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snrub #504964 04/28/19 12:30 AM
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
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Originally Posted By: snrub
I think Hartleys is a good source of fish. Another positive is the fish will be raised and acclimated specifically for your latitude.

I know Bob Lusk told me in the distant past he has bought a lot of fish from Hartleys back before he had closer sources. Bob told me Hartleys was one of the pioneers in the early fish seller days and he learned a lot from Bus Hartley about handling and hauling fish when he was a young fisheries biologist. Bob told me to get my SMB from Hartleys.

Hartley Fish Farm

His sons run the operation now.

My SMB for my RES/SMB pond came from Hartleys as they are one of the few suppliers of SMB. I also had them bring 100 LMB for my sediment pond that I have recently been catching and transferring to my main pond and those fish seem to have done fine. Actually it was Jerry Hartley and a younger fella I forget the name who delivered the fish.

I suspect at least some of my original stocking fish for my main pond that I got through Wallace Fish Farm came from Hartleys but am uncertain of that.

I thought those might be Northern crayfish but that is why I ask. I believe that is a native species for both our areas.

Thread on types of crayfish

PDF download Crayfisn in Kansas


I can verify its a Northern Crayfish


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Snipe #505004 04/29/19 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Snipe
There "is" some vertical barring on the 2 little guys-definitely some greenie there, maybe mostly though. The larger looks to be a GSF Female..


Thanks! I'll try and get some better pictures.

blavis #505114 05/01/19 09:00 AM
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Wichita KS received 2" of rain over the past 24 hours. I took this video last night and I am about a foot from full pool this morning!

https://youtu.be/htCEmOSdmKc

Cheers!

blavis #505267 05/03/19 01:40 PM
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https://youtu.be/EKPXdRKUAc0

POND IS FULL!

Can I get an I.D.?


blavis #505272 05/03/19 02:31 PM
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Looks like a green sunfish to me.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
blavis #505274 05/03/19 02:52 PM
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GSF.

Green sunfish. Healthy one.


John

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blavis #505283 05/03/19 05:49 PM
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Well S*$!T.

It looks like I have mostly trapped GSF since they all look similar to the last pic. I stock RES and BG last fall and wasnt expecting to have a 'problem' so soon. I do have two ponds up stream that they probably came from. I have only seen ONE FHM this year, is it probable that the GSF are hitting the FHM out of existence?

I was going to wait until Fall to stock HSB and F1 LMB so my BGs could have a few spawns and get established. Do I stick to my plan now that GSF are very present?

I'm going to order me a casting net and see if I can't get a better idea of what I have.

Thanks.

blavis #505285 05/03/19 06:34 PM
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GSF have a way of sprouting right out of the ground. I don't have another BOW anywhere near me and they showed up before it was even half full.

Dont get too distraught. Their spawning habits aren't near as prolific as BG. Last year they were over 50% of anything I caught in my traps. This year they're less than 10%. Once you stock your LMB, they'll become food very quickly due to their fusiform.

I'm one of many who have come to admire them. They usually bite when nothing else will and put up a decent fight. My oldest fish are around 9", but doubt seriously they'll get much bigger. They'll also help out a little with BG crowd control by targeting the smaller recruits, and believe me, your bass will have plenty to eat.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
blavis #505286 05/03/19 07:13 PM
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Here is my journey with the GSF.

100% GSF

The damage they will do to your stocking plan depends on how thick they are, how big they are in relationship to the size of the fish you stock.

If the GSF get a head start enough to have big enough mouths to eat the size of the fish you stock, they can devastate a stocking plan. Do some fishing with a #10 or smaller hook tipped with a tiny bit of worm or a Gulp product. Small bait small hook. See what you catch and how big it is.

In my unwashed opinion you either need to up your stocking date if the GSF are very small or if you stock later stock only advanced sizes large enough the GSF can't eat them. Figure a GSF has the same size gape as a LMB the same length. In the thread link I provided I have a picture of a GSF that swallowed a FHM that was 2/3 the length of the GSF with the tail slightly hanging out its mouth.

