I would stop in one spot to feed and observe for a while, the CC would go after the big pellets but if I fed enough of the tiny 400 they eventually would be right up there in shallow water cleaning up what the 3" BG had not got to. Funny seeing 2# CC hoovering up all the BB size pellets they could try to capture in their mouths at once. The CC loved that AM400.

I would think fusiform feed pellets should have the same effect as fusiform forage fish ie the targeted fish could eat a larger pellet. But that is just in my minds eye, no research at all.


Edited by snrub (01/07/17 07:56 AM)
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#463545 - 02/09/17 12:31 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: snrub]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 23625
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I think if a person wanted to dive into feeding fish, a whole book could be written on it, and by the time they are finished writing the book, it would have to be changed because of the new things that are being developed or discovered.

Cliff notes:
Small fish need a different protein/fat/supplement additive than adult fish.

There is a huge difference between supplementally feeding fish and using enough food that the fish food is the majority or all of their diet.

Different species of fish have different nutritional requirements.

Here is a picture of Hybrid Bluegills. I did a test 2 years ago. Same number of HBG in 3 different cages. All fish came from the same supplier, and were of the same random size when placed in the cages at the start of the test. Each cage was fed the same amount of food, at the same time of day, for the same amount of time. This test was a 90 day test. This test is the reason why I switched to Optimal.


The write up of the test can be read here: http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=423360#Post423360

Plus here are a few things that I learned and observed in the past 2 years since switching to Optimal:

Ponds have less problems with FA. (I am guessing that more of the food is being utilized/absorbed by the fish and less is getting pooped out as fertilizer for FA/Plants.)

Fish survive stress better. (I observed a summer fish kill at a hatchery where they were doing a fish food test with fish in cages. The cages where the fish were being fed Optimal had approximately 80%-90% LESS dead fish in them than all the other cages, and IIRC they were testing 3 or 4 different mfg. foods in addition to Optimal.)

Fish fed Optimal seem to have more vibrant colors.

Redear Sunfish eat Optimal Bluegill food and I have also been told that Crappie have been caught in one pond with Optimal Bluegill food in their stomachs.

Another forum member here who has done a lot of fish feeding noticed that to get equal growth rates of sunfish he had to feed 60# of Aquamax vs. 40# of Optimal Bluegill food.

I am probably forgetting some things, but that has been my observations.
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#464045 - 02/14/17 07:34 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: TGW1]
farmallsc Online   content


Registered: 02/09/17
Posts: 313
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: TGW1
Thank you ewest and you too Bill Cody. That's a lot of good information. Its cold here in E Texas today and we may see a little snow, so I am hanging in today and with little to do, so I will ask and tell my experience with fish food for my pond. First, I have not seen Cargill Triton 4512 mentioned here as another option when it comes to feeding my cnbg fhm, and hsb. Twenty six months ago I was introduced to the 4512 by Todd Overton @ Overtons Fisheries. I have tried two other brands, 4 bags of Purina(free from my seed and feed guy) and one bag of Optimal from a friend I made here. We did a trade when he felt like he needed a smaller sized product at the time and the 1/8" Cargill fit his need. My fish did not take to the Purina and I saw a lot of it floating around with little to no interest from the fish. And that was weird because my cnbg would tear the water up when feeding on the Cargill. The Optimal, my fish took right to it and left nothing floating around, same as the Cargill feed. So, I continued some looking around and have yet to find a reason to change feed. The Triton is 45% protein with 15% fat. And based on the growth rates ewest posted here, it seems to me the Cargill feed is at or near the top percentile when growing fish. A while back, I looked to see if Cargill was using fish meal and I did not find an answer. I did find where the company was trying to get away from fish meal because it was a dwindling natural resource, but today the 4512 fish food I get still has that fish smell when the feeders go off. I am not sure if it is meal or fish oil that gives off that fishy smell. Fish meal is not listed on the bag as an ingredient. I will also speak of the prices from Overtons/Cargill. I believe the price for 50 sks (Pallet or pallets) delivered is around $43.00 per 50 lb sk, which included the transportation. My last order was two pallets and so the cost may have changed since then, it was several months back. I can also say I have used the 1/8" and the 3/16" and the 1/4" sizes. I found what I believe was a problem with the 3/16" and that was choking and killing some of my 3 to 4" sized cnbg. I saw that happen at the time I was feeding. I was losing 4 to 6 cnbg in that size range and it took me several days to figure out what was killing these sized fish. I will continue to use the Cargill from Overtons unless I can find a reason to change. And my cnbg are getting big, I caught the largest bg I have ever caught in my life the other day I think it was close to 10 to 11" and this was most likely from my original stocking 26 months ago. I still have questions about the fish meal or where the high protein, amino acid and fat content comes from?



