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Joined: Oct 2015
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Hi all,

What would you answer to the question of what is the BEST, most effective muck removal method that is NOT mechanical excavation? I am referring to products such as Muck Away, AquaClear, etc. of the countless varieties available. My pond has probably a foot and a half or two of pure thick muck.

I want to always be as eco/bio friendly as possible with this pond, and intend to stock it with trout this April (the temps are all perfect, along with ample of fresh water flow).

The water in this pond is unbelievable CRYSTAL clear. So clear it honestly is hard to understand how water can be so clean. That helps algal growth on the bottom of course too. The water quality is amazing to admire, but darn that muck is anything but pleasing to see, or work with.

If anyone has any well proven products, and hopefully not pummel me as salesman for their own products, it would be VERY appreciated. smile I am not concerned about price, I would like to see results, knowing Rome was not built in a day, nor is this pond expected to change in any short amount of time. Some improvement this year would be ideal though, if possible.

I am planning on tossing in some "bundles" of barley straw soon, and throughout the year to see if that helps at all. I fear of any residue from them accumulating on the bottom and adding to the muck problem (in my ignorance here).

Colorado DOW will NOT issue a permit for Tilapia, at least on for western Colorado (I'm in Hotchkiss, CO). Otherwise, they were my first choice.

Approximate pond specs:

- 100' x 67' x 8', with wild guess of up to 2' of muck, 6' of water above that.

- Solar powered aerator with phenomenal air output of a single diffuser, but only when direct sunlight is available - approx. 6-8 hours a day.

- Never colder than 45F degrees, never warmer than 55F degrees, according to 2016 records, as the first year monitored.

- pH is always 7.15-7.16
Many more questions will follow soon, as spring approaches.

Thanks A Big 'ole BUNCH for any help on this!
Chuck

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Last edited by DCQuarterCircle; 01/31/17 01:25 AM. Reason: Added more detail.
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I have nothing to sell you and I am not an expert but I do have a few observations/questions that may help. Plus I can't sleep tonight grin

The "muck" is made up of how much organic material? Beneficial Bacterias, like the brands you mentioned, only work on organic materials. So, if most of your "muck" was made up of inorganic materials, beneficial bacteria would be a waste of your money.

If I'm viewing the picture correctly there seems to be a good slope. Is that correct? How old is the pond?

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Based on your photo I suspect the majority of your muck is organic based due to the strong watershed slope on one side and very common plant growth around the edges. Eco-bio friendly bacterial digestors are typically slow acting when deep muck is present. For 2ft of muck be prepared for a long, frustrating costly, process. The bacterial products depending on brand and conditions may not do a lot more than keep up with the 2017 muck accumulation due to new organic growths and nutrient stimulated plants from the trout manure and the muck nutrient release. Keep in mind that bacterial products work best in warm water. As the temperatures increase above 60F and more toward 80F they work much faster. After several years of microbial additions you still may not be near your goal especially since your pond stays cool of 55F during summer.

Barley Straw. There are many species of algae that 'scoff' at the algae inhibiting chemical released by b.straw. Try it and see the effectiveness of it in your situation. When you use it, be sure to use a method that allows timely removal of the straw so it does not decompose and add to your muck problem.

There is a company near me in Ohio that uses a two man team of divers that use a trash pump suction system to remove-vacuum out pond muck. I have watched the process a few times. It is slightly cheaper and quicker than draining and dredging out sediments. Explore that option with divers in Colorado. https://mucksuckers.com/

In the end, after spending lots of dollars on eco-bio friendly products it may be cheaper and will definitely be a lot quicker to drain and have most of the muck dipped out. The ultimate cost could probably be about equal for both methods. Keep in mind you will also have algae plant issues to deal with during and from natural digestion of all the organic materials that will release plant growing nutrients each day during the year, not to count the new inputs. Nutrients will grow plants. It is what they do.

Your pond location is conducive to using a temporary siphon drain system to cost effectively remove the water so back hoe can dip out most of the muck from most or all of your pond. Once you get the pond drained down you may be able with a 3" trash pump, vacuum out most of the sloppy muck yourself with some help. As the pond fills to make the remaining muck sloppy and soupy repump it out. The process will be a dirty, wet, chilly procedure.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=462069#Post462069
Your water flow input would soon refill the pond for long term enjoyment, less muck-weed frustration, improved aesthetics, and some deeper better water quality for growing fish.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/31/17 12:22 PM.

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Chuck, it's good to see you posting again.
I particularly liked Bill Cody's idea of siphoning down the water level, getting a long reach track hoe in there to dig out the slurry, pumping with a trash pump more than once, etc.
It sounds like a project for July or August though. I'll come up and help if you like.
I have some diving experience too, just not cold water, dry suit stuff. If you could solve the questions of getting a muck pump, I'd like to try the underwater diving style of removal.
What we prolly would have to do is to get our Pond Boss Diverman Snrub to leave his farm in Kansas and visit Hotchkiss to assist. LOL
Do you have places on your property to spread the muck? It could be a really good soil amendment if it is primarily organic matter.
Roger

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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Based on your photo I suspect the majority of your muck is organic based due to the strong watershed slope on one side and very common plant growth around the edges. Eco-bio friendly bacterial digestors are typically slow acting when deep muck is present. For 2ft of muck be prepared for a long, frustrating costly, process. The bacterial products depending on brand and conditions may not do a lot more than keep up with the 2017 muck accumulation due to new organic growths and nutrient stimulated plants from the trout manure and the muck nutrient release. Keep in mind that bacterial products work best in warm water. As the temperatures increase above 60F and more toward 80F they work much faster. After several years of microbial additions you still may not be near your goal especially since your pond stays cool of 55F during summer...



