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Guys I need to guidance on how to quickly restore the population of bluegills in my 1.25 acre, southeastern Iowa pond. My end goal for the pond is to have a sustainable group of excellent 9+ inch male bluegill, some catchable 15-20" bass and the occasional decent crappie. Details on the pond can be seen here: http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=462759#Post462759I currently have a very aggressive and healthy population of severely stunted 4-5" bluegills, 4-6" crappies and 8-10" yellow bullheads. We plan to seine the pond in the spring to remove the bullhead and get a better overall idea of the numbers of fish. I have access to a couple other private ponds and can bucket stock 15-18" bass, and some mature bluegills in the spring. My question is, what would be the proper number of bass to stock in this pond to help create my goal bluegill population? How many mature bluegills should I add this spring? Should I add some mature crappie or just let my existing group of stunted crappie grow to size? Should I consider any other species of fish to balance out my pond? This pond hasn't been stocked since the 1970's and hasn't been "managed" since around the same time.
Last edited by Matzilla; 01/27/17 11:00 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
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In my long term experience doing stuff like this it will take years to accomplish your goal as you have it planned - probably 6-8yrs. Then you will still have a substandard fishery due to what the basis of the fish you are starting with. The current issue of PBoss mag has a very good article why not to use bucket stocked LMbass if bass are really important for your fish goal. PBoss Jan-Feb 2017 "Will Stunted Bass Grow", pg 30-32. A quote from the article: " Its not the fish that get you where you want to go. It's how you plan & implement your strategy that will hit the target". Also "If the goal is to grow huge BG, it's more appropriate to stock the pond properly in the beginning." In a hurry mix sizes of forage fish and feed them; both will quickly speed the process.
Quickest way to achieve your goal is to 'bite the bullet' drain it down, renovate and restock. It will cost some money, but what is your time and a successful fishery worth to you?? In three years you can have your goal of 9" BG, 16" bass, some 16"-18" HSB, and crappie (either BCP or hybrids at 9"-12"long). Pond management is all about choices and its now your choice to make.
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Here is the place I started to grasp the idea of a small ponds and managing bluegill.... http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=189988It sounds like you have a couple of extreme options (or something somewhere in between - that's my disclaimer) Kill the pond and start from scratch. OR Start seining and removing the bullheads and any larger bass (anything over 14") Larger bass eat larger BG and keep the BG from getting big. If you have no bass, stock LMB that are big enough to not be eaten by the fish you do have. Too many BG breed way too many more bluegill and fill the pond with biomass cutting into the available food sources, stunting all the fish. So, you may need to remove a lot of smaller BG too. Removing the bullheads will also help reduce the biomass leaving more food for the more desired BG. Here is another great read on the BG subject... http://bigbluegill.com/forum/topics/why-everything-you-know-about-bluegill-management-is-wrong
Last edited by Quarter Acre; 01/27/17 11:25 AM.
Fish on!, Noel  
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Matzilla, unfortunately, there is no chance of removing all the bullheads by seining.
I would strongly suggest a draining, sterilization with Hydrated lime, and restocking. It would not be difficult to lower the pond as low as possible and selectively save several fish to restart with, but needs to be well planned for sizes and numbers kept.
I recently drained, sterilized, removed/rehomed dozens of large Koi and restored a church pond in Tulsa for under $2K. Seining a fishing pond is usually extremely difficult, if not impossible due to the usual structure present, not to mention a foot to feet of sludge, muck, and soft clay in the lowest parts of the basin.
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All the effort to EFFECTIVELY remove the required fish and then round-up the ADEQUATE fish for supplimental stocking will take time. You will find as I did numerous years ago, that selectively removing specific individuals is a real challenge if not just about impossible with them spawning and with a full pond that has half-way decent habitat. Existing pond fish are notorious at avoiding capture. I doubt you can do it adequately to achieve your full goals in 2-3 yrs. Then you need to restock and wait for your fish to re-balance and grow to meet your goals.
Keep good records on paper and with pictures, so if you succeed "your way" it will make a wonderful story for PondBoss magazine. LUSK will help you write it. All you need are the good harvest - restock records and the before, during, and after pictures.
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Bill, and others... wouldn't it matter what is in the upper pond that may drain into his?
So Matzilla, what is in the pond above you?
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thanks for the advice guys! Unfortunately at this time the association has not set aside any funds for the pond - they'r more interested in improving the trail and building a floating dock for fishing. I don't think draining the pond at this time will be viable as I'm basically on my own.
When the upper pond property was for sale a few years back the realtor told us it was stocked with bluegill, crappie, bass and catfish. that pond was built with a stand off drain and an emergency spillway, mine uses a siphon drain for what its worth.
So far this winter I've thinned the bluegills by 50+ by ice fishing and should be able to remove plenty more before ice out.
I'm more interested in having a quality bunch of bluegill over bass. I figured if I could get some decent bulls on beds and thin the stunted population it might be possible to increase the overall average bluegill size over time. There are two local strains of bluegills I can use to supplement the pond with; both are extremely aggressive feeding and fast growing. I also have no problem getting appropriately sized bass and HSB from local waters. Right now the only predators are GBH
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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If draining is not an option, IMO it sounds like it would be easier at this point to make it a pond for nice LMB and HSB, at least for a few years. You report the BG and CP (Do you have black or white crappies?) are stunted so I suspect they will never go ahead and grow to large size. I will be surprised if you can remove enough angling and seining to really change that stunted dynamic. I would think the addition of 24/7 anglers like LMB and HSB will stand a better chance of reducing the stunted herd in a few years. Do you have budget to buy some good 8 to 10 inch LMB and HSB (Bigger stockers if you have the budget) for stocking? IMO Just bucket stocking a few will take a long time to get results and you will know nothing about your stocker genetics or health.
IMO adding more BG now will do more harm than good. BG stunt due to lack of food. I suspect if you try to stock new ones now they will suffer the same fate of stunting as you would be just providing more mouths to feed on an already over burdened forage base. IMO you need to get the pond population/balance back to a place the pond has the capacity to support. You need predators and I would remove every BG and crappie caught. The LMB will spawn and provide you with more anglers as time goes by. I would keep records of quantity and size of BG and crappie caught. Once you see a trend that the BG and crappie are getting bigger and you are catching less of them, consider it may be time to start harvesting some of your 14 inch and larger LMB.
Just my 1 cent
Bill D.
Last edited by Bill D.; 01/27/17 08:08 PM. Reason: After thought
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Matzilla, unfortunately, there is no chance of removing all the bullheads by seining.
I would strongly suggest a draining, sterilization with Hydrated lime, and restocking. It would not be difficult to lower the pond as low as possible and selectively save several fish to restart with, but needs to be well planned for sizes and numbers kept.
I recently drained, sterilized, removed/rehomed dozens of large Koi and restored a church pond in Tulsa for under $2K. Seining a fishing pond is usually extremely difficult, if not impossible due to the usual structure present, not to mention a foot to feet of sludge, muck, and soft clay in the lowest parts of the basin. What he said. 4 times in the last 2 years, I've seined, drained, reseined, and then completely drained my 1/4 acre pond to the muck, and every time there are dead fish from the hydrated lime. It takes only a small gap anywhere the net touched the bottom to allow fish to escape. Even a fallen limb on the bottom of the pond will create a gap that fish can escape by.
AL
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Matzilla - Give your plan a shot and keep us informed as to your monthly progress reports. We might able to provide more advice based on your updated results. If you are truly interested in big BG, I would add LMB-HSB until they stunt and stop growing due to not having enough to eat. At that point the remaining BG-BCP should be showing gains in length and weight.
Since you have bullheads, you are sure you have BG and not green sunfish nor hybrid bluegills? Pictures? Just checking for verification.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/27/17 07:44 PM.
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Great info guys!!! I really appreciate all of the excellent ideas. I'll definitely start keeping a log of what goes in, what comes out, and what gets caught..with pictures lengths, etc. I'll start tagging what goes in as well. Here are some pictures crappie  bluegill  bluegill  one of the 5 8" + males I dumped in last weekend  Summer, fall, and winter those are the average sizes for the bluegills and crappie I'll be on the ice again tomorrow to fish and get some more pictures
Last edited by Matzilla; 01/27/17 08:43 PM.
Mat Peirce
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Good pics. The first one answers my question as to what kind of crappie you have. They are Blacks (BCP) and that one looks stunted to me as well with that big eye. If you stock the 15 to 18 inch LMB you were talking about, they will think you are their best friend for dropping them in with a bunch of those little guys!  FWIW The other pics look like BG to me.
Last edited by Bill D.; 01/27/17 09:18 PM. Reason: After thought
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As you add the larger bass watch the BG density and as their numbers decrease and growth of remaining BG increases toward the larger one pictured above. At that point many of the smaller BG should be low density and catch rates of the noticeably decreased. Then go in and harvest a good number of those larger bass to allow the remaining BG to resume growth. You want a few larger bass but too many will eat too many 4"-5" BG and not leave enough BG to produce a good crop of large BG. It is definitely a balancing act. Watch your catch rates and as things improve and the size structure shifts more larger BG will show up in your catch records. As that happens remove many of the large bass and start protecting mostly smaller bass 9"-13" who will be eating 2"-3" BG to keep the numbers of them thinned and remaining ones growing. It is rather difficult to have both big BG and good numbers of large bass because too many large bass will be cropping too many of the BG at 5"-7". You want those 5"-7" BG to grow into the 8"-9" category as the older ones die and are harvested. I think it is proven that 25%-36% of the biggest oldest BG (9"+) naturally die each year if they are not harvested. Read through the Harvesting BG in the archives for more information about natural mortality of old BG. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=273316#Post273316A web search of mortality of adult BG may provide more information.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/27/17 10:00 PM.
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Lots of us interested in your project Matzilla. Please keep us up to date on what you do and your progress.
You may already know this, but you can mark this thread by putting it on your "watch list". Then just make this your permanent thread to add all your progressive new information.
If you do not have it on your watch list and it goes for a week or two without adding anything it becomes very hard to "find" your old thread to add new things.
Under "my stuff" you can also find your old posts, but if you become very active on other threads this list can get long also. The watch list is the easiest for me to keep track of threads I am interested in, both my own threads and those of others.
Just a tip on making the forum easier to use.
Welcome to PBF.