A baited minnow trap will catch GSF really well. If you want to catch slightly larger ones enlarge the opening from the standard 1" to about an inch and a half. Put parallel to shore line in a foot to two foot depth.

The fish you are holding can easily eat a FHM. The picture I posted was of a fish about 2/3 that size as I recall. If you have a lot of those size and larger, you could loose a lot of the fish you stock if they are only 2". If you go to a 4" size BG to stock, it would take a pretty good size GSF to eat them, though you may already have some that size.

Last edited by snrub; 05/03/19 07:19 PM.

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blavis #505292 05/03/19 09:16 PM
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Good information John. The way GSF feed is one reason I have accepted their presence. With limited numbers of predators, they do a pretty good job of helping to keep my YOY BG numbers in check. I kinda wish I had a few more of them. My trapping numbers have indicated their population may have decreased a bit.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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I don't worry about them in my main pond at all. If I catch a small one I will clip the tail off and feed it to the LMB or CC. If I catch a nice one over 8" I will return it to the water to see if I can grow a big one.

Once you have a good population of LMB, the GSF don't seem to be a problem, at least in our area.

The problem they cause is when they jump the gun on stocking a new pond and end up dominating the pond. Then the fish that get stocked just become expensive snacks for the GSF.


John

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blavis #505346 05/04/19 10:42 PM
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I guess I got lucky that their numbers didn't get too high before Harvey gave the pond a good flush. The BG have definitely taken over the place.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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I turned around my old refurbished pond (that was over run with GSF) in a couple years by simply stocking a few hundred 3-5" BG that were too big for the GSF to eat. Now BG dominate the pond with modest levels of GSF still present.

I was fortunate that I had a surplus of that size BG from my main pond to transfer so did not need to buy any of the more expensive, harder to source, larger BG.

The larger BG are more expensive to buy, but if I had a GSF problem pond and needed to stock BG, I would much rather buy a few hundred advanced size BG over say 2000 2" BG. The larger BG would not get eaten and would soon be pumping out tens of thousands of BG fry.


John

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blavis #505357 05/05/19 10:37 AM
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That's pretty much what I did too. Only bucket stocking 4-5" BG on a much smaller scale. Now I'm having to trap out some smaller BG to supplement the lack of predators. All GSF get returned to the pond.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
blavis #505373 05/06/19 09:51 AM
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Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. When it is time, I'll end up stocking the larger sized LMB and HSB to avoid expensive snacks for the GSF. I'll also make sure to stock larger BG as well at the same time.

Went fishing yesterday with my two boys (4 & 7) and had a blast. They loved it and were begging for more this morning! Noticed either a school of FHM or Golden Shiners, so that's a good sign.


Perty sure I caught a BG finally! Confirm I.D. please!!!


Also caught three "cats" (please I.D. below) that I am worried about. Definitely didn't stock them, but when I drained the pond two years ago they were there. I couldn't get an I.D. back then because of the muck. Caught them using small pieces of worm on a bobber about a foot under water (total depth was probably 3-4 feet).

Thoughts? Concerns?






GSF:


BG?:

Last edited by blavis; 05/06/19 11:17 AM.
blavis #505375 05/06/19 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: blavis

Also caught three cats (please I.D. below) that I am worried about. Definitely didn't stock them, but when I drained the pond two years ago they were there. I couldn't get an I.D. back then because of the muck. Caught them using small pieces of worm on a bobber about a foot under water (total depth was probably 3-4 feet).

Thoughts? Concerns?


I think the 'cats' are bullheads, unfortunately.


"Politics": derived from 'poly' meaning many, and 'tics' meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
DrLuke #505377 05/06/19 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: DrLuke


I think the 'cats' are bullheads, unfortunately.


Agreed, I believe cats have a more forked tail vs. the rounded version in your pictures. I assume yellow bullhead (?) based only on the coloration, but admittedly have very little knowledge of the difference in bullhead species.

blavis #505385 05/06/19 02:34 PM
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LMB will do a pretty fair job of cleaning house on bullhead, and yes, those are bullhead.

Snipe #505386 05/06/19 03:08 PM
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BH, BH, GSF, BG

Some people like bullheads. Most don't. Some people like GSF, most don't.

