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#463380 - 02/07/17 01:01 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
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#463388 - 02/07/17 02:10 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
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Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
Tony, I'm still mad at Scott for saying I can't wear my flip flops. The nerve of some people.


Let me rephrase that. You CAN wear them, but you shouldn't. Not unless you can dance really, really well........
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#463391 - 02/07/17 02:14 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
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Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
I'm looking at installing new shop lights, because I need something brighter than florescents. LEDs, or is there a better option?


LED's are the way to go.

If you want, I have a light meter I can send down so you can measure LUX and see comparisons......
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#463421 - 02/07/17 07:29 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
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Isn't LUX a hotel in Las Vegas?

Scott, the electric CoOp replaced our floodlights with LED's last year, and the difference is incredible. I just didn't know if there anything cheaper to run, and brighter. Thanks.
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#463531 - 02/09/17 11:06 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
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More expensive at first to purchase, MUCH cheaper to run (maybe 80%?), and the "bulb" life is many, many times greater. They are tailoring the diodes to produce different wavelengths of white light now too. Just like regular bulbs. i.e. cool white, daylight, etc.
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#463533 - 02/09/17 11:14 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: esshup]
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Registered: 10/05/13
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Everything we have switched over to LED so far no dissapointments.

We have metal halide in our shop, and my understanding is they now have LED replacement bulb assemblies that will fit right into our sockets. As we replace the Halides, my intention is to go to LED.
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#463541 - 02/09/17 11:57 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: snrub]
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I believe they are making replacement LED fluorescent bulbs too. Remove ballast, re-wire ends and use the LED bulbs. No need to replace the fixture.
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#463549 - 02/09/17 12:42 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1537
Loc: West Michigan
I had a set of parking lot lights, mounted on a bullhorn with 2 high pressure sodium (HPS) lights with color corrected bulbs to bring to a cool white color. This color was ideal for winter time lighting of the pond for ice skating rather than the sick yellow color of HPS. I had one fixture (or bulb?) go bad and it costs a bit to rent a lift to go up there and check it out.

I decided to not risk replacing a bulb and find out ballast was bad etc, so I prepared to retrofit to LED fixtures. The LED fixtures are cheaper all the time, have better waterproofing in the housing and glass than my current old HPS ones and the obvious savings with running cost. The HPS have a big current draw at startup and I have a long electrical run from my house to the pond. You can't cycle them on/off quickly.

The LEDs are much nicer for snapping on and turning off to take a quick peak what is happening down there with ice conditions, snow, etc.

I upgraded from 400w HPS to 500W LED and am very happy with the result. The spread of light from LED is 180 degrees wide so you lose the directional nature of the HPS. I would say the LEDs can't 'throw the light' as far or it seems that you lose ability to saturate with light intensity as you get out at distance, but for the cost it was worth it.

I had to modify a bracket to slip over the bullhorn and to fasten to the LED light housing but I highly recommend looking into it. The fixtures come in a variety of Watts and I went with the blue/white light (cold) but you can get a warm yellow flood light if you prefer.

The older fixtures have 2-4 very large single emitting LEDs, either 50W x 2 or 50x4 or even 100W single emitting LED panel x2 or 100w x4.

New fixtures have SMD or multiple small led emitters all lined up in a panel. I tried both kinds and the SMD are definitely the way to go.

Ebay has a few US sellers (I bought from NJ seller) making it easier to correspond and do returns if needed, they are all chinese made though.

If figure with better weather seal and life expectancy at about 50,000 hours I hope to never have to rent that lift and try to position it in the woods and safely go up and down in the dark to install and position those lights again.

At their current price point, you get a whole new fixture for the price of a replacement bulb for those factory metal halide or HPS fixtures. If you had a girder structure for easy mounting you could easily just swap out to new fixtures rather than retrofit existing fixtures with LED bulbs. My lights came in 110V but I believe their transformers handle 110-220V

They make motion activated fixtures too and pricing is getting ridiculously cheap. I see if you buy 10 each of the 100W motion activated fixtures they are $17.99 each!

One option for LED fixtures

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#463707 - 02/11/17 08:08 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3516
Loc: Emory TX
Thanks for all the info guys!! I'll go with LED.