John
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You may already know this, but you can mark this thread by putting it on your "watch list". Then just make this your permanent thread to add all your progressive new information.
If you do not have it on your watch list and it goes for a week or two without adding anything it becomes very hard to "find" your old thread to add new things.
Under "my stuff" you can also find your old posts, but if you become very active on other threads this list can get long also. The watch list is the easiest for me to keep track of threads I am interested in, both my own threads and those of others.
Just a tip on making the forum easier to use.
Welcome to PBF. Good tip snrub. Lots can benefit from this, even veterans. I have often thought there should be some place to list/find all usefull tips on using the forum. Like yours, and ways to search info, and photos, etc. I see there is one for photo upload, but it has one thread!!!!!!!!!! Kind of a joke. There has been lots of posts on how to do photos. Perhaps expand that one some more to include other hep, or put it under PB guidelines? It don't really belong in the archives of pond questions, but some place for newbie to EASILY find help. Just rambling......sorry for getting away from the topic.
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As you add the larger bass watch the BG density and as their numbers decrease and growth of remaining BG increases toward the larger one pictured above. At that point many of the smaller BG should be low density and catch rates of the noticeably decreased. Then go in and harvest a good number of those larger bass to allow the remaining BG to resume growth. You want a few larger bass but too many will eat too many 4"-5" BG and not leave enough BG to produce a good crop of large BG. It is definitely a balancing act. Watch your catch rates and as things improve and the size structure shifts more larger BG will show up in your catch records. As that happens remove many of the large bass and start protecting mostly smaller bass 9"-13" who will be eating 2"-3" BG to keep the numbers of them thinned and remaining ones growing. It is rather difficult to have both big BG and good numbers of large bass because too many large bass will be cropping too many of the BG at 5"-7". You want those 5"-7" BG to grow into the 8"-9" category as the older ones die and are harvested. I think it is proven that 25%-36% of the biggest oldest BG (9"+) naturally die each year if they are not harvested. Read through the Harvesting BG in the archives for more information about natural mortality of old BG. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=273316#Post273316A web search of mortality of adult BG may provide more information. Great info Bill So will his stunted BG, or their offspring, have the capability to produce "Big" BG in the future or does he need to stock new BG with good genetics once the current BG population is brought into line?
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I don't have lots of experience with adding growth to stunted BG. Keep in mind that a stunted fish is older but smaller. For it's age the lost growth will never be reclaimed compared it other same age well fed fish. A regrowing fish that was stunted will never reach the full potential size before it dies.
IF it were my pond, I would add some new BG genetics to stimulate the pond's BG gene pool. It is a tricky balance to not allow the BG to overpopulate and overeat the natural food base. It involves understanding carrying capacity and keeping the BG density low enough so all sizes of BG keep growing at their optimum. Feeding high quality fish pellets helps maintain good fast growth when BG density tends to get too abundant for the natural food production. Population management is very important for maintaining a high quality BG fishery.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/28/17 08:08 PM.
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What would you guys suggest for the initial stock of 9-13" LMB? I shouldn't have any issues finding plenty of bass in that size range but I need an idea of how many to add to the pond at ice out so they can start picking off these stunted fish. As an alternative to the LMB, how many and what size HSB would be beneficial?
I've added this thread to my watch list and will continue to post updates.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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There is no single correct answer on renovating populations. It depends on many factors. If it does not work you can start over. Given the situation I would try to add 25-30 lbs of LMB between 12 and 16 inches. Watch to see if they spawn !
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Be extra careful to not crowd them into a hauling container. Just because a fish readily swims away does not mean it survives especially when it has been jaw jerked out of a pond and then held then transported. Often they will die of handling stress several days later and often not float. Based on your hauling capability, I would not haul more than a few at a each time. It is much better to have a few of them survive than have several die a latent death. Time, effort, and a quality bass was wasted. Remember a bass typically eats a BG 1/3rd and less of its length. 1/3rd the length are normally the largest ones. Select bass that correspond to the length of your most common stunted BG. LMB 14" long are going to target 3"-4" actual measure forage BG. Do some collecting and measuring of your most common forage sizes then select your appropriate bass. It is a big stressor for a bass to be jaw jerked, held, and transported to an entirely different habitat and overall water chemistry. Many never survive the transplant adjustment process despite not later floating. They are often bucket stocked later the owner says what happened to all those bass??? They grew up in one type of habitat and now have to adjust with added stressors to entirely new location. Remember it is best to hold and haul the bass in some salt water to maintain a healthy slime coat which protects them from disease, fungus, and parasites. Every pond has its own unique accumulated inherent set of latent disease, fungal spores, and parasites. There are past posts here about good amounts of non-iodized salt concentrations for hauling fish. I found this that I often use. Add salt (non-iodine) 0.67 oz per gallon of water. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=307088#Post307088Adding Salt to reduce fish hauling stress http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=207116
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/30/17 07:17 PM.
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The salt is interesting and I will start using that method for sure! right now transporting isn't too bad with the colder water temperatures but I know once things warm up its much harder to keep fish lively. The ice is coming off most bodies of water in my area now so this will likely be the last week I can safely walk across the pond.
Mat Peirce
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If possible when you catch the LMB , assuming you can catch a lot of them , then to start select the best conditioned LMB to transport. Don't just keep and transport every skinny LMB you catch. Be selective if possible.
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I will definitely be as choosy as possible when it comes to selecting some additions to the pond, not only in terms of bass but all fish. My two oldest sons and I added a small cedar tree for cover in the 7-13' drop off yesterday and I took a few pictures of my inlet and outlet. This is the outlet of the upper pond which feeds my pond  A good friend is a civil engineer specializing in green methods to reduce sedimentation and improve water quality. He has suggested adding a shallow settling basin at the inlet and line it with as much rock and gravel as possible to help control any erosion and siltation. This is the standpipe along my dam - it took a while to find as it is nearly impossible to see from the ice  Here is the outlet from my dam  We added this cedar tree to provide some overwintering cover - the pond is completely void of any cover deeper than 5'  There were no signs of the large bluegill I bucket stocked being belly up, not to say they didn't sink and aren't sitting on bottom haha If all goes well I will either be ice fishing the pond later this afternoon to remove stunted fish or bucket stocking some more large bluegill from other private ponds.
Mat Peirce
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LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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The smaller BG will generally not use the cover that is deeper than 5ft. Shallow water is instinctively the refuge zone for small fish. Consider anchoring the cedar tree close to shore parallel or perpendicular; butt or tip end on bank for optimum performance for refuge, if fish refuge is your goal.
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Put the trees Bill suggested about 30 feet from the BG nesting area for fry to easily hide in.
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I have plenty of preexisting dead falls in the 1-8' range but there is absolutely 0 over wintering cover in the pond so adding the cedar (and more) will be vital. I caught and removed 18 stunted bluegill yesterday afternoon knowing it might be the last day to safely ice fish the pond this season.
Mat Peirce
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If you have stunted BG you have a very steep slippery fish management hill to climb.
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To add a little bit to this conversation:
Yes, this would make a good story for Pond Boss magazine. I'm interested in that.
Regarding the fishery, I'll sum up what everyone is telling you via their words and links.
1) You need some bass to minimize bluegill reproduction to decrease survival rates and competition for food among bluegills.
2) Stunted bluegills (or any fish, for that matter) won't grow to its potential.
3) Just because a fish is "stunted" doesn't mean it will have "stunted" babies. It won't. "Stunting" from overcrowding is not inherited. It's environmental.
4) Adding new bluegill is a good idea to get young blood into the system.
5) Start a supplemental feeding program with a good quality feed, once water temperature is above 60 degrees. You'll soon see the "feed hogs" coming on a regular basis. Those fish have the best potential to reach your goals quickly.
6) Seining isn't a good idea. But, trapping is. You can set several traps. Both bluegills and bullheads readily come to baited traps.
7) Stock redear sunfish. I noticed yellow grubs in your bluegills. They'll help minimize that.
8) As you feed and cull, you'll start seeing a percentage of bluegills outgrowing the rest. Those fish are your best fish...for that pond. Keep them in the pond. If you're really serious, weigh and measure bluegills as you go to figure out body condition, so you'll absolutely know when fish of certain lengths are out-performing other fish of that size.
9) This is a cool project. Keep good records of what you stock, what you cull, when you do it, etc. You'll benefit quite a few people with a good set of records that can be produced into a story for the PondBoss magazine. The editor or one of his staff can readily help you with putting together the story. PS - Take a few before, during, and after pictures.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/07/17 12:32 PM. Reason: added a postscript.
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You guys have been a great help! Today I transfered 4 more male bluegills over 8" to the pond - 5 gallon bucket, 4 gallons of water and salt added per the wonderful recommendations! I'm patiently waiting for the ice to come off the pond before I stock some bass to clean house on the smaller, overpopulated bluegills and black crappie. Here is the largest male that went into the pond today - 9 1/4"  The shorelines are starting to thaw, my secondary feeder creek has thawed, and it appeared as if the upper pond was dumping a bit more water than last week with the 60 degree temps today. Water quality was still excellent! I'm going to draft up a stocking plan and a log tonight to help keep detailed records. Bob thanks for the suggesting to trap the runt fish. My 3 sons and I can make a fun project of building a trap and maintaining it in the pond. I'm sure they'll love helping out! I need to get ahold of the HOA president soon to see if they can fund a dock build this year. If I get a dock on the pond it will be much easier to hand feed the fish. I need to add some signage to the pond so other folks don't start removing the larger stocked bluegills. Does anyone know of a good source for RES in Eastern or Southeastern Iowa???
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Lots of good advice above.
The one thing I can add is to get yourself elected to the HOA.
Then prevail!
It works.
I know from experience. I've done it in several HOAs.
One week from today I'm going to be putting grass carp in a decorative pond next to our HOA clubhouse. When we bought here about three years ago, one could almost walk across that pond during the summer due to American pondweed. We are adjacent to a golf course so it receives incredible levels of nutrients. I've slowed that. I got rid of most of the chemicals. This is the next step.
Make your voice heard. Come here for advice.
Ken
P.S. I'm writing this from our "snowbird" home on a North Carolina island. I don't have these issues at our home in WV.
Last edited by catmandoo; 02/11/17 07:40 PM. Reason: Added P.S.
