Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Kansas Pond

Ok, here goes nothing…


I purchased the land about 3 months ago and I’ll be putting a house on it in a year or two. The pond is about 1.75 acres according to google acreage calculator, and I am looking to make some modifications to its depth for sure, and possibly expanding it.


According to Google Earth (highly recommended to see the history of your land) there was work done on it between 2010 and Feb of 2012, which included digging some dirt out and adding rock to the dam. It looks like the concrete spillway was added in 2012 as well. Every image has it holding water since 2010, and only dry once since 2002.


July 2010:




Feb 2012:




Feb 2013:




March 2014:




July 2015:





The pond to the south had the same type of work done at the same time.


There are over a dozen trees on the water side of the dam that have been there since 2002. I understand the risks of these trees and will need to make a decision: keep them and trim them, or remove the entire dam and start over. I need to identify each tree and act accordingly if I don’t remove it all.


There is some erosion on the east side of the dam from this past summer. We were in a flood warnings atleast 4-5 times this year (which is not normal). I am assuming that the concrete drain was clogged and couldnt handle the flow. I definitely need to clean it out.





I had the local conservation biologist come out and walk the land. He sent me a ton of info on the soil composition and properties, topographical map, drainage area, and some quail brochures.

I am going to get some depth readings this Sunday and adding more photos. I just wanted to start this thread so I can get the information out there ASAP.

rocks on dam:



looking east:



Video of outlet right after I unplugged the 4" pvc pipe. The Concrete Culvert is 48" and there is an 18" pipe that goes under the dam.

https://youtu.be/UcaN6taK1SQ


GSF:





I probably caught a dozen or so. Ranging from 1/2" to 2".

Welcome and good info to start with. GSF and a BG.

Welcome to the forum.

This is just my "first impression" and may not be the best way to proceed, but here goes.

I would leave the current pond pretty much as is with minor maintenence done to the dam and spillway as needed. Leave the biggest trees for shade and remove the rest.

Then I would take all the money you intended on spending to renovate this pond and use it to build a new pond directly above this one in the watershed. If this pond gets too much runoff you could even design the new pond to accomodate what watershed is recomended for your annual rainfall. The NRCS should be able to help with this.

You will spend about the same or even less building a new pond as you will cleaning out the old. It looks like you have plenty of land and watershed to work with. A new pond has a lot of advantages over trying to rework an old one. And an old second pond works wonderful as a "trash fish" pond. The place where you can put excess fish from your main pond for a pond that is easy for kids to catch a fish almost every cast.

You could build your house pad at the same time you are excavating the new pond so the site will be settled and ready to build when you are. A new pond you have complete control over features, construction technique, and you will know the integrity of the dam. While the new pond is coming up to speed with stocking, you will have the old pond to fish. If the old pond dam some day fails because of the trees, by then your new pond will be up to speed and you can determine then to refurbish it with a cleanout and new dam or just fill it in.

That is the way I would approach it if it were my property. I've built 4 and rebuilt one pond on my home property. You can't have too many ponds. Two is better than one. I have also cleaned out two old ponds for my kids, and I'll tell you, building new is a whole lot less work and mess.

Links to my pond building experiences.

A pond dedicated to RES

Building a mini forage pond

Building a sediment pond

Reclaiming a 50 year old pond

My main pond I don't have many build pictures of my main pond because did not find PBF till the pond mainly was finished.

Well, I went out yesterday and found out it isn't nearly as deep as I wanted or expected. the deepest area was around 6.5 feet. I would bet that over 50% of the pond is in the 2-4 feet range. I'll create a map and post it soon on the depths.

While we were out we caught three LMB! Obviously this pond was stocked a few years ago when it was dug out and worked on. I am still trying to get ahold of the previous owner.


The first two were a little thin. But the third one was nice and full.

Thoughts?

May be facing an imbalanced fishery leading to overpopulation of skinny, under performing LMB. If you are not going to perform rehab on the pond you can address this dynamic by improving cover for BG and boost the available forage and cull all LMB in the bottlenecked range that are not performing. If you are planning on pond rehab you'll be starting over from scratch so you don't have to worry about the current status of your fishery.

I finally was able to contact the previous owner! After they dug it out in 2011, the did NOT stock it and she was under the assumption that there were no fish in it until I told her today.

That does change things on my end. I was going to have a hard time doing work on a pond if it was stocked, if it didn't leak and if it was deep enough to prevent a winterkill.

There are two ponds to my north that drain into my BOW and I'm assuming that is where the fish came from.

