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#463985 02/14/17 10:24 AM
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I might need some guidance here. Largest CNBG are now 2.5 yrs old and those fish seem to be in the 9" range and feed daily with TH feeders. If I understand it correctly, do not harvest bg for the most part when lmb forage is the goal. But there are fewer bg in the 9" size and lots and lots in the 6 to 7" size. So will the bg hold off spawning till they reach the larger size? Am I better off catching and eating those 9" cnbg and then causing the 6 and 7" bg to spawn? Or will all those large and mid sized bg spawn, no matter their size? I have harvested 10 cnbg. But I have had things like cormorants, eagles and river otters harvest some of these fish. So I am thinking c/r them for fun and for lmb forage. What do you think about this picture?

Last edited by TGW1; 02/14/17 10:25 AM.

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Tracy, our situation is almost exactly the same as yours. In my opinion my 9-10 inch cnbg will always be released thinking they are my best shot of a "trophy" bg. I would love to have bragging rights to at least a 12 inch cnbg before they get too old and die. I think our original stockers had the best chance for fast growth with no predation when they were younger. I plan on eating my first bg this spring or summer. I have gobs of 8 inch cnbg and those are the ones I will select to eat. There are many,many more in the 6-7 inch range to take there place. Can't remember how many lmb you have but I believe yours are a lot larger than mine and I only have 50 lmb. You should have a good spawn and will have many more lmb mouths to feed in the near future. Just something to keep in mind. Just my opinion. Oh, several months ago...I was catching res already over 9 inches. Have not caught any since but can't wait to target them after the spawn to see how they have grown!! I saw a lmb cruising at the feeder this morning that had to be the closest one to 14 inch I have seen or caught yet.


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IMO you need to be harvesting the 5-7" fish and releasing anything above that. They can spawn at 3", so you have plenty for spawning.


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Flame we are similar for sure. I am now thinking I might need to harvest the large ones to stimulate the mid sized ones to spawn. If I understand it correctly, and I may not, the mid sized bulls will not spawn till they reach the size of the larger bulls. If that the case then it may be necessary for me to harvest the larger bulls so I might get more bg reproducing. And with some of my lmb up to 17.5" and over 4lbs, and looking at mouth gape, I need a lot of 4 to 5" maybe 6" cnbg forage. I am not sure where to take this, but if the lmb growth continues I will need some larger cnbg in the next couple of years, and so do I keep the large cnbg? HELP, guidance needed, lol


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Originally Posted By: BrianL
IMO you need to be harvesting the 5-7" fish and releasing anything above that. They can spawn at 3", so you have plenty for spawning.
Thanks Brian, but some of the Texas Legacy lmb are eating 5" and maybe 6" cnbg now, and I don't want to remove that size because that is what grows these lmb now.

Last edited by TGW1; 02/14/17 11:27 AM.

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I look at it like this. I have "X" pounds/ac of CNBG in the pond and that weight won't change without adding more energy. How that poundage in split up is up to me(in a perfect world). Pounds of fish less than 4" will be too hard to control, so those have to be controlled by the LMB and considered a constant. SO do I want more 4" 5" 6".....12". Total weight should stay the same.

1- 12" (1.6oz. Standard Weight)CNBG equals

2- 10"(.88oz) CNBG

4- 8"(.42oz)

10- 6"(.16oz)

40- 4"(.04oz)

SO in my line of thinking, I can have ten 6" fish or one 12".


Not sure if any of this is correct grin , but it is what i have gathered from reading here and everywhere I can find info on the subject. Nothing suggested here says there will be a linear relationship, as every size will rush to fill the void. It is always a moving target, and always evolving environment. Fish at the top can't get bigger if you harvest those.

But again, I could be wrong on all of it laugh

Last edited by BrianL; 02/14/17 01:13 PM.

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A few facts. While small BG can spawn , especially in a new pond , they do not produce as many offspring (eggs or male protection success) as large BG. BG colonies are arranged so that the biggest/best males are at the center of the colony. There they get the most female eggs deposited , have the best defense mechanism (several layers of beds outside of them which have more predation) and have the best survival ratio. The smaller (6-7 inch BG) in a normal pond are located on the outside of the colony. Under 5 inch males may not spawn at all as the larger males preclude this by competition.

I would not harvest my dominate male BG or largest/oldest females. Harvest smaller males and females. Do other things to increase fry BG survival like xmas tree cover near the beds. Increase energy available for growth (feeding) and most importantly harvest LMB so that BG size structure is not misaligned. Very few LMB can eat a 10 in BG. A 22 inch LMB is going to target 6-7 inch BG or smaller.

Last edited by ewest; 02/14/17 04:05 PM.