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catmandoo they asked me to be the president at the last meeting and I kindly declined - looking back I should have ran with it! Its an easy going bunch of folks so things should run fairly smoothly for the most part. My wife bought me a tagging gun and tags for Valentines Day so I'll start tagging and clipping fish to keep better records. Here is my stocking plan for 2017 - any comments, concerns, or suggestions?  Multiple entries per species represent the different bodies of water the fish will be sourced from
Last edited by Matzilla; 02/15/17 05:51 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Here's a picture of the first tagged bluegill to go into the pond...hopefully the ice comes off tonight with the rain we're getting. Saturday the pond was still 2/3 iced up  I will be getting some bass to stock in the next couple of weeks
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Hall of Fame
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Matzilla, that golden color along the bottom of the BG is beautiful
1 ac pond LMB, BG, RES, CC 
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is that tag backwards?
Cody note- It also looks like the tag is inserted backwards, unless it a some sort of new tag style. The T on the outside looks as if it would snag weed leaves and stems and could hinder swimming and maneuvering.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/21/17 10:01 AM.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
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It looks backwards but it's just the angle of the tag in the photo...so far the bluegill I've stocked have come from extremely clear water sand pits. The bluegills have some amazing colors and are typically very aggressive feeders. I hope they thrive in my pond!
Though my pond finally iced out in the last week, it's a bit too cold for me to open water fish again this weekend. I'm hoping to get a couple SMB and LMB transferred in the coming weeks, weather permitting
The tag gun is simply a clothing tagger with small sized needle and 1.5" clear tags
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I went down to the pond yesterday to bale water from both boats and get them moved to the trail access. I also spent a little time fishing and caught one of the stocked bluegill. It looks like something had gotten ahold of him by the dorsal fin. I haven't seen many GBH or diving ducks around lately   Water clarity is still very good with 4-5' of visibility, vegetation is starting to grow around the shorelines and the turtles were quite content sunning themselves on the deadfalls
Last edited by Matzilla; 03/20/17 08:46 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Clarity has been reduced to about 2' after lots of spring rains the last two weeks. My 2-5' depth zone is springing vegetation surprisingly quick. I will pull some for a sample soon. I'm also going to make a secchi disc for clarity measurements. Some of the other hoa members were fishing and caught a few stunted bluegill and removed 5 bullheads for me. I placed sings at the pond trailhead requesting bullheads not be returned to the pond when caught and all bass and bluegill be returned until further notice. I set a date to transfer some lmb to the pond...pictures will follow
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I added 3 more male bluegill and my first pair of LMB last night - the bass were 8 and 10". I'm hoping to make a fish trap this weekend so I can start catching and removing bullhead from the pond which will be provided to family for flathead bait.    Visibility is still declining and the FA has started to cover about 20% of the pond - I may start raking it this weekend.   I pulled some of the submerged weeds which appear to be curly leaf pondweed.  I've also spotted some american pondweed mixed it. Water temp was 63 degrees in 1 FOW near the south bank
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Curious, how did you sex the male vs female LMB?
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I have no idea the sex of the LMB but the bluegills were for sure males. There are a few bass starting to sun in the shallows around here but they're a few weeks away from building beds yet.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I spent quite a bit of time on the pond Friday afternoon just rowing around and making observations - shallows were 63 degrees surface temp on the north end and 60 on the south. I spotted 6 male LMB fanning out bedding areas. The 3 largest are right around 18". These guys must be native to the pond because the largest I've stocked was spotted on the south side fanning his own little bed. The native bluegill are cruising shallows and I did see a 6" native female cruising around. My curly leaf pondweed is exploding in the shallows and the FA has started breaking up on the surface do to irregular winds. I found a few underwater FA blooms smothering curly leaf on the north end. There are a couple of shallow sand beds where feeder springs dump into the pond. The sand must have been brought in at some point as the creek beds are pure clay all the way down the ravine. We stocked 250-300 FHM from a local source Saturday. Due to work I have to postpone bass stocking and building a trap for the BH this weekend. Here is a shot of my water clarity and pond weed explosion  I need to bring my portable Humminbird Helix 5 to the pond and make a rough contour map while the clarity is still excellent
Last edited by Matzilla; 04/23/17 11:48 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I took my 3 y/o son out today and caught some bluegills to transfer to the pond. So far I'm up to 37 bluegills stocked total with 26 being mature males. All bluegills have been over 7" and of great body condition. I'll keep adding the best of the best that I catch to the pond. I can't wait to add some of the river strain gills to the mix this fall I have a nice algae bloom going on this week with some very turbid water after all of the rains. Things cleared up to 18" of visibility today after being around 6" sunday. Surface tamps have dropped from 63 to 56 degrees. no sign of my male bass with the temperature drop but I'm sure they will be on beds again soon. I still need to get some more 8-12" bass stocked asap. One of the recent males 
Last edited by Matzilla; 05/02/17 03:08 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Saturday my youngest and I went bluegill fishing and ended up landing a healthy 13.75" LMB which we transferred to the pond. My FA is still covering the shore to 5' drop off but the curly leaf is starting to taper off a bit. The warm temperatures recently should be triggering the LMB and BG spawn very soon. I didn't have time to row the boat around and look for beds but its on the to do list for this week.  My older boys never want to fish but my 3 y/o absolutely loves catching fish and transferring them to the pond. I snapped this picture against his wishes - he wanted to get the tags in him first haha we've still been too busy to venture up to my cousins place to catch some of his shorter bass and transfer them down to my pond. Maybe soon! I have started building a cloverleaf trap for bullheads which will go into the pond this week.
Last edited by Matzilla; 05/15/17 11:37 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Matzilla - Will the cloverleaf trap be selective or will you simply hand-cull the bullheads out? Wondering how you keep the bluegill out of the trap. Thanks.
If Though Desire Rest, Desire Not Too Much.
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what kind of tag are you using, looks almost like clothing tags, I thought about just trying those.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
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I'll hand cull the fish stuck in the trap but might use it to help balance out my stunted BCP and BG
The tags are simple clothing tags and I'm using a small, cheap clothing tagging gun. So far it has worked pretty well. You can get tags in many different colors and styles for extremely cheap.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I had a busy weekend at the pond - even with the terrible weather! I got a bag of Sportsmans Choice feed and started hand feeding 1lb/day between 5-6pm. So far I've only see turtles eating the feed. Most of my bluegills and bass roam the other side of my pond which is only accessable via row boat. I'll keep spreading feed daily hoping fish show up. I made a cloverleaf trap to sample some of the pond fish and remove as many bullheads as possible.  So far its worked pretty well - 10 bullheads the first day which were left for the raccoons to eat. I have quite a few folks begging to have them for bait lol  Today I rowed around the pond and did a little fishing and observing. I have a decent amount of frogs but no signs off tadpoles anywhere. Turtles are cruising around and eating well and I did spot a few small bluegill swimming around the inlet. I also spotted some bluegill beds in one of the only non-algae and curlyleaf covered shallows of the entire pond. I caught 9 BG from 4-6" but none of my tagged stocker BG's. I managed to catch a decent native LMB - 16.5" but didn't have a scale with me   I stopped to check my outflow pipe and found the head end 75% clogged with sticks and small logs from recent rains and high winds. I got it cleared and checked the tail end to the creek. I need to come up with a wire fence barrier to keep the debris from reaching the mouth of the overflow.  100% outflow capacity I hope the curlyleaf and FA ease back so my bass and bluegills can get off a decent spawn - at least it is keeping the GBH from eating too many fish in the shallows lol
Last edited by Matzilla; 05/21/17 11:16 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Clearing my outlet has yielded a 12" drop in water level! I saw my first bluegill gulping up feed tonight....I hope others take to the feed soon. My GBH is being Very persistent lately.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I've feed trained my pond!!! I've been hand spreading 1-1.5lbs of pellets each night at 6pm for 10 days. First the turtles started following us around the shoreline and would trail behind the row boat while we pulled the cloverleaf trap. Now I have 12-14" bass eating pellets and maybe 20-30 bluegills have been slowly popping pellets of the surface after it sits for a few minutes. I think the recent explosion of emergent insect hatches has pull the fish to feed on the floating pellets. I have a congregation of 4-6" bluegills feeding nightly in a shallow corner of the pond. They'll dart deep when the feed hits the surface then quickly rise to eat. We've also pulled a handfull of stunted bluegills from the pond along with two dozen bullheads in 10 days. Slow steady progress!!! I also have a nice school of FHM or LMB fry cruising the pond - I haven't seen anything try to eat them yet but it is bound to happen 
Last edited by Matzilla; 05/31/17 10:58 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I'm well over 50 bullheads removed from the pond in the past couple of weeks now. When I feed a little closer to sunset they surface in small groups and I pick them off one at a time with rod and reel. My native bluegills are spawning and so far there's no sign of my stocked large bluegills on beds. Of course, the small native gills built beds completely surrounding my row boat! I have two other large congregations of 4-6" bluegills around the pond but none of those have started fanning out beds yet. The bass are slaughtering mostly staged female BG's near shoreline which is a welcome sight - the males spook out before the bass get close enough to gobble them up.   I'm guessing this BCP is stunted judging his eye to body size - mouth seemed rather small for his body. I released him back to the pond.  Time to start raking the dead curly leaf and FA mats from shore. I'd like to knock down about half of the vegetation off the surface 
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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20 bullheads removed in one day - I'm pulling the trap at 6-7pm nightly and my cousin is pulling it at 6am to stock his bait tank for flathead fishing. I figure for each bullhead removed it makes room for more desirable fish going forward.   My largest colony of spawning bluegills I was lucky enough to spot 3 of my tagged stock female bluegills dropping eggs in a few beds not to far from that large cluster. It was great to see they have survived and are thriving. I haven't spotted any of the large males yet, however.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Good job looks great also right now before they spawn is when you should catchy the 4 to 6 inch bluegills or when the males r on beds. If you can find some cray fish to put in your pond not a lot but 4 dz they really help to nock down weeds and bass love to eat them black crappies eyes are always that big they have great night vision so it still could be stunted
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Looking at that mess of BH I immediately thought of my childhood. A good pair of skinning pliers and a sharp knife and you have an awesome meal.
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Tayten, I have started doing exactly that. Last night I removed 25 3-5" bluegills and will continue to pull as many as possible non breeders going forward. The cedar tree I dropped over the winter has collected an unbelievable amount of fish and provides for quick and easy removal of bluegills. I've also been catching quite a few fat 6-9" crappie off of the cedar. I'm still in desperate need of 8-14" LMB.