Also, the 4" PVC pipe that drains into the 48" culvert drain is as loose as a goose. I can easily, from the boat, rotate it. I didn't play with it very much. If it were to pop loose I would lose about 2 feet of water very quickly.

I did get the name of the construction company that dug it out in 2011 and I will be giving him a call tomorrow to consult.

I'll be posting more pics in the next few days as well.

Thanks for the replies so far. I am definitely going to add a silt pond to my north no matter what I do to this current pond. :-)

Cheers!

Building several wing dikes in the feeder creek may be less expensive than a catch pond and will control silt well. I'd request a quote both ways before committing. Wing dikes are easier to dredge every few years than a catch pond is, just make the dikes wide enough for a backhoe or excavator to sit upon.

Do wing dykes control sediment in the stream channel or in the pond below the stream? I understood they kept the main stream channel from filling by increasing the water velocity so sediment would not accumulate in the channel. Does this faster-moving water carry more sediment downstream?

On Thursday I am meeting the guy who previously dug it out. I'll bring up the wing dyke concept. I am going to try and get as many different options covered while we are out there.

I am going to google wing dykes, but if someone has some literature on it, could you please post it here.

Thanks.

Wing dikes on a river function much differently than one on a smaller course of water. In a river they force water into the main channel helping prevent sediment from accumulating. In a 15' wide creek a series of dikes can be make on opposite banks that extend 10' to middle of channel - the idea is the slow the water down so the particulate can sink and accumulate behind the wing dykes and not flow into the pond. Every few years one can excavate the accumulated silt on the front side of the dikes and restore the depth pretty simply. The main advantage of wing dikes is they are likely cheaper to build than a catch pond [pushing clay into a berm and installing riprap - don't need to worry about clay liner/leaks, no spilway installation] and are easier to excavate than a catch pond which would require draining and drying [the latter of which may never happen due to rains]. This is how it was explained to me by an engineer some years back. Every situation is different obviously but wing dikes upstream of a pond and wing dikes on a river seem to be designed for different purposes.

Attached below is a rough idea of what I think y'all are talking about doing for some wing dykes.

The red lines indicate the wings and the green one indicates an actual crossing for my truck. I'll be removing some of the trees either for the wings or an actual silt pond.

The only access I have to the back side of the property is over the dam. In my eyes that is a no-go. So I'll be adding a route on the North side either way. Why not now?

How many wings are needed?

Last client I worked with on pond design installed these as his watershed consisted of 100 acres of crops and during heavy rains it was very turbid runoff. Pond contractor installed 4 dikes across 50% of the creek width about 20 ft apart, so two on each side. I'm no engineer but the contractor was confident it would be sufficient. When consulting with your contractor see what he recommends in terms of the number and distance between them. I think 2-4 would be sufficient.

From your overhead it appears there exists another drainage down the tree line straight from a feedlot upstream. If that is another course of water I would consider something to slow that potentially high nutrient ag runoff water from entering pond directly...small berm with cattails create a wetland maybe to help slow water down and strip some nutrient levels before dumping into your pond.

Question how did you get the history pictures on Google earth

Click on the "Show Historical Imagery" tab at the top, thn move the slider to show older images on Google Earth.

Thanks that should be interesting for my property

Watershed control ponds are ponds with tall dams but a very low full pool setting and a small overflow pipe. The idea behind them is to hold large volumes of water behind the dam only temporarily while the water flows out the small overflow pipe to meter the water out slowly. They use them for flood control in a watershed district. But you could use a similar idea with dikes with them holding back the water temporarily upstream while metering it out slowly to your pond.

But consider the cost of anything you do compared to building a complete new pond. My suggestion is still build a new pond somewhere above the current one with either a sediment pond above it or changing the total watershed flowing into it (which would not be as hard as it first seems) to limit sedimentation.

By changing the inflow, you could also eliminate fish contaminatiin from above ponds. A definite positive.

As an example, imagine a new pond situated on your picture between the current pond and the position where the number 14 is (next to the last satelite picture in the series). The dam would run paralell to the creek behind it (so no creek water would enter this new pond). Notice this would take the water source for the pond completely out of the stream source and out of the way of fish coming down stream. No more fish contamination problems.

Now notice that in the field pictured to the right in your pictures it is terraced. But there appears to be no waterway. It appears the terrace dumps out into your pasture (they do not do that much any more but common earlier). This is to your advantage if you need watershed for a pond. Simply continue this terrace to your new pond location if needed, or depending on the lay of the land, the water might already end up there. If more watershed is needed create a terrace paralell to the existing creek to the NE to gather more water for the pond. Maybe even from not only the north but to the SE if needed and depending on the lay of the land.

