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#434836 - 01/18/16 05:23 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Online   content
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3396
Loc: Emory TX
Scott, that's a lot of questions, and you know my shows are on.

We stocked 25 total. We had RBT and HSB in the pond before we stocked these, and I allowed the pond a rest for a month or two before we put these in. I wanted at least one more CNBG spawn before I stocked them. I added 20 pounds of Rosey Reds at the same time I stocked the LMB. The RR's were cool little fish, and I enjoyed watching them for the 3 days they were here. They got hammered PDQ. In October I added 50 pounds of late season 2-3" tilapia.

If I had to guess the LMB's dining preferences, I'd say the more fusiform tilapia and GSF tie for first, with CNBG 3rd. But, with all the floods, GSF infestations, and various alpha predators in this pond, not once did the surviving CNBG not repopulate the pond on their own. No matter what scenario I come up with for me, BG seem to be the only constant when talking about sustainable LMB forage.

We pulled 4 LMB this week, and had 4 more jump the net. We'll re-seine next week, and get the rest.

All 4 LMB were between 13 and 14", and 1.5 to 1.75 pounds.
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#434891 - 01/18/16 11:55 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
esshup Offline
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All the shows are reruns, and they can be watched again. laugh wink

So, fish count was 25, they added roughly a pound and a half in weight, so they consumed a minimum of around 345 pounds of forage fish.....
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#441922 - 03/26/16 08:32 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
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We decided to pass on growing out predators in the brood pond this spring, and just raise tilapia for eventual transfer to the big puddle. We had drained, killed the brood pond with hydrated lime, let rain fill the pond back up, then added our tilapia.

We wound up getting Black/Gold Mixed Mozies, a new Mozambique Tilapia selection from Overton's Fisheries. Todd picked us out some larger early season tilapia and IIRC, was at a 1/7 male to female ratio.

Depending on what we want to do this fall, stocking tilapia in a clean pond this spring gives us 2 eventual options. One, we can let the pond rest, and the un-seined tilapia will die this next winter, and leave us with a clean pond to start over with next spring. Or two, we can go ahead and restock predators, and let the tilapia be the forage for them until the weather gets cold. When we get a feel for how the big puddle's doing this summer, we'll know how to proceed for the fall and winter. Does it need every bit of possible forage, or can it handle more predators of some type? We'll let the existing fish population answer that question for us.

Also, after 3 years of moving, re-stacking, increasing, or just generally fighting windmills, I've observed that a rock barrier of any size or type won't keep fish from moving from one attached pond to another. So, the rocks are out, and I'm installing a proper screened drain pipe and dam this week. Pics to follow on that.


Here's a few pics of the B/G Mixed Mozies.




Edited by FireIsHot (03/26/16 08:58 PM)
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#441924 - 03/26/16 08:51 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: esshup]
FireIsHot Online   content
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Originally Posted By: esshup
...So, fish count was 25, they added roughly a pound and a half in weight, so they consumed a minimum of around 345 pounds of forage fish.....

Correct. The jumper Legacy's were over 2#. Unlimited forage in the brood pond basically gave us a few 2 yo sized LMB the first year. If you're really wanting to get fish in and out of a brood/growout pond as quickly as possible, correctly sized forage in adequate numbers can't be stressed enough.
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#441927 - 03/26/16 08:58 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
esshup Offline
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Those Tilapia look great. Tell Todd that for me next time you see him.

Now, the only fly in the ointment is the big pond getting high enough to overflow into the brood pond. I know, I know, keep my mouth shut. But you still haven't found that voodoo doll......... laugh
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#441934 - 03/26/16 09:27 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
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I will. He's bringing the tilapia for the big puddle in a few weeks.

Oh, I've prepared as best I can for the flood curse you left us on Feb 20th, 2015. Not like I remember the exact date all this weather we had started. Just sayin'.

I'll fill in the overflow valley even with the top of the brood pond dam. That should be about 4' higher than now, and should prevent that movement. The only way water could get back in the pond would be to completely submerge the pond. I have a 100' roll of construction erosion fencing and posts set aside. If big weather's coming, I could always screen the entire south side of the pond, and that should at least keep LMB from moving back into the brood pond.

I got another rat trap pipe guard, and will wrap it in window screen on the inlet side when needed. Unless the water's as high as it is now, I'll just leave the screen off. I'm also trying some rubber anti-seep collars from Agri Drain. They're very easy to install, and cheap for the time saved.

Basically, 2 ponds that connect and are at the same full pool water level, have been tough to deal with.
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#441937 - 03/26/16 10:01 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1701
Loc: East Texas
Allen,

Great looking fish! And I like the plan, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.
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#441942 - 03/26/16 11:26 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
Sweet Al keep us apprised!
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#441947 - 03/27/16 08:29 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1682
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Al, Thank you for your posting here. I think the Legacy's looked Great. So, can you tell me how you determine the number or pounds of Tp to be added to the big pond this spring. And what about the B/G Tp. What the difference's are between those and the other Mosb Tp if any. If the ratio was 1/7, I am guessing hand picked? I can ask Todd @ Overtons, he has "Always" been there to assist, but he stays pretty busy and I hate to ask him things that I can get from good people like you. I have noticed you do not tag your fish, so do you fin clip the new Legacy's when added to your pond? If you do, where and how do you fin clip them?