Bill, my cousin has been collecting my bullheads for flathead bait this week - so they're no longer going to waste being fed to the raccoons.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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My crappie are feeding on top water bugs extremely well. I've caught several healthy BCP in the 5-8" range in the last few days. I also caught one of my tagged female stocked BG  It was nice to see the tag is still firmly in place but she still has a bit of a sore. I salted the area and released her back to the pond after cleaning the FA from the tag. I pulled out 22 more small bluegills, and 6 more bullheads over the weekend. I release the small bluegills that show male traits.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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it might help if you clip the "fat tip" off it , it seems to be getting snagged in the FA as the fish swims near or in it. maybe even shorten it by cutting it mid way down. It would be less intrusive on the fish
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
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Hi there! We have a lovely pond here on our farm property (2 hours east of Toronto Ontario) which has served us well these last 10 years for swimming and just staring at. A few years ago we had a run on leeches. Most annoying, especially when they attached themselves to visiting kids. So we consulted a fish hatchery guy and he suggested large mouth bass and bluegill and we were delighted to report that the leeches were quickly gone. That was about 4 years ago. Well then we had an abundance of bluegill, a scarcity of bass and very unhappy visiting swimmers who were now being bitten, not just nipped, by the blinking blue gill. The problem continues. We try and net them out and feed them to local barn cats but they reproduce like mad. So now what do we do? Get some huge largemouth bass and keep our fingers crossed that they'll do the killing? We don't want to use rotenone and kill all the other pondlife of frogs and tadpoles. We just want the bluegill gone. Please help. Oh, and we are not fishers. Only own one kid-size fishing rod and wouldn't know how to remove a hook!
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Hall of Fame
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Maresy,
I've never use one but some others use fish traps to remove fish. You should be able to find some threads if you google "pondboss fish traps"
Not sure if they will catch all sizes of bluegill or just smaller???
1 ac pond LMB, BG, RES, CC
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Maresy, If it were me I would just add more Large Mouth Bass. And you are in luck being 2 hours east of Toronto you are near a great Large Mouth Bass fisher, the Bay of Quinte. It is chocked full of 2 to 3 lb Bass.
If you know someone who fishes maybe they can help you out.
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Marsey, the cloverleaf trap on the 2nd page of this thread is very cheap and easy to build. It will catch bluegills with ease if baited and positioned in a decent location in your pond. You can buy similar prebuilt traps here: https://www.reeltexasoutdoors.com/produc...ap-pinfish-trap
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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The bluegill spawn has wrapped up for this round and I found several more visable beds while cruising around the pond yesterday. A recent heavy rain/hail with high winds knocked down nearly all of my FA mats and did a number on the already poor water quality. I should get another decent algae bloom in the next week judging by the green tint to the water and the amount of added nutrients from die off of my remaining curly leaf. I've yet to see any of the bluegill hatch swimming around the pond. My trap has only yeilded 6 bullheads in the last week and I've only seen a 3 surfacing to feed in the evenings when spreading Sportsmans Choice. My bug hatch peaked over weekend and tapered off extremely quickly. Here are a few pictures of the mostly vacated BG beds     I have about 80 beds total all around the pond with roughly 18" diameter being the largest. This should mean the largest spawning males on beds I can see is approximately 6" long. A majority of beds are 10-12" in diameter from 3-4" male BG. I'm guessing my larger males (6-9") have spawned in deeper water or didn't spawn at all?
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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my cousin stopped by last night to fish for flathead bait bullheads and stopped counting at 50 - It is great to have a little help thinning those guys out!!!
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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So far over 550 bullheads have been removed. I'm going to start running the trap again this week.
I got approval from the HOA to stock the pond this fall and Bjornsen Pond Management will be delivering the following:
Largemouth Bass 6 to 8" 175
Walleye - 6 to 8" 50
Hybrid Striped Bass 6 to 8" 100
Yellow Perch 3 to 5" 150
Red Ear Sunfish 3 to 5" 150
I'm also going to change over to Aquamax MVP feed
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Matzilla, That is a pretty diverse set of fish you're stocking. That should make for fun times fishing on the lake
1 ac pond LMB, BG, RES, CC
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I hope so! It should put the pond on the path to being more well balanced and allow the predators to grow fast and say healthy
I also rounded up some volunteers to help cut trees and brush around the pond and continue to make watershed improvements to better water quality
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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My fish are coming Friday!!!
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Matzilla -I've been following your project and am impressed with your commitment. The initial consensus seemed to be that you might be wasting your time, but glad to see you weren't deterred. I also had Kevin stock my pond earlier this yr. Good guy. Where are you located? I'm in Lisbon and would love to visit you if I'm ever around your way.
J Waters
Dam'd Waters Farm
2/3 ac dam'd stream pond
BG, HBG, RES, LMB, YP
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I'm just outside Muscatine, IA along the Mississippi river, you're welcome to come down anytime!
We got all of the fish stocked tonight and I'm pretty darn excited to get them feeding in the spring. The pond is looking pretty decent and the water is very cold due to no direct sunlight in the fall. My weirs are holding up well but we need to do some more watershed improvement to keep knocking down the sediment load.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I stopped down at the pond Sunday to check on things. Caught about a dozen healthy looking black crappie from shore - no bigger than 9" but their bellies were plenty full.
I pulled the cloverleaf trap that I hadn't baited since early October and found 3 live bullheads inside! Fed them to the raccoons.
Water clarity is improving but still not that great.
I have a bunch of property management type work to do in the next few months - cut down all of the brush and saplings I can. We need to haul more rock down to the inlet creeks to cut down on the sediment loading
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Are the "vacated BG [spawning] beds" in dirt or mud? or are they in some sort of sandy/gravel type substance? I can't tell from the photo, but I'm curious if they require a specific bottom material or if they aren't very picky.
Thanks!
/clayton
edit - Nevermind, I think I may have answered my own question by going back to the previous pages of the post. I looks like they beds are in a muddy bottom in another photo.
Last edited by KapHn8d; 11/21/17 07:09 PM.
96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.
We become what we think about.
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Fish know what they like. In my new RES pond I put down various size crushed rock and gravel to provide for nesting. I only had a small number of RES large enough to spawn this year so I only found 4 nests. They were all in the clay mud. The first year in my main pond the BG did not use the nesting area I built. But the second and subsequent years they did.
They make nests where it suits them.
Last edited by snrub; 11/22/17 12:23 AM.
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Totally agree! 99% of those bluegills only spawn in the firm clay/mud and wont touch the small areas of sand around the pond. I kicked around the idea of placing some sand and pea gravel beds around the shoreline while the pond is frozen over this winter but I doubt I get around too it.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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My experience has been that they will find a way. If a perfect substrate is not available, they will try and use the next best thing.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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My guess is the substrate is only part of their criteria.
I do not know, but I imagine maybe prevailing wind, currents (there are currents in ponds), where the sun comes up/sets, nearby vegetation or cover, temperature variations, association to nearby nests.......... plus maybe more than those potential things, could effect where a male decides to make a nest. I know I had nests this year at year 4 of my pond that I had not seen in that area before. At least not shallow enough to see till this year. Some of the GSF and/or hybrids were right up against a bank in 6" of water.
Last edited by snrub; 12/04/17 09:58 PM.
John
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Hi i was hoping for an up date on the pond haven't heard anything in a while.
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I stopped down last weekend and it was frozen over with about 2"-2.5" of ice on my south short, north was probably closer to 1". If time allows I'll ice fish it this weekend now that its over 3". It'll melt down to about 1.5" if the extended forecast for next week holds true.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Hi Matzilla did you get out ice fishing i imagine with this cold weather there was enough ice
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Finally made it down to the pond to check the ice...snow melted (thanks mother nature) and I have 2-3" of slush/ice over 1" of water, over 4-6.5" of hard clear ice. It'll all be solid again this weekend. My feeder creek from the upper pond is frozen mostly solid and backed up.....the surface seep in this area is also frozen, it was wet most of last winter.  Frozen inlet/surface seep spring. This is usually about 18" wide and 3" deep of moving water entering the pond...it still has some flow but its backed up and widened out Rest of the pond  I'll be ice fishing the pond at some point in the next week
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I went to the pond yesterday to do some ice fishing as the snow storm blew in - fished for about 3 hours. I caught 6 crappie from 5-9" - my average size is 7-9" observed fishing the last 6 months.  This was the smallest. The larger fish are much more aggressive and look fairly healthy with thick shoulders. I fed a couple of bullhead to the raccoons  A couple of my 175 fall stocked 6-8" LMB - I caught 4 in all, from 6-10", they're extremely aggressive, roaming with schools of bluegills still, but in fair body condition. They sure didn't have bulging stomachs.   The best part of the day was picking up a couple of my WE   I also bagged well over 20 bluegill from 4-6" which I returned to the pond. Should I be removing bluegill from the pond or should I let nature run its course? I haven't removed any since August when I was running the cloverleaf trap and also catching them on rod and reel.We've picked up another 2" dusting of snow in the last 24 hours, but it is forecast to rain again and be 40+ degrees toward the end of the week. It sure is nice not having to shovel snow off the pond! The ice thickness has increased to 6-8" of solid clear. My primary feeder creek is 90% iced over, as is the feeder creek coming from the upper pond. Flow through the pond has slowed to maybe 1-3 gpm I'm extremely excited for the next year on this pond! The clarity after ice out is going to be a great time to survey the fish in the pond. I can't wait to see the hsb and lmb suface feed on young bullhead lol! It is going to be a fun year of hand feeding and running the cloverleaf
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Should I be removing bluegill from the pond or should I let nature run its course? What are your goals for the fishery? Since you have crappie and bullheads, I would protect all bass and encourage them to be mostly 8"-13" long that eat lots of 2"-3.5" fish. You want lots of smaller bass to be eating lots of small bullhead and crappie if you desire larger harvestable panfish. You could harvest a couple or a few bigger (14"-16") bass each year after the 1st bass spawn (offspring) has grown to 6"-9". By this time the larger bass of 15"-16" will be usually eating larger fish in the 4.5"-5.5" range. You normally want 5" panfish around to fill the gap of harvested 8"-9" panfish. Note: a few HSB will eat numerous small crappie when these small crappie hang out in open water as 1"-2" crappie.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/15/18 04:58 PM.