That may or may not be enough watershed. In SE Ks it would be more than enough likely but I know you get lots less rain. The NRCS has all the records and recomendations for what size watershed you need for a pond. Too much watershed and you get lots of flowthrough and maybe sedimentation problems. Not enouh and water levels drop too much between significant rains. NRCS has the data needed to figure out optimum watershed size.

More is not always better. It can lead to dam failure or excessive construction costs to handle the high water flow rates over the overflow. Water coming from ponds above that are already stocked is always problematic.

Not trying to tell you what to do with your property. Only trying to give you ideas of options you may not have considered.

Check out my new RES pond where I use terraces to modify where my water comes from and how much. Here is the same link as above. Look towards the end of the thread.

RES pond

I have had one guy come out so far to talk strategy. I still need to make up my mind on how I want to do it before he starts throwing numbers at me.

He thinks we could raise the dam 2-3 feet to increase the size without having to do much digging to expand. I am, however, worried about depth. So we will still have to make 25-30% of it 10 feet. At least that is what I have read. Is that correct?

The only issue I foresee with raising the dam is the trees on it being under a foot or more of water. The builder said he has been doing this 20 years and has never had an issue with trees(alive or dead) on dams.

I am working on getting at least three more builders out there to give their opinion and prices.

Also, building a pond the west side of that tree line is a no-go. That is where the house is going to be. I do appreciate the ideas tho. Keep em coming!

Thanks

Good evening ya'll.

I have been busy planning my house build as well as tossing around the idea of expanding my pond. So it has been a while since an update.

On saturday, I received a call from a friend that seemed to be good to be true. He was asked if there was anybody he knew that wanted to get rid of some dirt for a large construction project (that happens to be 5 miles away from my land). In return, I would get a free pond and a gravel road which runs about 450 feet put in on my land.

He needs 125,000 cubic meters of dirt, which is a huge amount. 500ftx500ft square going 20 ft deep is the amount he needs. I may not be able to give him it all, but I am the closest source for his so far. He puts his bid in tomorrow and he'll know soon if he gets the job or not. This is a company that has been in KS since 1925 and has done hundreds of large jobs in the area.

So, if he wins the bid and uses me, I am going to expand my pond by a ridiculous amount.

I plan on going 3:1 ratio for the first 12 feet and then 2:1 down to the deepest part. Is there a problem with going too deep? I don't think I'll want anything more than 20ft. Not sure why though...

Yes, I plan on aerating the shit out of it. The correct way, with the proper equipment. I have the extra money now since I wont be paying to move dirt.

Does anybody have possible concerns or issues that I should be aware of?

Thanks and Cheers!

Only concern is that while excavating dirt from a hole, you may not achieve a well-lined and sealed pond. What happens if sand or rock is hit? Do you suddenly have a large expense for bringing in extra equipment to compact the basin or if needed, a dam?

Just some thoughts of what could go wrong. However, take advantage of it! I would be the first in line.

Well, it has been a few months but they are going to start excavating this week. They are going to be taking out about 40,000 cubic yards of clay, and then putting the top soil back on top. should be between 12-14 feet for 50% of the pond. Maybe even 75%.

I am working on an outline of the new pond and putting together a list of questions for y'all before they drain the pond on Friday.

What I need to confirm ASAP is the slope. Would a 3:1 slope to a depth of atleast 10ft all the way around the pond be ideal?

Or should change the slope to be more steep after 6ft of depth?

They are going to be putting the plans in CAD and sending me a PDF tomorrow. I've told them 3:1 slope for now. Hopefully I was correct.

Thanks

As with all things pond related, 'it depends'. Having a fairly steep drop off on the pond margins limits the areas shallow enough to have adequate sunlight penetration for plant growth. This means less 'weeds', depending on how you define that. The tradeoff will be in cover loss (less plants means less cover for small fish and creatures that form the food chain); also, spawning areas may be less than ideal for some species of fish. So....it depends.

I am not familiar with the soils in the Wichita are enough to say, but around me it would be fine. We have a number of "borrow pits" along different highways and railroad overpasses that have seemed to fill and hold water just fine.

But we have a clay based subsoil. If you have very sandy soil or rock veins or other problems where the water could leak out then it might not work well. If your soils will not hold water easily you might need proper compaction of the bottom and sides.

You could make that part of the deal. That they compact the final hole with either a sheeps foot roller or rubber tires scrapers or loaded haul trucks. If you have concerns of it not holding water. Do you have any borrow pits along raised roads in your area? Do they hold water well? That might at least give you an idea.