Tracy,
That's what I'm feeding. I can't see it float though.
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1/2 to 7/8 acre stocked 2-11-17 with FHM, OTS CNBG, RES, and CC. With pre-existing GSF.

Please put me on the cover of Honey Hole Magizine



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#464080 - 02/15/17 08:07 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1766
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Farmall, I am no fish food expert, but my Cargills floats, always has. Are u feeding the Triton 4512?
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#464085 - 02/15/17 08:42 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 12910
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Farmall, use caution when you see protein amounts that aren't explained. Chicken feathers are high protein but indigestible by fish. And, I'm aware of a feed that is produced in North Texas that is just too cheap. I suspect feathers but they declined to tell me what it contains.

I expect Cargill is OK but I've never used it.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#464086 - 02/15/17 09:07 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: TGW1]
farmallsc Online   content


Registered: 02/09/17
Posts: 313
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: TGW1
Farmall, I am no fish food expert, but my Cargills floats, always has. Are u feeding the Triton 4512?


Tracy,

My apologies. You are absolutely correct. Mine does float. I put some in a glass of water and it's been floating for several minutes now . It's getting close to dark when I feed, so it just looks like it disappears in the water.



Attachments
IMG_3913.JPG (93 downloads)



Edited by farmallsc (02/15/17 09:08 AM)
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1/2 to 7/8 acre stocked 2-11-17 with FHM, OTS CNBG, RES, and CC. With pre-existing GSF.

Please put me on the cover of Honey Hole Magizine



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#464087 - 02/15/17 09:13 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dave Davidson1]
farmallsc Online   content


Registered: 02/09/17
Posts: 313
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Farmall, use caution when you see protein amounts that aren't explained. Chicken feathers are high protein but indigestible by fish. And, I'm aware of a feed that is produced in North Texas that is just too cheap. I suspect feathers but they declined to tell me what it contains.

I expect Cargill is OK but I've never used it.



Thanks Dave. I'll have to look on the tag to see what's in it. Me and the wife are used to checking the labels for our dogs, but it never occurred to me to check the fish food. It makes sense though. I'm sure it's good food though.
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1/2 to 7/8 acre stocked 2-11-17 with FHM, OTS CNBG, RES, and CC. With pre-existing GSF.

Please put me on the cover of Honey Hole Magizine



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#464096 - 02/15/17 10:35 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
Flame Offline


Registered: 09/12/14
Posts: 745
Loc: Deep East Texas
farmallsc, I like Tracy have used Cargill from day one and all fish are growing great! I mix 1/8 and 3/16 size together and have never had a problem. I will note: When I did use the 1/4 inch size in my TH feeder it did not distribute near as well. I know you can adjust the feeder but I chose not to. Don't get me wrong... the fish loved the 1/4 food also and it all floats well but I only feed my fish the 1/8 and 3/16th size and am very pleased with the results. Am using the 4512 also. Just my opinion. That is the feed Overton's use and they are my fish supplier and have had tremendous success with my fish!
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#464100 - 02/15/17 10:54 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Flame]
farmallsc Online   content


Registered: 02/09/17
Posts: 313
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: Flame
farmallsc, I like Tracy have used Cargill from day one and all fish are growing great! I mix 1/8 and 3/16 size together and have never had a problem. I will note: When I did use the 1/4 inch size in my TH feeder it did not distribute near as well. I know you can adjust the feeder but I chose not to. Don't get me wrong... the fish loved the 1/4 food also and it all floats well but I only feed my fish the 1/8 and 3/16th size and am very pleased with the results. Am using the 4512 also. Just my opinion. That is the feed Overton's use and they are my fish supplier and have had tremendous success with my fish!


That's great to hear. I bought my fish and food from Overton's too. I'm very pleased with my purchase. Todd and his staff have been a huge help to me.
_________________________
1/2 to 7/8 acre stocked 2-11-17 with FHM, OTS CNBG, RES, and CC. With pre-existing GSF.

Please put me on the cover of Honey Hole Magizine



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#472359 - 05/20/17 02:23 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
Matzilla Offline


Registered: 08/12/16
Posts: 99
Loc: Iowa
I picked up a bag today to start hand feeding at my pond. I figured feeding cheap locally available spc has to be better than not feeding at all.

The only other locally available feed is Kent general purpose fish food at 32% protein


Edited by Matzilla (05/20/17 02:25 PM)

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#472368 - 05/20/17 05:35 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Matzilla]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 3945
Loc: SE Kansas
I end up feeding it early in the season when Purena is not available yet and if I run out of better feed. I think it is not bad feed. My fish like it.

The first year I fed nothing but 32% floating and sinking catfish food because that is all I knew and all that was readily available without ordering it. My fish grew great.