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Congrats on seeing your hard work pay off! And thanks for the ongoing updates. The knowledge you document is what powers the forum (and of course the input from Mr Cody and the rest of the mods).
"Politics": derived from 'poly' meaning many, and 'tics' meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
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Bill, the pond is enjoyed by the HOA, but out of 40 homes, fewer than 10 fish it. The HOA wanted to have improved fishing for large panfish. A couple of us really want it to be great for ice fishing.
I would like to have a healthy population of great bluegill 7+"
Aggressive but not large LMB that are fun to catch
Bonus WE and SMB (SMB will go in next spring/fall)
Large YP
Large HSB
RES to cut down on parasites
Bullheads will be thinned by predation, fishing, and cloverleaf trap (adding another 1 or 2 next spring). The way I see it for each bullhead removed, 2 bluegill can eat and grow in its place.
My native bass larger than 14" are going to be caught and transferred to a friend's big bass pond in the spring.
Should I help nature along and be removing <5" bluegill now?
Last fall's stocking was...
Largemouth Bass 6 to 8" 175 (most were over 8")
Walleye - 6 to 8" 50
Hybrid Striped Bass 6 to 8" 100 (most were 9-12")
Yellow Perch 3 to 5" 150 (most were 4-5")
Red Ear Sunfish 3 to 5" 150 (most were 3-4")
Total number of lmb was closer to 200 and hsb were 125
I've stocked less than 10 LMB from 9-14", and 50 bluegills over 7" (11 were females)
We removed over 500 bullheads last year, and I removed 75 bluegills (3-4", skinniest by the eyeball test) caught on rod and reel or cloverleaf trap between June and August. I haven't removed any crappie and my largest native lmb (19") died/was eaten by my female snapping turtle.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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.....
Last fall's stocking was...
Largemouth Bass 6 to 8" 175 (most were over 8")
Walleye - 6 to 8" 50
Hybrid Striped Bass 6 to 8" 100 (most were 9-12")
Yellow Perch 3 to 5" 150 (most were 4-5")
Red Ear Sunfish 3 to 5" 150 (most were 3-4")
Total number of lmb was closer to 200 and hsb were 125
I've stocked less than 10 LMB from 9-14", and 50 bluegills over 7" (11 were females)
.....
200 LMB 125 HSB 50 WE and adding SMB in the spring ...... This seems like a lot of predators and potential biomass for a 1.25 acre to me. Is the plan to harvest every thing bigger than 14 inches?
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Are high protein pellets fed? How much each year or daily?
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I'm only going to add 5 SMB or less - all LMB over 14" will be removed from the pond
Bill, last year I fed sportsmans choice, 1lb per day for 3 months. This year I'll be using aquamax mvp at 1lb per day. I hand feed in the evenings when the water temps are over 60
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Few observations FWIW:
Predator density is very high - suspect slow growth on predators due to limited forage availability - routine WR records will dictate your ongoing strategy, but wanted to mention this observation/concern.
Presence of LMB, HSB, SMB, WE [especially considering the density] will make YP recruitment a challenge unless there's significant macrophytes established - they'll suffer high predation rates and you may be facing issue of supplementally stocking adults to keep population.
SMB don't successfully compete with LMB and the will likely be extirpated unless supplementally stocked - which is an option, but you'll likely need advanced fish [8-10"+] to escape LMB predation which are expensive and hard to source.
Per Bill D - consider your carrying capacity for a 1.25 ac bow and what fishery the water can support. I suspect your fishery likely will never be able to support those numbers of adult fish without significant risk to Summer/Winter kill events. Throw in the BH and BG populations and you're beyond recommended allowances/acre without managing water quality intensely.
Just my observations, hope some of it is helpful.
PS: Your frequent updates to chronicle your fishery management experiments are appreciated and thoughtful - love your tenacity removing those BH good job!!!!
Last edited by teehjaeh57; 01/17/18 01:47 AM. Reason: PS
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau ![[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]](http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii582/teehjaeh57/I_subscribe_zps69249d43.gif)
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As per TJ above - That is why when ponds are drained owners usually say "What happened to all the fish I added?"
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TJ and Bill, can you guys elaborate on the high predator density? Prior to stocking I had 20 or less LMB as my predator base. After decades of miss management the BG, BCP and BH population had ran rampant. I added the LMB, HSB, and WE to reestablish a predator base to work toward my goal of having a healthier population of larger BG in the pond. My hopes were the HSB would go a long way toward picking off BH and BCP who dominate the open water areas of the pond currently. The WE are just a bonus, if they live and thrive I'll be happy, if they don't, it is no skin off my back. Did I add too many predators? I honestly do not plan to have any LMB larger than 14" in the pond at any given time.
There is definitely no shortage of forage of all sizes in the pond. In addition to the fish I have a massive population of crayfish, bullfrogs and leopard frogs, a resident population of FHM, and numerous emergent insects.
Reducing the number of BH should increase the carrying capacity of the pond dramatically by reducing their competition with BG, BCP, RES, and YP for food.
As always, this is an interesting discussion and I love all of the advice and points of view as I'm here to learn and share as much as possible!
Last edited by Matzilla; 01/17/18 01:54 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Maybe I missed it but how do you know you had 20 LMB prior to stocking?
Have you done a creel survey with weights and lengths for relative weight determination? It's a great way to find out what your population dynamics are.
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Last fall's stocking was...
Largemouth Bass 6 to 8" 175 (most were over 8")
Walleye - 6 to 8" 50
Hybrid Striped Bass 6 to 8" 100 (most were 9-12")
These are the numbers I was going by. These numbers exceed stocking qty I would recommend - thus the dense predator population comment and my suspicion for slow growth and potential water quality issues due to carrying capacity issues. Again, WR records will dictate your ongoing strategy - I'd continue removing all BCP, BH and stunted BG possible. I suspect you'll begin witnessing stunting with your LMB population - a bottleneck at some size, then start culling those, too. If you have a live creek feeding your pond you'll be cursed with that resident fish population also - those BH came from somewhere. If you don't identify the source and eliminate it the LMB will be helpful for managing those recurring populations.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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Numerous thin bodied slow growing predators are needed when there are problematic fish present such as bullhead, stunted BG, crappie, and possibly other fish migrating from the creek. When a pond has problematic fish present causing fish population balance problems the pond becomes quite a bit harder to manage to achieve ones goals of either high quality panfish or larger predators. I suspect that common carp and green sunfish could eventually also become a problem because carp & GSF are common in most streams.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/17/18 05:49 PM.
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The creek is 600' from its head springs at the top of the ravine, no fish are present in the creek but it is loaded with crayfish. Here is the watershed with creek outlined  and the surrounding area  The upper pond however could have been a source of the BH at some point. Another possibility is stocking - at one point small ponds in Iowa were stocked with a DNR program that included BH. The pond was built with grants from the DNR and was initially stocked by the DNR. I'm fine with stunted bass and large panfish. The only fish I am interested in having quality size would be the BG, YP and HSB. I haven't caught or trapped a GSF in the pond yet, not saying there aren't any but I haven't seen them. Last spring when the clarity was exceptional I counted bass on beds while visiting at least once a day if not twice. I fished the pond very, very hard from June '16 to last summer. I caught 2 native bass. I've spoken with other folks in the HOA who have lived here and fished the pond much longer than I have. There was a guy who admitted to catching and removing every LMB he caught over a 5 year period until he was unable to catch any more. The snapping turtle at atleast 2 of the native bass from the pond over the summer. This is one of the native bass I caught last May I chose the types of fish for stocking but the pond management folks I worked with determined the #'s. They wanted to ladder stock more YP and RES in the spring but I believe the HOA is going to decide on building a dock instead. How many predator fish would you guys have stocked in the pond? How else would you go about managing the pond for my goals?
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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What is done is done predator wise. Now it is your job to monitor and manage the predators based on your goals. Use good catch angling records and make adjustments as the fishery evolves. Feed the fish a high quality fish food if you are interested in harvesting fish for eating or transfer. Otherwise keep numbers at densities where the catch records indicate close to standard weights of the sport fish species. Feeding the fish will more quickly produce more larger harvestable bullheads 11"-13" at 3 yrs old. I've grown bullheads that big in cages in 3 years.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/18/18 10:02 AM.
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Will do Bill! I spent the weekend clearing some brush with my sons - a couple hours each day. The dam is terribly over grown with brush, saplings and trees - no one has touched it in 10+ years. brush pile  you can finally see the pond from the corner of the dam  we have a long, long way to go  Outlet is still an ice funnel, lots of flow from the melting snow and ice  My little helper  We didn't do any ice fishing and the ice might be be unsafe after this string of warm weather blows through the next week. I already had as much as 3" of water on top of the ice.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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very cool great progress what i have learned for trophy pan fish is to limit there numbers by removing them under a certain size when I under stand bass are fun to catch but I would not stock smallies and keep very few large mouth and have HSB and WE be the dominate species as
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Thanks Tayten! I believe 2018 is going to be an extremely busy year at the pond in terms of land/watershed management and continuing to sample, log and remove fish. I can't wait for the rest of this ice to come off - the next two days should accelerate the process dramatically
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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So the way it sound that this pond is open to a like a club???? as it seem like you do most of the work you should talk with those who are leaders and make some rules for the pond to keep it healthy like
No throughing bullheads back
No bring in other fish
No keeping cretin species or cretin size ( walleyes,Hybird strip bass,Large blue gills,Large crappies)
and make limits like only 5 pan fish and when or if they are aloud to keep the other large fish only like one fish of any species at a cretin length.
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Yes, it is our HOA pond on a shared 10 acre lot set deep in a river bluff ravine. I'm the property manager for the lot, I also help maintain and test the two community wells and will be on the board starting in August. We just moved in 2 years ago.
I put up signage last summer with fishing regulations and we've reviewed them in our meetings. The other folks that fish the pond are pretty reasonable, helpful and understanding.
Last edited by Matzilla; 01/26/18 09:50 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Yeah cause would really suck if the fish like the WE and those big gills would be taken out by someone not knowing the pond is being managed
To help with the small bluegill crappie and the bull head problem you could do a kids fishing tournament prizes for biggest bull head most bull head, and most crappie say under 7 inches ,and most bluegills under 6 inches then its work but then with the crappies and bluegills if you got some volunteers they could filet the fish and there could be a shore lunch and then do some raffles and give all the kids a lure. it would get some kids and community involved outdoors and you can teach them about pond management. And I am sure there are some sporting good stores or association that you can ask for donation to help with cost just an idea keep us updated.