As far as going steeper than 3:1, you need clay or some type soil that will not slough off easily. Otherwise over time the sides will slough off of the steep part and make some of the less steep part more steep. Also steeper than 3:1 makes it either very difficult or impossible to properly compact the pond bottom. If it were me, unless I knew specifically that my soils would stand up to steeper and hold water, I would stay at 3:1.

No expert, those are just the things I would consider if it were mine.

They dug a test hole on Sunday. The clay based subsoil started to show some shale at about 14 feet. So they will stay out of that range. probably stay in the 10-12 ft. which gives me 12-14 feet of water.

I am going to have a local pond builder come out and do the finishing touches on it. Create some mounds, valleys, drop offs, flat areas.

Should i be putting the top soil back ontop of the clay after they are done? Or just put the top soil back along the edges that I want grass/vegetation?

I'll see if they have a sheeps foot available to pack it all in after they are done. Thats a really good idea sir. Thanks.

The sheepsfoot should be used as they put the clay back in the hole, in 8 inch or so layers. You want to end up with 18"-24" thick layer that is knitted together when they are done.

I don't think that they are going to be putting clay back into the hole. They are starting to take the topsoil off today and store it on the next to the pond. They have asked me if I want to put the topsoil back on top of the exposed clay once they are done. That is the question I don't know the answer to.

I know vegetation needs topsoil to grow, but is it necessary for the bottom of the pond to have topsoil?

Also, he sent me over a digital CAD drawing of the proposed pond. See attached file. 3:1 slope all the way to depth. Which will be 12-14 feet.

I'm no pond builder, but I can say that my small pond was mucked out last year and the dam had little to no residual muck left on the rocky clay and the plant life is doing exceptional in that area. Other areas has some darker soils left around the remaining upper perimeter (about a third). I suppose it all boils down to the fertility of your watershed, mine seems to be very nutrient rich. If it lacks fertility, it might be a good idea to put some top soil back in, if not, I'd leave it out. Let's see what the experts say before you take my advice however.

EDIT: I have read that some folks will put some top soil down so that they can seed grass or wheat (or whatever) over the entire pond bottom and sides so that erosion is kept to a minimum as the pond fills.

good point about the erosion as the pond fills. I have about 200 acres to my north that drain directly into my pond. So hopefully it doesnt take long to fill once spring hits in KS.

Thanks for the input sir.

i had them switch to a 4:1 slope all around except for the north side. gradually went to a 10:1 slope to provide a vegetation area. Hopefully it'll bring in some ducks and provide tons of shelter to smaller fish.

No on the topsoil back into the pond below the water line, yes on around the pond to get things to grow. I'd plant then get erosion mat down (jute fibers, not plastic mesh) asap to prevent soil erosion above the water line until the pond is full.

Many newly built ponds in my area are muddy because of suspended clay. One of the things I discussed with my NRCS guy was that I would like non muddy water. He suggested putting as thin of layer as possible of topsoil back in the pond so water was exposed to less clay. Some of our subsoil clays suspend in water, some do not give a problem. Silt in the topsoil being larger particles than clay will settle out where some fine clays will not.

I did so and lining with topsoil did give me a pond without the normal muddy clay turbid water.

That is the good part to putting topsoil to cover the clay bottom. The bad part is it introduces fertility so may make any FA or plant problems you could have worse. If you line with topsoil you may have no need to fertilize to get an algae bloom.

I built another pond very near without putting topsoil covering the clay. It is clay turbid and muddy looking. I fertilized to get a bloom. It will clear eventually as the bottom gets a muck layer. At least all old ponds around here eventually clear unless bullheads are keeping it stirred up.

So it is a mixed bag putting topsoil back in to cover the clay. It depends.

My clay is the type that only suspends for three or four days after a huge rain. I wonder if that type of clay contributes to my leak problem? Is non suspending clay more pervious than suspending clay?

What is the procedure for me to test it and see if I should put the top soil back on?

I'm assuming I would need to test the clay as well as the topsoil.

Stir up some of the clay in a jar and see if it settles rapidly enough. If not, put topsoil on top of it. If it's the type of clay like mine that settles rapidly, the jar should clear overnight.

Personally, I'd rather use aluminum sulfate and hydrated lime to change the ionic balance in the pond water than put topsoil into the pond. The potential excess nutrient problems associated with the topsoil is what I'd try to avoid.

I tested some top soil and some clay in different glass jars. After 12 hours it was clear, and after 24 hours it was almost 100% settled.



Also, they started work on the pond yesterday!