Thanks
PS, I attempted to build my first grow out pond this week but it was too muddy in one spot, I almost stuck the excavator and the other spot had no clay. Guess I will wait till summer when it dry's out. Sucks

Tracy


Edited by TGW1 (03/27/16 08:32 AM)
Edit Reason: additions
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
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#442016 - 03/28/16 08:02 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Online   content
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Loc: Emory TX
Tracy, here's another thread going on right now about clipping and tagging.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=442013#Post442013

Todd did hand pick the TP for me, and as a rule, I email him before hand if I want something other than the norm.

I clipped the left pelvic fins on the Legacy's before restocking them to the big puddle. I just wanted to able to verify the initial stockers with this batch, and I just use orange Fiskar shears for fin clipping. Wally World should have them in the sewing department. If you've got a pair, fluoro scissors would probably work well too.


Edited by FireIsHot (03/28/16 08:30 AM)
Edit Reason: Dorsal to pelvic correction
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#463489 - 02/08/17 06:02 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Online   content
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Posts: 3396
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So I've let this thread slide, but I'm almost done with a 2016 wrap up. It's quite the tale.

So I invested in an old transport tank, and it's some of the best pond related money I've ever spent. Making the trip to Overtons takes about 3 hours for us, but transporting our fish in bags was a pain sometimes. We never lost any fish, but the twin tanks makes it a lot easier. We picked up our trout on a 60 degree day, and they all made the trip great. The proper amount of O2, a palm full of salt, and clove oil if needed, sure makes fish happy.




We're growing out trout for winter LMB forage, and the weather has made it rough. Although this is the second time we've had winter trout, I'm still new at this. Because of that, I didn't feed these trout when the water was 60 degrees or above at daylight, because the potential for this pond to hit the upper 60's could happen at any time. I didn't want to stress these fish any more than I had to. So, I've probably lost 3 weeks of growth but all the trout are alive, and eating well.

Observation and nothing more, but going from an 1/8" pellet to a 3/16" pellet added a half pound to the daily feedings. With fewer pellets per pound, the trout's feeding time was reduced also.

One other interesting thing, is that these trout will start getting really active when they hear the Mule coming. But, they won't move to food like BG. I literally have to throw food right above their heads, or they won't eat it until almost all the other food is gone.

A few of my babies. They still have no clue how short their life expectancy is. Oh, quick tip. Weigh your net wet, and mark that weight on the handle. If you're wanting to weigh multiple smaller fish at once, it sure makes it easy to just weigh them in a wet net, and then deduct the net weight. The hanger type fish scales like Rapala, or Boga work well. You can move and weigh fish as fast as you can get them in the net.





These trout are fed at dusk and dawn based on water temp.



Edited by FireIsHot (02/08/17 06:09 PM)
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#463506 - 02/09/17 07:35 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1701
Loc: East Texas
Allen,

Great ideas. And as always, very nice report. Looking to read more.
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The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#463515 - 02/09/17 09:01 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
Snakebite Offline


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 495
Loc: TN, Lakeland
How big were those trout when you received them?
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#463589 - 02/09/17 07:20 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Online   content
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SB, they're a lower sized grade, so 5" to maybe 10". My goal is to get as many as I can to 12" by the first weekend of March. Not sure it's doable because of the weather, but we'll know more once we drag a net.
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#463626 - 02/10/17 10:40 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 1682
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Al, I read the thread again from start to finish and I Thank you for the posting with pic's. I spoke with my dirt contractor neighbor last week and discussed another pond. Maybe two, one forage and one 1/2 acre. He said he could do it after things dry out. I tried last spring to build it myself and I started on the project but I almost buried the excavator in the digging process and so I will let him build it for me. The excavator was a rental and I could see me calling the heavy equipment co and requesting more equipment along with an operator just to get me out of the hole I had dug. LOL, But I did get a sediment pond dug and am now raising fhm's and bull frogs (lots of bull frogs). I counted 14 in the pond before the last cold spell. I did not plan on growing out frogs. They seem to like the fhm's and there are no lmb in there to eat them. They seem to be smart when it comes to food and safety. So, now the questions, what would be the best size pond for forage fish, including the seining part? Suggestions? And I like the trout deal where you can grow out some larger trout, I may need that starting next year. So maybe cnbg and trout forage out of one forage pond, do you see any problem with that, thinking cnbg from April till Dec and then trout from Dec to April 1st? How do you feel about that plan?
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#463638 - 02/10/17 12:44 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: TGW1]
esshup Offline
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Nice picture showing regular RBT and the Golden color morph of the RBT. You can see the goldens swimming around a lot easier. I like the transport tank!
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#463644 - 02/10/17 01:12 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: TGW1]
FireIsHot Online   content
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Originally Posted By: TGW1
So, now the questions, what would be the best size pond for forage fish, including the seining part? Suggestions? And I like the trout deal where you can grow out some larger trout, I may need that starting next year. So maybe cnbg and trout forage out of one forage pond, do you see any problem with that, thinking cnbg from April till Dec and then trout from Dec to April 1st? How do you feel about that plan?