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Hi Matzilla any update on the pond thanks
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I've spent the last 2 weeks working 60-75hrs and now have the flu - we have 9" of snow on the ground and another 1-3 forecast in the next 24 hours. I was hoping to make it down there sunday to do some ice fishing
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I'm watching a river of rain water form in my yard now...temps have been 40+ degrees for almost 3 days and the rain is coming down in sheets. 99% of the snow melted yesterday and I wrapped up my ice fishing season on a semi-local lake. Hopefully the pond will be iced out soon so I can get back to work removing brush from the dam.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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i love this thread I really enjoy watching the progress good luck with everythig
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I took my youngest down to the pond today to check on things - he's home with me this week recovering from having his tonsils removed last Friday. The runoff from snow melt and 2" of rain over a 24hr period ran over the south shoreline ice. I have 2-3" of base ice, 4" of runoff water and a skim of ice from today's cold front. I need to clean out the upstream face of my feeder creek weir - its nearly topped with sticks, mud and leaves from fall. These are the two feeders as they confluence just upstream of my primary feeder creek weir - I'm going to add some more low head weirs one of these days to catch heavy rain sediments before reaching the pond....I wish I could just build a small sediment pond in this valley lol  You can see where the runoff ran on top of the pond ice all along the south shore on the left in these pictures   Nasty stuff  There is likely 3-6" of honeycombed ice in all other areas of the pond. The 10 day forecast has a warming trend starting tomorrow that should really start knocking down the ice if it stays sunny.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Looking good Mat. I've been in Austin, TX this week. Can't wait to get back to Iowa to assess my own ice/pond.
J Waters
Dam'd Waters Farm
2/3 ac dam'd stream pond
BG, HBG, RES, LMB, YP
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Quote: "...I wish I could just build a small sediment pond in this valley lol"
Nothing that a trackhoe couldn't fix in about a days work!
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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John, I'm going to look into it and get some estimates this summer
J, get back home safe buddy...lots of crazy weather all over the central states lately!
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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 Ice is coming off nicely! Another week or two and it will be completely open! I saw some YP swimming around today in the shallows and talked to the owner of the upstream pond. His is all catfish and bluegill with 4-6lb catfish and gills topping out at 7". I'm going to provide him with some of my bass once they're above 15"
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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The ice is gone and the water looks pretty decent, not as clear as this time last year but we've had much more rain this year.   perfect picture of how the outlet from the upper pond flows through a shallow wetland and braided creek into my pond. The peninsula on the left is all sedimentation from the primary feeder creek  I'm going to start fishing the pond this week and got permission to access the pond from the upper access road (upper pond is the landowner of the access) to start hauling materials down
Last edited by Matzilla; 03/13/18 08:50 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I spent over 8 hours at the pond with my two oldest sons Saturday clearing brush and trees from the face of the dam - it is looking much, much better but we still have a ways to go! I'm going to clear all trees 6" or less off the backside of the dam too. Most trees are honey locust and black locust...I had to drop the honey locust into the pond because it was too much of a burden to log out.    I caught a couple of bass yesterday but the bite is pretty slow. YP are cruising shallows and I had one follow the row boat for about 40'.
Last edited by Matzilla; 03/19/18 03:12 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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 Stopped by the pond yesterday and paddled my youngest boy around...spotted a few fish cruising shallows. We removed sticks and FA slowing water down at the mouth of the outlet. Pond was about 3" higher than full pool. I have a rocking nice algae bloom going right now and fish are surface feeding bugs like crazy. My curlyleaf is looking very nice, short, only in shallows, only thick in 1 small area - should be perfect this year. FA hasn't exploded yet. We're going to get some rain mid week and I take off for a business trip to California Sunday - I'll start hand feeding pellets when I get back
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I finally made it down to the pond to do some fishing - I had emergency surgery on the 8th and I'm slowly starting to get back in to the swing of things. To my surprise visibility is around 2-3' in spots not covered by curlyleaf and FA - the pond is in great shape! Perfect amount of plant cover, great water quality, good algae bloom while I was away - creek weirs are working excellent to knock down sediment, etc.  I caught 1 bluegill, 6 walleye, 5 bass, and 20+ crappie - silly me forgot a bucket to cull the crappie and I'm still hurting a bit too much to throw them up on bank from the row boat lol - next time I'll bring the bucket This is one of the few female BG I stocked almost 2 years ago at 6-8" - she's grown VERY well and is still extremely aggressive!  
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Hi Mat - sorry to hear you've been slowed down a bit. Pond looks good. You must have some aggrasive BG. Not sure how that one thought it was going to get that lure into it's mouth. LOL!
J Waters
Dam'd Waters Farm
2/3 ac dam'd stream pond
BG, HBG, RES, LMB, YP
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Looks great!
Glad you are recovering nicely.
I am constantly amazed at the size bait even small BG will strike at. I have caught a lot of them with crank baits similar to yours in previous years.
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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haha thanks guys, I pitched that crappie crank on a small FA mat just on the weed edge, twitched it off the mat and that hen just exploded on it - she meant business for sure!
I need to do some top water fly fishing asap
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Matt glad you are recovering
If you just twitch that crappie crank right at dark along the bank I’ve caught lots of crappie.... twitch and stop.... repeat
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Thanks Pat! That's the plan, thin out as many of these crappie as I can this spring while they're easy to catch along the weed edge!
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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In just under 2hrs last evening I removed 40 BCP between 5 and 7" and 10 BG between 4-5". I'd like to remove 200 BCP / 50 BG before fall.  There were 2-3 crappie in this size range that were in much better physical shape than those in the bucket - I released those back to the pond. These were both tall and very thickly built fish. I figured keeping a few good ones in the population can't hurt too bad. Bad news: my BG are busy building nests. Good news: the curlyleaf is so thick in the shallows that the BG have very little suitable nesting areas compared to the last 2 springs No sign of my YP or HSB
Last edited by Matzilla; 05/22/18 10:18 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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The bluegill here completed their first nesting cycle a couple of days ago. Sounds about right for your area. Good luck!
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I baited the cloverleaf trap and set it in 10 fow tonight after a few buddies asked for bullheads to use as flathead bait.
I also hand fed about a lb of left over sportsmans choice feed...surprisingly my new stocked bass went to town and ate darn near all of it. I need tonget some more feed and start feeding the fish nightly again
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Only 9 bullheads so far, over 75 bcp and 25 bg removed from the pond
While feeding tonight I spotted a monster lmb (20+”) cruisimg the weed esge along with a giant cloud of tiny fry. LMB are feeding very well, BG are taking pellets off the surface...male bg are mudding up the shoreline water as they make beds, lmb are eating them, still no signs of my yp or hsb
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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nice Matzilla i wish the ponds i had had a better crappie population crappies are my favorite fish to catch and eat and I would be positive that if there where crappies in the the pond i could keep them managed just a minnow and slip bobber.
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Matzilla That is some fast pace fishing! I have a pond of similar size as yours with Walleye, Perch, and Blue Gill. I have considered adding another species but I'm afraid it will make management a nightmare. If you had it to do over again would you go with as many species or limit it to 2 or 3 ?
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If i had to do it over again and i was the sole owner of the pond, no hoa, i would have drained it and started over lol
I would have done smb, yp, res, and we and hsb. I love catching giant bluegill so this will work for now haha
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Yesterday was my first time being at the pond in 6 weeks due to medical reasons. It felt great to finally get down there!
I caught and removed 6 BCP, 7 BH, and a 4" LMB (guess they got a spawn off)
I cruised around and checked out BG on beds - it looks like the average size is 1-3" larger than last year with a majority of male fish on beds in the 5-7" range!
Daily feeding will resume tonight.
The bad: someone walked off with my cloverleaf BH trap. The 14' jon boat that has been on the pond for 10+ years wasn't pulled up on to shore after use, blew across the pond and filled with rain water...I'm just going to let it sink next to the deadfall it is hung up in. The heavy rains have blocked off the mouths of my creeks to the pond with sediment - not good
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Sorry to hear about some of your challenges. I trust that you'll get everything under control soon.
J Waters
Dam'd Waters Farm
2/3 ac dam'd stream pond
BG, HBG, RES, LMB, YP
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I hope so! The one thing that bothers me the most is missing out on two months of feeding my fish!
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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It has been a while since I've updated this because I really haven't done anything at the pond hahah - been busy around the house and working. I've been sending my two oldest sons to the pond nearly every night to feed the fish but headed down myself over the weekend. We've had something like 10 inches of rain in the last week! There are multiple trees down from super saturated ground and heavy straight line winds. I have over a foot thick of new sediment (mostly sands) at the mouth of the primary creek! The outlet is running at full bore and the pond is still 8-10" above normal pool The good news......I have HSB feeding!!!! I haven't seen these guys in so long but last night when I walked down to feed I saw a huge V heading to me from the far corner of the pond. It was a group of 10+ HSB that exploded on the surface once I tossed the first handful! I had a few LMB and a couple of BG mixed in during feeding 1.5lbs. The BH cleared up the rest.  some kind of bullrush has sprouted in the sediment  dead leaves are on the canopy of a fallen young oak - it is a shame and will be a royal pain to clear out  Two cottonwood branches that fell into the pond   there's a whole lot of suspended sediment in that water but it isn't bothering the fish or painted turtles any!
Last edited by Matzilla; 09/04/18 10:52 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Well I finally made it back down to the pond...I've had another pair of surgeries since last posting - one of which was a PCNL leaving a tube in my kidney. I had to break the rules and do some hiking to check on the pond lol found the row boat sunk in the mud, full of water  my two oldest sons took turns baling it out  They were still in good spirits after everything was done lol  My creek is completely blown out from the rains we've had this year and has created a new sand peninsula completely blocking its outflow. I'm going to let nature run its course with that one! I'll probably toss down some rye seed in the spring. I've got a nice algae bloom going which should lead to a productive winter for the fish so long as we don't get a ton of snow/rain. I might have to sneak back down there for some fishing... 
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Mat, good to see you posting again. Hope your recoveries are going well.