Asked the bossman if he had any concrete laying around with no re-bar in it. He delivered a load today. They are big pieces, so I'll probably create 1-2 piles in a 12 ft of water. I'm assuming i can get more if I ask...

Those types of concrete will make very good structure. Several large areas like that pictured in 3-7ft of water are IMO the best use of concrete.

I like to group structure. For example 3 piles in a triangle with about 10 feet apart. Also some structure with good vertical relief ( bottom to about 3 feet below the surface in deep water). In the structure archive is a narrative on types of structure and a few pics.

I have about a dozen tabs open for structure ideas and have been slowing building over the past week. I have about 8 done already. Working on some deeper water pieces now. Concrete is drying. I'll post pics once I am done.

Below is day two's progress. I told them I wanted a 4:1 slope on the sides. I will verify tomorrow if it correct, but 4:1 seems a bit steep. Seems like my artificial structure would just roll down to the bottom unless I created a flat area for place them.

The hole is about 9-10 feet deep right now. Which is actually 11-12 feet at full pool

One questions. Everybody here says that a sheepsfoot roller is HIGHLY recommended. Even though they are not going to be putting clay/topsoil back in (after the get done digging), do I still need them to pack it back down?

Thanks

Most sides are 2:1 or 3:1.

One question. Everybody here says that a sheepsfoot roller is HIGHLY recommended.

Even though they are not going to be putting clay/topsoil back in (after the get done digging), do I still need them to pack it back down?

All bottom areas should be compacted with whatever device that is being used for compaction. You dig a hole but it needs to be compacted well for it to hold water providing the dirt is proper for building a pond. Even with compaction many ponds leak due to poor building and compaction techniques. "You dig a hole, but build a pond." Holes never hold water for long.

If you cannot get a roller, run a loaded scraper or large backhoe with the front bucket loaded all over the bottom and as far as possible up the sides several times.

If I need to get it compacted, then I will. Just gotta talk to the boss on the job site.

I am also going to get some soil samples of the clay, once they get to depth, so I can decide if I need to add lime/alum. It'd be alot easier to add it when she is dry.

I'll be getting some more pics tonight for ya'll.

Thanks again for the replies.

I agree with packing the pond bottom. It's cheap insurance. Ask the boss how much it would cost to come back and pack it if it filled with water and the water leaks out

Personally? I would pack every square foot of the pond that will be under water.

thanks for the input, once again. I'll get that sheepsfoot on order. Shouldn't be an issue getting it.

Here are some pics from Friday. All my free time has been spent building structure and scouring craigslist for stuff to throw in the pond.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as we progress.

Cheers!

Got a quote from the construction company today that is digging the pond to install riprap all the way around it.

-Excavate 4' x 1717' x 1' to keep rock from moving.
-Purchase and freight of 4"x7" cream colored riprap
-Install 475 tons for $11,300

That comes out to about $23.8 per ton installed or $356 per 15 ton load.


He also gave me some dimensions of the pond:

173,592 sf or 3.985 AC of surface area

47,580 cy or 1,284,649.2 cf of total volume if full to the extreme top where the pond ties into the existing ground

Thoughts?

Why are you rip rapping all the way around it ?

Mainly for erosion (KS winds) and trying to keep that wave action from muddying up the water.

Secondary benefit of having structure for for crayfish.

I know it is expensive, but the pond is dry now and it'll be the best time to do it. I have a ton of money left over in my budget since I was able to get this dug for free. So I figured I would build it how I want it.

What kind of rip rap are you going to go with?

4"-7" if i can get it at a good price. Not sure on what the rock is actually made of.

I am finding alot of information on using ag lime to help with the water clarity on an existing pond. But nothing on a freshly built pond that is dry.

Would it be a good idea to apply the ag lime to the bottom of the pond now? And how much per acre should I be using at a minimum?

I have read that you really can't over do it. I have 4 acres of pond and one dump truck will get me about 15 tons for around $200 delivered.

Some updated pics. They should be done by thursday. It is alot bigger than I thought it would be.

I have worked in a killer deal for 475 tons of riprap being installed. They are gonna excavate a 1ft deep by 4ft trench around the water line and dump the rip rap in. But I can have them widen it if I need to.

Questions:

How far above full pool level should I have rock exposed?

And how deep should it go?

Thanks.

At full pool, new pond, your water level will likely go down farther than it will go up from the full pool level. Depth the riprap placement varies a lot. I suggest the riprap go downward several feet depending on how you measure the distance on the slope or just by depth. Riprap is often extended down the slope for 7-9ft to 2.5-3ft of water. I prefer to extend it down into deeper water so some riprap is useful when water level goes down 2-3ft during drought periods.