If you want a general purpose fishing pond without lofty specific goals you can manage around them. The GSF can be a problem if you are still planning on stocking more fish. You need to make sure whatever you additionally stock are large enough so the GSF will not eat them. GSF are very aggressive predators with a mouth size matching LMB inch for inch of length.

A good LMB population will control both BH and GSF over time (a few years). A good population of BG will out spawn GSF and dominate the pond eventually also if the GSF numbers are high.

The further north the more the GSF seem to be hated. More south they are more just a way of life and common to a lot of ponds.

Last edited by snrub; 05/06/19 03:16 PM.

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blavis #505389 05/06/19 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: blavis
Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. When it is time, I'll end up stocking the larger sized LMB and HSB to avoid expensive snacks for the GSF. I'll also make sure to stock larger BG as well at the same time.

Thoughts? Concerns?


I'm no expert but it would seem to me to be prudent to stock the large BG a season or so before adding LMB to make sure they had enough BG of the right size to eat.

blavis #505391 05/06/19 04:53 PM
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Thanks for confirming what I assumed. I am going to buy a cloverleaf trap and start trying to remove the BHs. I am assuming that my FHM population isn't going to last that much longer since there are GSF and BH in the pond.


Now what?

1. Wait until early Fall to stock LMB/HSB along with some FHM?

2. Get the feeder up and going to beef up the BG population in prep for the fall stocking? I already have a bag of Optimal BG at the house.

3. Move the LMB/HSB stocking up.

4. Any suggestions from ya'll?

I appreciate the time and effort you guys put into this forum, THANK YOU!!!!!!!


Cheers!

Bocomo #505392 05/06/19 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bocomo


I'm no expert but it would seem to me to be prudent to stock the large BG a season or so before adding LMB to make sure they had enough BG of the right size to eat.


Absolutely! That's why I stocked BG last year, including sizes that were ready to spawn immediately. The plan was to wait a year to stock LMB, which I think is still the plan.

I didn't plan for GSF and BH to be so abundant.

blavis #505393 05/06/19 05:30 PM
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I dont want to be a pessimist but I have two cloverleaf traps. One I even made the entrance wider to let bigger fish get in. I have yet to catch a single BH in my traps. Not even FRY/YOY. I wish you luck tho. The only way I've been able to catch any is with hook and line. They're usually pretty eager to play.

They do work well on GSF tho. Dry dog food in a plastic bottle punched full of holes works well. So do bread slices and flour tortillas.

Last edited by Mike Whatley; 05/06/19 05:32 PM.

.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
snrub #505399 05/06/19 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: snrub
....Some people like bullheads. Most don't. ....


IMO Don't fret too much on having BH until you've tried eating them. Personally, I consider BH good eating. From the time I was old enough to bait my own hook back in the 60's on the Flat Rock river in Indiana, we cherished these "catfish" for a fish fry. We cleaned them by skinning and left them on the bone. Soak in salt water brine over night, roll in cornmeal and fry. To this day, if I catch a reasonable size BH he goes in the bucket for the next fish fry!


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blavis #505402 05/06/19 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: blavis
Originally Posted By: Bocomo


I'm no expert but it would seem to me to be prudent to stock the large BG a season or so before adding LMB to make sure they had enough BG of the right size to eat.


Absolutely! That's why I stocked BG last year, including sizes that were ready to spawn immediately. The plan was to wait a year to stock LMB, which I think is still the plan.

I didn't plan for GSF and BH to be so abundant.


I'm not going to make a specific recommendation because I just don't have the experience. But I will say that I fed my BG in my main pond, stocked them early March then the LMB that fall. My BG took off and did so well they actually prevented my LMB from spawning or at least none of the LMB fry survived. So I have had to grow out some additional LMB in an adjacent sediment pond up to a size my existing LMB would not eat and supplement my LMB stocking.

The point is, at least in my case, there is such a thing as the BG doing so well in their spawn that they can overwhelm the LMB and prevent successful LMB spawns. I think my situation is the exception rather than the norm, but such things can happen.


John

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