And, Good On You for breaking those "rules". Rules are only guidelines anyway, right? It seems we must pay the closest attention to what our bodies are telling us within the overall framework of what the docs are trying to prescribe.
And the two young men prolly look happier than if they were staring at a screen, right?!
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Hahahah that's so true! I had to sneak down yesterday and fish out some bullhead and stunted crappie! Hopefully I'll be all better by the time ice hits - I've been thinking of doing an underwater camera survey of the pond to see if I can find my YP and HSB
My boys don't mind the outdoors but it isn't high on either one of their priorities. Myself, growing up, I loved to fish - maybe one day they will too.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Joined: Aug 2016
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Winter has set in on the pond...the south 2/3 has 3" of ice which tapers down to 1" on the north 1/3  I have open water all long the inlet creek and marshy area with a decent amount of flow keeping water well oxygenated. Nice clear ice will allow sunlight to penetrate for quite some time so long as the snow and rain stay away lol water clarity is also excellent considering the wet fall we have had. I noticed quite a bit of leafy, flat stemmed, or small pond weed bits floating under the ice, nice and green. Makes me wonder if the beavers are still around - I didn't see any sign of them, however. I have my 6th surgery in 6 months scheduled for dec 27th so I'm going to have to go against orders and ice fish the pond this week hahah
Last edited by Matzilla; 12/10/18 10:24 AM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Good luck with the fishing and be careful.
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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 A good buddy and I pulled out a few bluegills and crappie and released a LMB. We stayed on the south side and fished 4" of nice clear ice that will sadly be melting off the rest of this week.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Matzilla just getting all caught up on your story. Interesting read for sure. You have had a ruff 6 months for sure. Keep your sprits up those fish and boys need ya. I hope all goes well for ya.
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Hey Mat good update so know what's all in the pond last I know it was BG,BH,WE,YP,HSB,LMB,BC anything else are thoes all still presents r u still get many bullheads and the bluegills still stunted or haa that been solved
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Same fish....honestly if it was my whole owned pond and not part of the hoa - I would have killed it off and started a WE, SMB, RES and YP only pond.
Bluegill size is slowly improving, as are the black crappie. Still trying to harvest as many fish to thin the herd as possible on both accounts. Bullheads - I need to build a couple more traps and hit the pond hard this year....I don't mind their fry as they are excellent forage but the mature BH are just devastating the amount of available food.
I haven't been to the pond since December and am set to have a kidney removed next month - I probably wont be down there again until May
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Just read your story on your pond. You have great determination Matt. One person can make a difference with time and effort. I hope your medical problems all turn out good for you.
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill
I Subscribe
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Back at it!!!! I hit up the pond last night to check things over and wet a line. GBH circled and squawked a few times, snapping turtle lost all of her eggs to 'coons - for the 3rd year in a row. My feeder creek completely blew out with all of the rain we've had but the good news is all the thick and tall rye growing on the newly expanded peninsula. I also have a large deadfall cotton wood to deal with. Oh and the outlet is clogged up with a stack of dead wood. The great news - my BG RW's are on the climb!!!! I caught over 25 BG's last night. Average lengths have increased +1-1.5" and the shoulders on those little guys are larger than they've ever been. I am still culling the potato chip BG's and BH's.  Still no sign of YP or HSB. I caught a few LMB and saw several more cruising in the upper water column. Most fish are lurking in what is left of the curlyleaf stalks
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Fished the pond with an UL floating rapala yesterday. These first two speak to the aggressiveness of the BG/BCP - both were tossed on bank.   Very close to culling size for the goals of this pond.....I need her to chomp up some more BG, BH and BCP before she's done, however.  I need to clear the outlet today and might do some more fishing if time allows
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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hit it hard yesterday  cleared the little bit of debris from the outlet and put a solid effort into removing BH along with some potato chip BG and BCP
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Mat did you catch all them on rod and reel? That’s a bunch
Last edited by Pat Williamson; 06/17/19 12:33 PM.
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Pat, sure did - took about 2hrs to catch those in the basket but most of that time was spent tooling around top water frogging bass lol! Once I start tossing around the slip float the BH are impossible to keep off the line.
I need to build another cloverleaf trap very soon
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Mat what you using for bait for the bullheads? I’m catching them on shad imitation jigs
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I've caught them on darn near everything I've fished....mostly a slip bobber to a tungsten ice jig https://sportsmensdirect.com/shop/ice-jigs/heavy-metal-pro-series-tungsten-jigs/size 4mm then I use a small black twister tail - its the most durable bait that they will continue to hit over and over. I've used red worms, tube jigs, gulp, power bait, etc. and the super cheap twister tails hold up the best. They're attracted to the sound of the jig and bobber hitting the water thats for sure
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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I've been so busy working on projects around the house the last year I haven't had a ton of time to spend at the pond. I cleared our walking path trail a few weeks back and have done a little bit of fishing with my youngest son (7) while my oldest sons (13 and 15) have been maintaining the boats and keeping an eye on things. Bullhead numbers are way down! In fact, they're getting harder to trap so I'm building another cloverleaf to help out. We have a couple of cone style net traps running without much luck. I have still not seen many, or any, HSB - haven't caught one either. YP also seem to be gone or very good at hiding and avoiding a hook. The LMB are on fire! They seem to be doing a decent job of picking off smaller fish and the average size increase of our crappie and BG are proving that. I haven't been feeding the fish for a while now but will start back up here in a couple of weeks. It is a great gauge on the size and numbers of fish in the pond by spotting what readily takes the feed. Feeding over traps also helps to trap stunted gills and bullheads Cleared 800' of 8-12' wide trail down to the pond over the weekend....the trail wasn't too bad but hadn't been touched in a couple of years. Now we can get our ATV's on site to do more work. ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50159410527_763d03f626_b.jpg) ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50159410287_0042861c86_b.jpg) Plan for this fall/winter is to improve trails/access, trap and fish!
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Made a new cloverleaf for trapping bg, crappie and bullheads. 2'x2'x18"h with double rolled swinging doors for the bait basket and emptying door. Hopefully going to get it in the pond tonight. ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50192617662_0f4481779f_b.jpg) ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50191809278_1f7a2be4da_b.jpg)
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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picture with doors open or explain what a double rolled door is?
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A double rolled edge is when you fold back the edge twice, so the sharp pokey edge is concealed within itself.
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very nice! Now please update us on how well the trap works!
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Will do!!! Didn't make it down there last night - Listened to the Pond Boss live on FB instead haha
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Joined: Aug 2016
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Did some fishing on the pond over the weekend ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50209975998_99391df32c_b.jpg) Bass fishing is super slow this time of year on the pond....evenings with top water frogs produce blow ups. I have a very chunky (for hot summer) 12-16" batch of fish with a few hogs over 17" - bluegill and crappie are hard to come by but I did get a couple that were fed to 'coons Cloverleaf had a single 13" bullhead after 12hrs of soaking. moved it from 8' to 5' of water last night and will check again this evening. I fed about 2lbs of old sportsmans choice last night and saw a few bass, mostly bullheads but the occasional bluegill surfacing to feed. I feed over the trap to help up catch numbers Some interesting observations - I have an orange/red stained algae bloom, maybe its nearing its end? Water quality sucks, no rain = 1' lower then the drain = no circulation, we need rain. FA died off 2 weeks ago when the flow stopped
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Joined: Aug 2016
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fishing has been terrible on the pond...I've noticed that drought plays a huge role in fish activity on my little pond. The summers we have a very dry august-september, fishing is terrible, feeding is terrible, and I get a rusty brown bloom over the deeper sections of the pond. Until the rain started over the weekend we had gone 4 weeks with 0 flow in/out of pond.
The new trap is producing, however....it has been laying in 4-7' of water and has yielded 6 bullhead over 11", 3 black crappie all over 10", and 4 bluegill over 7". My sizes are increasing dramatically! Bullhead have moved deep, so this week the trap is going in 10-12' of water.
Next method of bullhead control will be hand feeding and picking them off with the 22
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Do you have oxygen in the water at that depth now?
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...Next method of bullhead control will be hand feeding and picking them off with the 22 Keep a long handled net near by because the percussion of the 22 hitting the water, but missing the BH may very well stun it, but leave it to come to and live another day. This concept of culling would tempt me to buy a 20 gauge shotgun and several boxes of birdshot. I'm always looking for a reason to buy another firearm and the shorter home defense version of a 20 gauge would be very good at culling feeding BH...I would think. If not, I don't have a home defense 20 gauge in the collection...win/win or at least lose/win!
Fish on!, Noel
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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You might get better concussion from rifled slugs vs. birdshot. The small pellets won't travel very far in the water.
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Joined: Aug 2016
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I'll have plenty of oxygen after the 3-5" of rain this week...those bullhead suspend over deep water during hot/dry periods of the summer and follow the thermocline to the shallows, getting the trap near that drop off to thermocline zone is ideal
I need a 20ga for this bullhead culling bad! hahaha, as the population drops, trapping is harder. Shooting is going to be the easiest (and most fun) way of population control especially for the larger BH. Good idea on the net to collect the stunned fish quickly
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Do your BH come to pellets? If they do you can catch em out pretty easy at feeding time with a little piece of nightcrawler or a pellet fly.
Throw net works good for a toss or two. They wise up to that real fast, but you can catch a bunch of them before they figure it out.
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You might get better concussion from rifled slugs vs. birdshot. The small pellets won't travel very far in the water. You would definitely get better stunning with slugs. I was thinking low budget (besides the gun purchase) and neglecting any collateral damage of desired fish species that might be feeding as well.
Fish on!, Noel
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Joined: Aug 2016
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BH have got to be the easiest fish to feed train - yes they come to pellets constantly....they are easy to catch on rod and reel when we feed regularly but we've just been too darn busy with house projects this year. When we feed often the fish start to react to the sound of pellets hitting the water, if you loft a bobber pretty high in the air and let it splash down hard, you usually have a fish within seconds. I'm hoping to wrap up the rest of our projects at home, just finished our kitchen remodel, gotta paint a few rooms and finish building out our basement bathroom/laundry room.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Joined: Aug 2016
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Took the day off work to spend time at the pond I sold my old helix 5 g1 and got a helix 5 g2 with autochart....made a map of the pond. It is not 100% spot on but it is very close ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50442042251_c3970b9c91_o.png) While cruising around making the map I found several schools of crappies and gills stacked up and suspended ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50442226947_a5d60698f0_c.jpg) Caught a few to cull from the pond - tossed the fat ones back - skinny ones are on shore for the racoons ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50442227037_a9b5281e0c_c.jpg) Nice to see some 10" crappie! ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50441352963_fcd15d6f4a_c.jpg) No pictures of bluegills but I caught 3 today, all very fat. I'll weigh and measure for rw tracking next time I fish ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50442226992_f923bc110d_b.jpg) Water clarity is rocking, with 3' of visibility, pond is looking very nice lately.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Anyone else notice that the 10" crappie is a white crappie, v/s the culls all being blacks? Wonder if the black crappie are more prone to stunting?