Bill- has this been your overall observation about the effectiveness of beneficial bacterias, in northern latitude ponds, with deep muck issues?

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MNFSH2 AND Bill,

Thank you both very much for your replies and all of your GREAT help. Seriously. I really appreciate it.

This pond was completely dredged out about 15 years ago. It was initially dug about 40+ years ago. A next door neighbor quoted me at approximately $1,500 to re-dig this pond back out again this spring. WOW! That's it? Heck yeah, I'll have him do if for that cheap probably in March.

As you mentioned Bill, maintaining it will be much easier than only working against new growth on top of what is already there (i.e., your 2017 comment).

I significantly understated the last estimation I previously posted here. I thought it was about 25x30. Not even close. Before having it dug out again, it's 95' x 65'.

This neighbor fella also educated me on his experience of stocking his own ponds with trout from the trout hatchery about 5 miles from here. He said he really hoped this local hatchery would educate him on stocking density and proper management methods for live fish delivered, to begin with. He spent $350 for a delivery, and they all died because his water is too warm. He said he quickly learned [rainbow] trout can't handle 59F degrees. He also noted the hatchery doesn't care about customers, and only wants to sell fish to anyone wanting them. They require you to buy 100 pounds minimum.

So, to avoid making a new post to ask this question, while I hopefully still have you available here Bill:

What is the ideal pond shape and depth dimensions to have this one redug to? I just read Bob Lusk's article here, stating 3 to 1 slope is ideal, (though it is pretty steep sided right now): https://www.outdoorwatersolutions.com/silt-nature%E2%80%99s-pond-pudding. I recall a new pond development forum section I'll go read as well, but of course would like your input, being a reknowned contributor here on PBF. Lastly on this note, would you agree with this page?:http://www.pondowner.com/2013/09/perfect-pond-size-and-shape.html

Obviously I will put ALL INTENTIONS off until after pond is excavated again this coming March. I also just found this site for what to stock, when, and how many.

Many thanks again,
Chuck

Last edited by DCQuarterCircle; 02/04/17 04:15 PM.
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Your pond at 67x100 is still a small 0.15 ac pond, easy to drain and get it dipped out. I think the description of pond shape in the the link IMO is generally correct for YOUR intended goals unless one has specific goals such as raising/draining/seining for forage fish or sport fish needing optimum habitat and increased shoreline. For your trout try to get as close as possible to the round shape. It has the least amount of shoreline reducing potential weed problems and allows for the best water circulation with one central bottom diffuser and/or fountain. Weeds grow best along the shore in shallow water. The round pond minimizes shoreline. Shoreline slope between 2:1 to 3:1 is good for your goals.

Neighbor's comment: "He said he quickly learned [rainbow] trout can't handle 59F degrees." All trout love 59F. I'm not sure what he was referring to. If the trout are pretty healthy you should be able to co-ordinate with neighbors for 100lbs of trout. Does that minimu also apply to going to pick them up yourself? Since the place is close to you could get 20 lbs at time. For starters, I would not put more than 40-50 trout in a 0.15 ac pond. Fewer of 30-40 would be also good, until you get more experience trout growing.


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Thanks Bill.

That 59F degrees Darnell said his ponds run at sounded okay to me as well for trout. I've read in countless places that around 68F degrees is where trout begin to be stressed. This pond definitely reaches and maintains 66F degrees all summer, according to my records from last year.

At 1pm today the bottom temp is 45F, and surface temp is 50F. pH reads 7.43 at surface. Summer readings were consistently 7.15-7.16. Temp of one of the feeder springs reads 52F, and 6.97-7.00pH. I state a range for pH because my electronic meter didn't settle on one or the other. Normally it will, but that's pretty close range anyway.

Update on dimensions I just verified today: 95' x 65' rough oval. (you've seen the photo of it).

After building my $1000 dual panel setup, I'm still not completely sold a SOLAR powered aerator is the answer for a healthy pond. Near the equator perhaps, where sun is the norm. Sure we got a LOT of sunlight hours here in western CO, but it is cloudy a fair bit as well. And what about aerating at NIGHT? Is that important? How long of when the aerator runs during a day is potentially enough to sustain fish overnight year-round?

A few more points here: Eventually, I'd really like to get LMB, BG, and YP in this pond for good dinner plate offerings.

Also, oval shape of the redone pond would definitely be easiest. Darnell has built many ponds, so he knows well how to do it correctly. As per Bob Lusk's page I linked to earlier, the center ought to ideally be the deepest, where the diffuser will sit and circulate completely. I'll give you all the specs of my aerator setup if you'd like sometime to see if I will need to have ready a bigger system, once the pond is dug twice as deep as it is. (Shooting for about 10-15 feet deep.

Admittedly, after talking with Darnell, who owns all the necessary heavy equipment right next door here, I am getting excited to transform this pond into something GREAT. Easily maintainable, healthy, full of various species of fish is the goal. I suppose that's the case with nearly every pond [owner] though. smile

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Br aware that when your pond stays 62F-66F all summer the LMB-BG will not grow at average rates compared to a warm water pond. They will survive but expect slower growth. Feeding them pellets will allow the to grow the best they can in 60-66F. Consider SMB & YP as cooler water adapted fish for supplimental stocking instead of LMB-BG.


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DC - I have been reading everything about solar aeration I could get my hands on for the last 3 years. After installing two aeration windmills in the last two years I will also be installing a solar aeration rig in Western CO this summer. IMO, solar is the way to go out there if you don't have access to electricity. The panels will make power even on cloudy days. Just make sure you have them pointed and titled in precisely the right direction and angle. You can always add battery backup to the system but that is opening another can of fun. lol


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