The embankment above the waterline is called free board. Often the riprap extends upward to the top, where the bank levels off, but this varies pond to pond.

Yes, spread the lime on the dry pond bottom.

Take a soil sample if you have the time to wait on it and get a recommendation based on the soil acidity and buffer. If you are pressed for time and need to get it applied asap I personally would go with 4 ton per acre or more.

If your rip rap is crushed limestone it will take care of the portion of the pond basin that this stone is covering. Because that stone is what that portion of the water will mostly be in contact with.

If you have an area of inflow where you are afraid a lot of water entering the pond will cause erosion till the pond gets full you might consider dumping and spreading out a pile of lime in this area. Then the erosion is lime into the pond rather than soil.

If you are in an area that has naturally high pH soils (some areas of Kansas do) you may not need lime at all. If you are in an acidic area like I am, it is hard to overdo the lime application.

Good evening everyone! It has been a long year but I finally have some water. Bumping this post up and next week I will be adding about two dozen pics of my progress from the last year.


CHEERS!

Looking forward to the pictures. Glad to hear a fellow Kansan making progress.

Fist two pics are of some trenches that I had dug. I know they are going to eventually fill in, I just wanted to changed up the bottom of the fish bowl. The trench is 4ft wide and 4ft deep.






Third pic is a view from the North end. It is a 10:1 slope that has a layer of top soil on it for future plants/structure. Pile of branches/trees are staked down with fence posts and wire and it'll be in about 10-12 feet of water.



Last pic is of my center setup for aeration. I will have a total of three aeration spots once it is complete.



More to follow.

Cheers!

4"-7" Rip Rap and the kids.



Not pond related. But I got the road installed and has made my life much easier. Access to the pond is seamless now.



Took out the old metal pipe (18") and installed the new one (plastic and 24")



This pic is from behind the dam and shows my extra 6" pvc pipe that I had installed. On the pond side (no pics yet) I plan on having a swiveled stand pipe that I can adjust. This will allow me to lower the water level about 2 feet (if the rip rap and standpipe are installed correctly) and do some shorline maintenance if I want to. If the install is off, then it'll just be used as an extra pipe for drainage during high runoff periods.

The pic only shows one of the two 20 ft sections of 24" pipe installed.



More to come!

Cheers!

South setup for aeration. I didn't weight this one down as much because I plan on moving it during the winter months.



The next three pics are all of the structure I put in the north end of the pond near the 10:1 slope. There was a Christmas tree farm less than 3 miles away that I used to get the excess trees that he was gonna burn. I'll be hitting him up every year.

I tried to place the pallet stacks about 12-15 feet away from each other in a triangle setup with the christmas trees in between. I learned a hard lesson...

PUT MORE THAN ON BLOCK ON YOUR STACK OF PALLETS!!!!

Some of them floated away when I got my big rain and added 9" feet of water. I bought a pair of waders and fixed the situation, but I wasted an entire day doing so. All of my pallet stacks now have 3 blocks per.

Just some more shots of the structure on the north end of the pond. All of the limbs/trees are staked down and dried out for almost a year before we received any rain. The north end will be a NO SWIMMING area due to the possibility of getting caught.

The last pic kinda shows it all put together from the north shore.









More to come

These pics are of the south side structure. Mostly hand built out of pvc and concrete. I tried to set it up so I had fishing lanes from the dam to avoid getting snagged.








The last pic is me standing in the center of the south portion looking East. The south side doesn't have very many 'snagish' structure because the dock will be relatively close. There is also a decent cliff/dropoff of about 4-5 feet that separates it. If you look at the four stack of pallets, they are sitting on the edge of that dropoff. The south side of the pond is the old pond and there will be an aeration setup a few feet north of that drop off.

Almost a full year with out any substantial rain until September! We had about 4-5 days of heavy sprinkles and intermittent showers leading up to the big rain. This helped because I have 2-3 ponds to my north that need to fill up before I get big runoff. I think my 'neck of the woods' received about 4" in under two hours once it finally opened up. I am guessing around 9 feet of water depth from it since I have about 200 acres of runoff that funnels into my pond.

Pic is from the West side of the pond where the dock will be. Notice the INTACT stack of pallets. They just lifted right up and took sail!




Erosion is a real thing by the way! lol. These are pics on the north side where that stack of rip was. The idea original was that it would slow down the flow and create a drop so that the sediment would settle. Not that it is a big deal, but I noticed some small erosion during spring but didnt think anything of it. It turned into ALOT of erosion once the big rain finally hit.