Tracy, I'll answer your questions soon. Already working on some things I've learned over the last 5+ years with this pond.

The trout can come in after the CNBG, but I'm not sure they will flourish if numbers of more aggressive fish are left in the pond with them. Last time we had winter trout, they stayed in one small corner of the pond, and rarely fed with the CNBG or HSB. These trout are smaller, but it's pretty cool to watch them fly out of the water when going after pellets when they are the dominate fish in the pond.





Edited by FireIsHot (02/10/17 01:26 PM)
Edit Reason: ADHD
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#463647 - 02/10/17 01:34 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: esshup]
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Originally Posted By: esshup
...I like the transport tank!


Thanks Scott. The tank is primed, but I can't decide whether to paint it brown and white like a mini Blue Bell truck, or white with orange stripes like a 1969 Camaro. Obviously I've run out of things to fret over.
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#463756 - 02/11/17 10:14 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
Bill Cody Offline
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Where did you get the transport tank. Homemade? Cost New?


Edited by Bill Cody (02/11/17 10:14 PM)
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#463781 - 02/12/17 08:39 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
FireIsHot Online   content
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Bill, the tank is one of Todd's old transport tanks. I really liked the size of this tank because at 50 gallons of water per tank, I can easily carry fish in my 1/2 ton pickup. It is also narrow enough to fit in my Mule when moving to the pond. I'm thinking the tank originally came from Boatcycle in Henderson TX, but I'm not sure. Similar tanks priced new are around $1,200.

To me, the biggest advantage is the O2 system. That part is easily repeatable with ibc totes, or polyethylene tubs. I've used both, and they work well.

We've probably moved tens of thousands of fish over the last 5 years, and killed thousands of smaller fish early on too. The weak link has always been the transition from the hatchery pond to the big pond, so that is the area I focused on. The simple answer was to keep the fish wet. As long as they were in water, either seined up in the corner of the pond, or in the tanks, they were fine. Also, moving fish from the hatchery pond to the tank, or from the tank to the big pond was done in 5 gallon buckets with water, not nets. Since going to the buckets, the number of morts during movement has decreased to an easily countable number, and without exception, the only fish that died were less than 2" long.

I've posted this picture before, but this O2 rig has worked very well, and could easily handle a larger Pentair O2 diffuser if needed. I think I have less than $200 in this rig.
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#464647 - 02/21/17 06:23 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
esshup Offline
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Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
Originally Posted By: esshup
...I like the transport tank!


Thanks Scott. The tank is primed, but I can't decide whether to paint it brown and white like a mini Blue Bell truck, or white with orange stripes like a 1969 Camaro. Obviously I've run out of things to fret over.


White and orange. Keep it cooler in the sun. Plus that's Chevy colors. wink
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#464713 - 02/22/17 10:17 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
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I've decided to go ahead and pull the RBT weekend after next. I don't think we'll get the increase in size we were looking for, but we also weren't expecting multiple days at near 80 degrees in February. Having little experience with RBT, I decided to pull them early, instead of waiting for them to get stressed by the gradually rising water temps. Much better a week or two early, than one day too late.

With the poundage of RBT I have, and the larger size of my main pond, I just don't see any significant weight gains for the LMB here this year. Obviously the smaller size is an issue, but so is having to stock them all within just a few days. My original goal was to grow the smaller RBT to a size that would specifically benefit my larger LMB, but the weather changed that. All these trout will obviously get eaten, but the population of LMB that will be eating them is much larger than I would have hoped.

Now where I do see a huge benefit for me personally is in the recreational aspects of these RBT. Do to almost weekly culling and electroshocking removal of LMB, our LMB catch rates have dropped dramatically here in the last several years, and my boss isn't real happy about that. She understands why we do what we do, but when she fishes, she wants to catch fish. I think a 12" golden RBT on an octopus circle hook free swimming in the big pond will potentially give her all she can handle. If she's happy, I'm happy. I'll cage a few and keep them for her, and leave one or two in the cage to see at what water temp the RBT start getting stressed at. We have no aeration here, so my WAG is that the critical temp will be lower than water that is oxygenated. I'd be curious what those of you with RBT, and longer growing seasons have experienced.
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#464715 - 02/22/17 10:26 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
sprkplug Online   content
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Another vote for the Camaro colors..
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If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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#464718 - 02/22/17 10:36 AM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
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I'm liking your and Scott's suggestions, so white and orange it is.

My biggest concern with with the Blue Bell colors was being pulling over by the highway patrol thinking there's ice cream on board. Not sure they'd be happy seeing fish, and not cookies and cream ice cream in the back of my truck.
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#464729 - 02/22/17 01:12 PM Re: New CNBG pond [Re: FireIsHot]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1701
Loc: East Texas
Since the RBT are coming out early, does that mean none of them will be rapped in bacon?
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Try not to be THAT 10%

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