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If the growth of the bass drop off supplement their forage base instead of trying to down step the bluegill size hierarchy. You want those bluegills to wait to spawn as long as possible so they can grow fast quickly and possibly reach a larger overall size. Bass can find plenty to eat other than your 5-6" bg - or stock more 5-6" bg


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Thanks ewest and Brian. I understood in a lmb bg forage pond was to basically feed the bg and then leave the bg alone and let them feed the lmb. But recently I thought I read or understood I would get more bg fry if I removed the largest bg and the smaller bg (larger numbers) would spawn and produce more fry due to higher numbers of them. So, Thank you for leading me back to the original management plan.


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Everything I read says manage for big BG or big LMB. To get one big the other seems to go the opposite way. I'm not sure what a middle of the road plan will produce. I still haven't made up my mind which way I want to manage mine yet. I like big bass, but catching big bluegill is funner than I thought it would be.


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If you can't decide which goal to have of trophy BG or trophy bass build two ponds and manage them differently. When trying to do both in the same pond usually neither one seems to achieve their full potential; each can be Big yes, but both not trophy category together. Nothing is wrong with Big BG&bass for most everyone.

I am currently thinking that the smaller the pond, the harder it is to produce both Big BG and Big Bass together. Larger ponds can provide more diverse habitat and living space than small 0.2 to 1 ac ponds. Thus it can be be somewhat easier to produce Big sizes of multi-species when grown together in larger waters. This is why it is often suggested to not use LMB in ponds <1acre.

Note: In my strong opinion, one can commonly create general angling excitement in smaller ponds by raising both BG & LMB. Specializing the management methods for small ponds, can result in growing larger and often Big fish in small ponds. However, It takes extra effort and it won't happen by just stocking fish.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/16/17 10:37 AM.

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In neither case (Big BG or Big LMB)would I remove my biggest male and female BG. Those BG are the ones who will reproduce the most BG fry and see them to swim up stage. In a big BG pond I would remove more medium sized BG while in a big LMB pond I would not remove many BG at all. If I wanted big LMB then remove lots of smaller LMB if you want big BG don't remove to many small LMB. I agree with Bill on the pond size matters he discussed.
















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Thanks guys, I will continue ahead with my plans to grow my lmb. It's nice to have you guys around, keeps me from taking a wrong turn on my path toward some trophy's. I will have to say that when the feeder goes off and I see some of those cnbg, some of them look like the size of a dinner plate.


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I'm with ewest. In a 2.5 year old pond the largest BG very well could be the "shooters" in the orig stocking. If you are managing for large LMB, then you want as much forage in there as possible and not a lot of LMB.

Remember LMB prefer to eat BG 1/3 to 1/4 their length, so what length are the LMB in the pond now? What are their relative weights?


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esshup, thanks for the comments and advice. So, far I have caught and landed 3 lmb since last March. I don't fish for them as I don't want to make them lure shy until they get in the larger sizes, so I will sample one by catching one and then I stop fishing for them. I have caught two in the last 45 days. One 14.5 " looked male as there was no bulge or egg sack look to the fish. The Wr was 161 if I remember correctly. Fish looked really healthy and it had that U shape that has been described as the Lonestar Legacy(Camalot Bell) lmb. These lmb came from Overton's fishery. I caught a second one last week that was full of eggs and was 17.5" and I did not weigh it for Wr due to heavy egg sack looking fish but I would guess this fish was real close to 5 lbs and I don't believe I am over guessing the weight by much at all. I had a few last year close real close to 3 lbs last year. This pond has less than 25 lmb per acre (most likely) and maybe less than that. It also is a heavy forage pond with TFS,cnbg, res,and maybe some gsh and seasonally Tp, and crawfish. I watch the 3 TH feeders and will see some pretty good sized lmb feeding on the cnbg at feeding times. LMB look to be in that 17" size range. These lmb are two yrs old this April or May.

PS, Todd told me I would see some 5 lb lmb in the pond at two yrs old, he knows these fish for sure.

Last edited by TGW1; 02/22/17 09:05 AM.

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That is great news. Yes, Todd has a handle on the fish.

To weigh the fish without stressing them (or yourself) get a few of those bags that they bring fish to the weigh-in at the tournaments. Put the fish in the bag without water, weigh, and return to the water. Deduct the weight of the bag from the fish weight.

A friend of mine has a net with a scale built into the handle, but it is no longer accurate. You can also cut down the handle on a rubberized net, and record the weight of the net, writing it on the handle. Get the scale ready, net the fish and immediately weigh it. Remove hook, return to water.

He has a trophy LMB pond where the LMB are over 10 pounds. His rule is to have the fish out of the water no longer than 30 seconds, never allow it to flop around on the bottom of the boat or on shore, and never to only pick it up with one hand in the mouth.

Last edited by esshup; 02/25/17 11:52 AM.

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Great tip esshup, I will get that weight system set up. I am guessing he does not measure his fish any more? I have a measuring board but I have to lay the fish down, any suggestions there?


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