Yes, I forgot to weigh down the north aeration setup. LOL.











Last pic is of that 10:1 area over ran with weeds.



More questions and a few videos to follow!

Cheers!

The first week of July when I had about 2 feet of water I put in 1,000 (1.5"-2") golden shiners (Andersons), 2,000 FHM and 400 gambusias. It was a gamble because I didn't know if it could hold water long enough to hit the fall raining season.

After the big rain in early September this is what I saw...

https://youtu.be/oyjNJC1z9sY

https://youtu.be/oyjNJC1z9sY

Looks like my FHM found a way to spawn in less than ideal conditions. It is also possible that they are from the ponds up stream. I have since seen hundreds if not thousands of them

Also, last week I put in 100 papershell cray fish from upstate NY as well as 100 brooder sized golden shiners from Andersons. I didn't know if any of the original stocking survived. If they did, then this will give me different classes.

Here is stocking plan going forward. Keep in mind it is just under 4 acres and 12-15 feet at max depth.


July of 18:

2,000 FHM

400 gambusia

1,000 2" golden shiners


September of 18:

100 paper shell crayfish

100 4"+ brooder golden shiners


October of 2018:

800 - 2-4" Bluegill
100 - 4-7" Bluegill

200 - 2-4" RES
100- 4-7" RES

10,000 FHM


Fall of 2019:

150-200 LMB

150-200 HSB

Spring of 2021:

Tilapia


The goal is going to be a semi-trophy LMB and HSB. I am not looking to set records, but I do not want a bunch of stunted bass to catch.

I will not be adding catfish, but I know that there are some from upstream that will eventually make it in.

Without bass being stocked for a year, will my plan work to provide enough bluegill, fhm, and golden shiners?

I do plan on setting up a feeder, but I don't want that to be the foundation for my forage/feed of the bass.

Also, I wanted to thank everyone who has been a contributing member of this community. I have spent the last 18 months lurking and learning. Ya'll have been great! I just hope that this thread can help someone else!


Cheers!!!!!!!!

Should I be asking these questions and posting these pics in a different area since I am not getting any feedback?

If the mods need to move it since it is no longer a renovation, then please do! Thanks

I is good where it is.

Lots of structure. Do you have all depths covered with structure (surface to bottom)?

I like the groping of structure in groups of 3 or 4 like you used. Always remember with structure placement to think in the vertical dimension as well. Also don't put structure where it will impede emergency outflow.


FH can do well in poor water conditions.


Do you have questions? Make a map of structure post full pool.

Nice looking pond. You mentioned that Catfish will wash in from upstream. I had this happen early on (bull head) and in hind sight I often wonder if I should have stocked a few LMB to keep them from getting out of control. These days I have the bullhead in check but only after lots of trapping / fishing / removal. Might be worth consideration to put in a few LMB of a bigger size.

Pond and structure looks good.

If catfish come in from above GSF potentially could also.

I stocked BG in early spring and LMB in fall, and my BG got ahead of my LMB and have never had a successful LMB spawn. That might not be a bad thing for trophy LMB but I have had to raise up additional LMB for supplemental stocking. My point is don't let the forage fish get too far ahead of your preaditors if you want a sustainable LMB population. They can get thick enough to inhibit LMB spawning.

On the north and south end I have vertical structure that'll reach to about 2-3 feet from the surface.

The question I had was about my stocking plan and if the BG population will be big enough in 12 months to sustain the LMB and HSB that I put in.


Cheers!

There will inevitably be cats and GSF from the pond up north. Not sure how to keep them at bay besides having a bigger mouth in the water.

I am fine with my LMB not getting successful spawn since I am going for more of a trophy pond anyway.

Is it possible to just stock female LMB? I could always add more when needed (every other year or so)


Cheers!

"They" tell me it is possible to stock female only but it is beyond my level of competency.

The GSF and catfish should not be a problem as long as you get your BG and any other forage fish well established early. In our neck of the woods GSF are a problem if they establish and spawn before the "good" forage base gets stocked. The big mouth GSF tend to eat all the tiny newly stocked fish. But once your BG get established you will find few GSF that make it past your large LMB. Same goes for BH. Long as you have large LMB they will not thrive and be few.

I like your plan, not that I am an expert but from what I understand from my personal experience. By introducing your lmb and hsb one year after stocking your bg and res, I think you could stock some yoy lmb and hsb which would improve survivability of the lmb and hsb. And yoy should be available in the fall of 19. Stocking 8 to 12" lmb and hsb might reduce the time you would wait to enjoy your fishing by having larger fish in the pond earlier. If you were to go that way, I would reduce the numbers of lmb and hsb to stock.