32% catfish food is far better than no supplemental food at all, in my opinion. SC Trophy is 36% so better yet.

As far as filling up the pond because of more waste, stop and think how many bags of fish food at 100% inefficiency it would take to fill the pond up. It would take me at least a hundred years or more at the rate I feed, even if the fish ate and converted none of it. Imagine throwing out feed daily for the feeding season in a dry one acre pond without water and imagine how long it would take to cover the acre a foot deep (a foot of muck). That is at 100% INefficiency. Anybody good at math? It would take more than a few days........or years.


Edited by snrub (05/20/17 05:52 PM)
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#472372 - 05/20/17 07:13 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Matzilla]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 23625
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Matzilla
I picked up a bag today to start hand feeding at my pond. I figured feeding cheap locally available spc has to be better than not feeding at all.

The only other locally available feed is Kent general purpose fish food at 32% protein


Optimal is available locally - it gets delivered right to your door. laugh wink

Sure it costs more per pound or per bag than the less expensive food. But, I'll bet if you do a feed test to see how many pounds of each is needed to grow the same amount of fish to the same size, over a "X" month period, you probably will find that you are spending more in the long run for the less expensive food because you have to feed so much more of it compared to Optimal.

I've also saved $$ by using Optimal because I'm seeing less FA problems in the pond, so I'm spending less $$ and time treating FA.
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#474382 - 06/18/17 09:19 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
Dinsmoreoutdoors Offline


Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 164
Loc: Hilliard, FL
UPDATE: I have been feeding my CNBG since I put them in Dec as 2-3" finglering and have been feeding them the Sportsmans choice trophy feed every morning at 0730 once a day. they are now 4-5" and are about wide as they are long, they have turned into lil butter balls on the 36% protein feed. I would like to use Auqa max but no one in my area sales it, and it is pricey when u add shipping. So around here the Sportsmans choice is my best bet, because its ether that or the local feed store generic catfish food. So far im happy with the results im seeing, wish it had a lil more protein for when I get my feed trained bass soon.

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#474387 - 06/18/17 10:22 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 23625
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Oh the potential that is left on the table (or in the pond)! Here's 90 day of growth, Sportsmans Choice on the top, Optimal Bluegill food on the bottom. Hybrid Bluegills

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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#474390 - 06/18/17 10:35 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
John F Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1207
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
In my new pond, I have been throwing out Sportsman's Choice for the young CC, and Optimal BG Jr for the young HBG and RES. The young CC seem to eat the Sportsman's Choice much better than regular floating food because it sinks within about 5-10 minutes and they are surface feed shy. The HBG quickly eat the couple handfuls of BG Jr. I only stocked about 20 HBG.


Edited by John F (06/18/17 10:37 AM)
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#474404 - 06/18/17 05:19 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: esshup]
Bill D. Online   content


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5181
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: esshup
Oh the potential that is left on the table (or in the pond)! Here's 90 day of growth, Sportsmans Choice on the top, Optimal Bluegill food on the bottom. Hybrid Bluegills



What's in the middle?
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#474446 - 06/19/17 11:12 AM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18682
Loc: Miss.
I think it only fair to the PB readers that if someone wants to post growth results on different competing foods that all the info/facts /peer reviewed results be included.


Edited by ewest (06/19/17 11:13 AM)
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#474450 - 06/19/17 12:18 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: ewest]
Dinsmoreoutdoors Offline


Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 164
Loc: Hilliard, FL
Originally Posted By: ewest
I think it only fair to the PB readers that if someone wants to post growth results on different competing foods that all the info/facts /peer reviewed results be included.


Agreed

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#474451 - 06/19/17 12:47 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: Dinsmoreoutdoors]
cb100 Offline


Registered: 12/19/14
Posts: 76
Loc: lake co calif
Does anyone know where I can get optimal in California or how I can find a distributor

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#474452 - 06/19/17 12:54 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: cb100]
CMM Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 529
Loc: West Central MO
Originally Posted By: cb100
Does anyone know where I can get optimal in California or how I can find a distributor


You can go to Optimal's website and order. I get mine delivered as needed.
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#474456 - 06/19/17 01:23 PM Re: Sportsman's Choice TrophyFish Feed [Re: ewest]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4012
Loc: Arkansas
Originally Posted By: ewest
I think it only fair to the PB readers that if someone wants to post growth results on different competing foods that all the info/facts /peer reviewed results be included.


So what your telling us is that Optimal doubled this fishes size v.s. SPC..... in 90 days? Forgive me but I have a hard time believing that there is that much of a difference.... between them 2 foods.. I'm still a AM guy myself but that is almost one of those it's to good to be true kind of things... Not saying it's not just saying WOW!! That's a hugh difference...

RC
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