My wonderful wife of 31 years bought me a new welding helmet for Valentine's Day. I'm sure she'll be very proud of herself when she finds out she did it.
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#463711 - 02/11/17 08:46 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
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Bless her heart!
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"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#463780 - 02/12/17 08:30 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
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Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1929
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Did she buy the one with flames or Lightning Bolts? smile
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Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

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#463783 - 02/12/17 08:55 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3516
Loc: Emory TX
Tracy, I did shake the box last night, and it sounded like it was matte black. I think she went with an Optrel 2.5, but of course I have no way of knowing.
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#463791 - 02/12/17 10:27 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: esshup]
DonoBBD Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 1761
Loc: Ontario, Canada, Eh.
Originally Posted By: esshup
I believe they are making replacement LED fluorescent bulbs too. Remove ballast, re-wire ends and use the LED bulbs. No need to replace the fixture.


I am the technical director for an LED company in Ontario. Anyone need any advice on LED lighting feel free to drop me a PM.

Direct fluorescent bulb replacement to LED is still not worth it. The reason behind that is that the tube is measured by the following. T12 bulb is "T" stands for tube, and 12 stands for 12, 8ths of an inch in diameter. 12/8th is 1.5" in diameter. LEDs need to be placed on a flat surface PCB board. The only area allowed in the tube replacement is the length and diameter of the bulb. This area will not give enough space to mount enough LED's even in the high power 5050 LED to give the light fluorescent can. If you try to over clock the LED you can get enough room for aluminum heat transfer blocks to keep the LED alive for any sort of time.

We have found still to this day with the highest power 135Lm per watt we can't make the same light in the same space.

The very new and most impressive LED right now is the filament LED. Most amount of light produced from a 360 degree bulb yet and with the new tech created from the butt of a firefly the light output will be in the range of 200Lm per watt. Now 200Lm-300Lm per watt there will not be any other light in the world than LED. It will be the most efficient with heat and light output.

We have a 60watt light that is a replacement for the 400MH high-bay lights and I personally have been using them in my shop for 5 years with no problems.

Cheers Don.

EDIT: best colour temp for the human eye is 5700K, called Natural White. Any more than that you can damage the rods in your eye when looking at the light. Any less the colour perceived is incorrect.


Edited by DonoBBD (02/12/17 10:35 AM)
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#463806 - 02/12/17 01:48 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: DonoBBD]
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Posts: 4053
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That is good imformation Dono. Thanks!
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#463967 - 02/14/17 07:28 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3516
Loc: Emory TX
Don, thank you very much. I never ceased to be amazed at the knowledge that's on this forum.
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#463973 - 02/14/17 09:12 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1537
Loc: West Michigan
Dono, you would have a lot of experience in this area then. Is there something to my observation that my new LED fixtures that have SMD strips of LEDs seem to be very bright up close, but the intensity (lumens?) as a function of distance seems to drop off more than my old standard HPS fixtures and bulbs? I thought maybe it had to do with the reflector angles in the old HPS fixtures throwing/reflecting light better but I think the LED just doesn't project somehow?

The big panel of individual single LEDs has pretty high quality LEDs (probably not the best they make given the price point). I bet they would work fine in overhead bays pointing at the ground that is 15-20 feet away though.

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#476922 - 07/24/17 06:09 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3516
Loc: Emory TX
Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice on drill bits. I'm not sure a set of drill bits are forever type items, but what would I look for in a good set of metal bits? 1/4" and 1/2" bits are what I need.

Thanks as always, Al
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#476926 - 07/24/17 06:57 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
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Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Al, I prefer American made, 135 degree split point bits. They grab a little when breaking through, but I think they perform better on hard material.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#476932 - 07/24/17 11:07 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
peachgrower Offline