Female bass only usually cost more, but might fit your goals. For trophies in Kansas, you could consider F1 LMB.

Well, over the past week we have had over 5" of rain and I am now at full pool. Which is a good and bad thing.

Most of my pallet stacks floated away even though I spent an entire day adding cinder blocks. I had 3 blocks per stack of 4-5 pallets and it wasn't enough. I probably should have tied them all together and used the blocks as an anchor instead of putting them on top. LESSON LEARNED!

Below are a few videos of my 24" corrugated pipe. The first video shows that it has a leak at the connection of the 90 degree and the straight pipe. The installer has been notified and will be fixing it once the ground isn't peanut butter.

Also, my rock perimeter and my overflow pipe do not line up. I knew this was going to be an issue and it looks like I have to cut some of the pipe to lower the level. There are three factors at play.

1. Utilizing the rock perimeter that I paid to have installed.
2. Keeping the pond level low enough so that there isn't standing water north of the pond into the tree line.
3. Getting the most water in my pond as possible.

The plan as of right now is to lower the level down to where there isn't standing water north of the pond. This will put my rock edging under about 18-24" of water and it will maximize my total volume. I will eventually have a tractor and a dump trailer and I plan on slowly adding more rock above the current rip rap that I have installed. More work and more money, but it gives me the most depth.

Leaky pipe:

https://youtu.be/OWVl_QseJwY

Overflow pipe:

https://youtu.be/9a4LoEWzRCQ

Rain as stopped and the drainage is slowing down:

https://youtu.be/-bJHNA_EQZU


I apologize if I rambled a bit. It is hard to explain what I see at the pond.



Cheers!

The current plan is to use F1s. I may even build a grow out pen and sex them myself. I have a year to decide!

Good looking pond. You might want to install a trash guard on your overflow pipe so that it doesn't become clogged up.

Don't feel bad about the floating pallets...I learned the same lesson when my pond filled up.

+1 on the trash guard.. Agri-Drain makes a nice one.

I am also in agreement about keeping the pond as deep as possible. I might even consider forfeiting the north side trees if it meant another foot of depth.

Get some crawdads in there before next march...they will love all the submerged rock.

The good thing about them floating is that I know where they ALL are. I wanted to keep structure away from the dock to avoid any chance of someone getting caught while swimming.

Also, I will be getting a trash guard soon and I'll definitely check out Agri-Drain. Thanks for the tip!


Cheers!

Before...

After...



I'm glad to have someone else in this with me. It wasn't funny at the time but it's really funny now that I'm not alone! THANKS FOR THE CHUCKLE!

Just so you know, I added plenty of rocks to the stacks with out tying them together and that has worked with one exception...winter ice can de-pile your rock stacks, but by that time the pallets were waterlogged and did not move. I just lost my visual locator because the rocks stuck up above the water surface until the ice knocked a few over. I have added a few more since.

LOL!!! It's funny the lessons that you learn when going through this process. Maybe next time I"ll use the blocks as an anchor and let them float until the get water logged. I could also put three cinder blocks per pallet while stacking them up like this:

Three blocks
Pallet
Three blocks
Pallet
Three Blocks
Pallet

Alot of work, but it would keep them down... maybe.

Also, I cut the pipe about a foot so I could lower the pond a bit. Video below is right after I cut it.

https://youtu.be/oztXjsqyTec

Is it possible embed the video in this post instead of just posting the link?

I place my order for the bulk of my forage base today. They'll be delivering via a truck in the next two weeks. Purchased them from Hartley Fish Farm in Kingman KS.

BG:
800 (2-4")
100 (4-7")

RES:
200 (2-4")
100 (4-7")

FHM - 10,000

10 lbs of crayfish

I'll be adding LMB and HSB next fall to give these guys some rest and relaxation before the madness starts. :-)


Cheers

Sounds like a plan. See how things develop then decided on # and size of predators.

Truck came today and added everything that I mentioned in my previous post besides the crayfish. He only had 3 lbs instead of 10. Didn't get any pics besides the ones below.






Next up is getting a feeder out there!




Cheers!

Exciting time for a new pond owner when the fish are delivered. Did they happen to mention the variety of the crayfish?

He said they were known as the 'northern crayfish' and left it at that. He didnt know the scientific name.

Hindsight is always 20/10 and I probably should've received confirmation before stocking.

Do you know if anybody here has had issues with Hartley Fish Farm?

Thanks