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 350
Loc: Nashville, AR
+1 on what sprkplug said although I don't use split point...no reason really, just never have. May need to try them! They are not lifetime items but can last a long time is used correctly. Keeping the cutting edge cool is key. If you are cutting metal use some kind of lubricant...sure it may cut without it, but the lube is there for cooling the bit. Also dont go crazy with speed...this also heats up the bit...take your time and let the bit do the cutting. If you look at the edge of the bit and its turned blue, you got it too hot and it may or may not cut the next time you use it. Also graduate...start small and work up. Also a good sharp punch will help keep the bit from walking. You probably know this already but what I say is from doing it wrong at some point in the past..lol. If you spend the money on a good set of American made bits...the ones from overseas will work...but the quality control isn't always the best, sometimes they are great, sometimes not so much. One other thing is I absolutely LOVE the shops drill doctor. Once it is setup correctly a sharpened bit will peel metal making pretty little spirals. When you have a 8-10" or longer spiral of mild steel coming from a drill bit you just sharpened its a thing of beauty! lol The drill doctor is pricey but if you are going to do a lot of drilling into metal and spent the money on a good set of bits, its well worth it...nothing worse than being in the middle of project and the drill bit you need is dull.
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#476935 - 07/24/17 11:39 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
gully washer Offline


Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 302
Loc: Texas
With a little practice you can learn to quickly resharpen a dull bit using an angle grinder, or better yet, a bench grinder. (Youtube - sharpening drill bits)

I like to repeatedly dip the drill bit in a cup of water during the sharpening process in order to cool it and preserve it's hardness. And using cutting oil, or even water during the drilling process helps to prolong the life of a sharp bit.

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#476936 - 07/24/17 11:46 PM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: peachgrower]
gully washer Offline


Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 302
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: peachgrower
+1 on what sprkplug said although I don't use split point...no reason really, just never have. May need to try them! They are not lifetime items but can last a long time is used correctly. Keeping the cutting edge cool is key. If you are cutting metal use some kind of lubricant...sure it may cut without it, but the lube is there for cooling the bit. Also dont go crazy with speed...this also heats up the bit...take your time and let the bit do the cutting. If you look at the edge of the bit and its turned blue, you got it too hot and it may or may not cut the next time you use it. Also graduate...start small and work up. Also a good sharp punch will help keep the bit from walking. You probably know this already but what I say is from doing it wrong at some point in the past..lol. If you spend the money on a good set of American made bits...the ones from overseas will work...but the quality control isn't always the best, sometimes they are great, sometimes not so much. One other thing is I absolutely LOVE the shops drill doctor. Once it is setup correctly a sharpened bit will peel metal making pretty little spirals. When you have a 8-10" or longer spiral of mild steel coming from a drill bit you just sharpened its a thing of beauty! lol The drill doctor is pricey but if you are going to do a lot of drilling into metal and spent the money on a good set of bits, its well worth it...nothing worse than being in the middle of project and the drill bit you need is dull.
LOL!.... Just saw your post after I submitted mine.

+1 on your comments. Especially the suggestion to drill slow and steady.

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#476947 - 07/25/17 09:43 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Offline
Moderator


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3516
Loc: Emory TX
Guys, thanks for the advice, it's time to shop. I've got every conceivable wood bit known to man, but I've never really had a good set of metal bits.
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#476948 - 07/25/17 09:51 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
peachgrower Offline


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 350
Loc: Nashville, AR
Gully makes a very good point...you are not only keeping the edge by keeping it cool, you are keeping the hardness where it was tempered to begin with. If you heat the edge to much it will change the hardness of the bit, sometimes to the point to where it will not even hold an edge.
Learning to sharpen a drill bit by hand is an art. Its something people do not do anymore and its really a shame. I teach my kids in welding class to do it, then let them try to drill with it. I won't let them be done until they can drill through a piece of 3/8" mild steel...oh the attitudes you get...lol, but when they get through...wow, they are so proud. Then I show them the drill doctor...lol. Most people do not realize there are so many parts to a drill bit...look it up in google images sometime, they are pretty complex for what they are.
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#476949 - 07/25/17 09:54 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
peachgrower Offline


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 350
Loc: Nashville, AR
Just make sure they are rated for metal. I know there are many more bits to choose from, and more expensive ones, but I have had really good luck with Dewalt bits...they are readily available, and won't break the bank.
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#476952 - 07/25/17 10:07 AM Re: Metal to Metal [Re: FireIsHot]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6867
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
I have a drill doctor, but I can freehand them quicker by using my belt grinder.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
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