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Joined: Aug 2016
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Anyone else notice that the 10" crappie is a white crappie, v/s the culls all being blacks? Wonder if the black crappie are more prone to stunting? Interesting enough, I caught 2 whites that day - same school, the one not pictured was 9" - I've only caught 6 white crappie out of the pond in the last 5 years. They are very easy to catch this time of year because they suspend right near the 2nd drop off to the basin
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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The Black Crappie are stunted. Look at how big their eyes are in comparison to their bodies.
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Looking to thin out some fish this winter....got my 7 y/o on a school of dink bluegills ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50826322866_f15bda7df2_b.jpg) ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50826417902_7a3826fbae_b.jpg) unfortunately i have a 30' deadfall ash tree that landed on the pond a couple of weeks ago that is restricting access to a spot where we tie up the row boat to access a back trail. I'll have to take the chainsaw down and log it out.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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RStringer |
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looks like u have a fisherman in the family. Good deal
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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Would love to hear any opinions/guess why the BC are said to be stunted and the WC apparently are not.
Food items reported for Pomoxis annularis
n = 9
Food I Food II Food III Food name Country Predator Stage
nekton finfish bony fish
Aplodinotus grunniens USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos insects insects
Diptera larvae USA recruits/juv.
nekton finfish bony fish
Dorosoma cepedianum USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos insects insects
Ephemeroptera nymphs USA recruits/juv.
nekton finfish bony fish
Menidia beryllina USA recruits/juv.
nekton finfish bony fish
unidentified USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos benth. crust. benth. copepods
unidentified USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos insects insects
unidentified USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos benth. crust. n.a./other benth. crustaceans
unidentified crustaceans USA juv./adults
Food items reported for Pomoxis nigromaculatus
n = 4
Food I Food II Food III Food name Country Predator Stage
nekton finfish bony fish
cyprinid remains USA juv./adults
nekton finfish bony fish
Dorosoma cepedianum USA juv./adults
zoobenthos benth. crust. n.a./other benth. crustaceans
unidentified crustaceans USA juv./adults
zoobenthos insects insects
Unidentified odonate USA juv./adults
Last edited by ewest; 01/12/21 02:09 PM.
.gif) 
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Matt,
Its great to see you having a great time with your son. I hope you are panfrying them. That's the size we usually keep in the ponds around here. Pan fried in bacon fat with a good coating of Tony Chachere's Creole Seasoning and cornmeal ... yum! My kids dominate a plate of them and its hard to get any LOL!
There was something I recently tried with trout that may help to get the bones out ... though I haven't tried it yet with BG. It involves allowing the pan fried fish to cool enough to hold and then holding upside down. Just reach down and grip the backbone and pull up through the cavity. Would be a good idea to have already removed the anal fin. This worked great on trout which have pin bones and might also work with BG. My kids love to eat pan fried BG. They eat crispy fins too. My wife isn't fond that practice ... but who is she to judge? As a kid, while eating squirrel, she'd crack open the skull and dine on the brains right along with her dad, LOL!
It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers
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OP
Joined: Aug 2016
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Would love to hear any opinions/guess why the BC are said to be stunted and the WC apparently are not.
Food items reported for Pomoxis annularis
n = 9
Food I Food II Food III Food name Country Predator Stage
nekton finfish bony fish
Aplodinotus grunniens USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos insects insects
Diptera larvae USA recruits/juv.
nekton finfish bony fish
Dorosoma cepedianum USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos insects insects
Ephemeroptera nymphs USA recruits/juv.
nekton finfish bony fish
Menidia beryllina USA recruits/juv.
nekton finfish bony fish
unidentified USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos benth. crust. benth. copepods
unidentified USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos insects insects
unidentified USA recruits/juv.
zoobenthos benth. crust. n.a./other benth. crustaceans
unidentified crustaceans USA juv./adults
Food items reported for Pomoxis nigromaculatus
n = 4
Food I Food II Food III Food name Country Predator Stage
nekton finfish bony fish
cyprinid remains USA juv./adults
nekton finfish bony fish
Dorosoma cepedianum USA juv./adults
zoobenthos benth. crust. n.a./other benth. crustaceans
unidentified crustaceans USA juv./adults
zoobenthos insects insects
Unidentified odonate USA juv./adults I've wondered about this a lot - some contributing factors at play here: there are much more black crappie vs white crappie in the pond based off what I have caught. The whites tend to cruise the basin while the blacks tend to hold to cover. I have very large amounts of yoy bluegill, bullhead, tadpoles/frogs and should have plenty of plankton sized food chain to eat - competition for smaller food items is substantially higher than yoy sized food items. White crappie can of 8-10" can likely start eating the crawfish available in the pond. I would think that putting even more effort into thinning the herd should continue to show improving results in not only the black crappie but the bluegill. Reducing black crappie, bluegill and bullhead numbers. My native and stocked bass are doing very well, i have great numbers of 10-14" bass and very few larger - top end of lmb is pushing 6lbs and likely 20", and i can verify i have 3 of those sized fish in the pond...they are just very hard to catch. I'm working to improve access to the pond which will in turn make it much easier to feed on a regular basis. Any extra minnows from fishing other bodies of water are deposited in the pond after verifying they are all truly minnows and not unwanted fish. We dumped a few dozen in right after taking pictures Saturday. Thoughts? opinions? Jpsdad - we leave the small bluegills on the ice for raccoons and bobcats to eat. But I'm getting to the point that our cull fish are fastly approaching fillet size. I have seen improvements in bluegill size since I've started this project - and the pond is becoming more fun to fish. Sadly I don't think my hsb survived, and I have no caught a walleye in almost 2 years, i haven't seen a yellow perch since the spring after stocking.
Last edited by Matzilla; 01/13/21 02:43 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Joined: May 2013
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I can't imagine how YP would not survive. Do you have big predators like CC or Blue cats? Could your pond possibly winter kill? I would think YP are very hardy and would do well.
Ditto for walleye, outside of a winter kill or too hot of a summer and no cool water refuge, hard to know what would make them die. How big were the walleye when last seen?
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OP
Joined: Aug 2016
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november 2017 i stocked the following
Hybrid Striped Bass 8" to 10" 175 (most were 10-12" and very healthy upon stocking - approximately 15 were stunned while stocking but all swam off shortly after)
Largemouth Bass 6" to 8" 100 (these were all 7-11 upon delivery)
Walleye 50 (most 10")
Red Ear Sunfish 3" to 4" 150
Yellow Perch 3" to 5" 150 (these were actually 6-7")
Jan 14 2018 i caught a single 12" walleye, may 2019 i caught a 14" walleye - haven't caught one since
HSB - i saw a few feeding in the spring of 18 - nothing since...i'm totally surprised i haven't seen nor caught a single one as they were extremely healthy high rw fish upon delivery
YP - saw eggs on leaves the spring of 18 - nothing since
LMB, crappie and bg are abundant - the stocked lmb were a great option as they have done very well both growing and spawning
CC have been caught on rare occasions in the late spring/early summer - 3 caught in the last 3 years. The pond above mine is CC only and I've talked to the owner about installing an agri drain cover on his outlet pipe to prevent them from coming down to my pond in heavy rains. I might just buy the cover and install it myself this spring haha
no blue cats
no winter kill
My pond maxes out at 82 degrees measured during dry periods of extreme heat - i've taken a few readings due to curiosity
In the last 4 years I have only had 6-8 weeks of 0 outlet flow and i always have incoming flow - evaporation must be higher than inlet flow.
My goals for '21 will include further culling via the cloverleaf, and more regular feeding. I'm going to run a trotline for bullhead and maybe a couple jug lines for catfish over the summer. I'm also looking to remove the top end of the bass population - i have a few 18" + lmb that should go. the stunted bass are fun to catch, and I still want to have a good population of 6-9" bg with bonus crappie.
I would totally agree that YP should do great in this pond. Food sources are excellent, spawning habitat is perfect for yp, nice weed growth of curlyleaf every spring that holds until mid summer - the predator base is there to support a decent school of fast growing perch into jumbo range. I may try another stocking after '21 to see what happens. Maybe some more hsb too
Last edited by Matzilla; 01/14/21 01:22 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Thanks for the reply. Maybe someone else knows more about this than I do but it is crazy to think that only a certain type of fish would disappear and others thrive
Walleye can hang out deep and not be easy to see but should be catchable especially since you caught one in spring 2019 and it was 14" Pretty big for even a big CC to eat.
HSB, I have no experience but as they get bigger they usually are pretty easy to get to feed on pellets and should be seen schooling in open water.
YP if they are stocked as pellet trained YP should stay trained and should be willing to come to eat pellets in morning and early evening lighting conditions. IF there are still mature female YP in there which I would have to believe there are then they would lay eggs every spring still.
It doesn't sound like you would have a kill from poor water conditions or from excessive temperatures of the water.
I'm not confident that I can tell if you truly had a winter kill or not. I can't tell that for my own pond either as any fish that dies under the ice probably won't be seen as the critters under the ice clean it up.
Before I would pour more fish into it it might be interesting to see if you can set up a underwater GoPro like camera and see if you can capture image of any YP or Walleye (or HSB for that matter). I recently reviewed an ad for a $50 GoPro knock off that had as good or better features than the name brand GoPro. Fascinating what you might learn if you had an eye on the bottom of the pond. Some are able to stream live to WIFI but again I don't know how well they can stream from underwater to your wifi network.
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Some more ice culling from the weekend ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50853112792_1177c721b4_b.jpg) ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50853020351_c1351d0479_b.jpg)
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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RStringer |
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Bluegill, Black Crappie, Brown Bullhead? Good job!!!
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My sons and I were able to do quite a bit of culling over the winter and made a couple brush piles out of a very large deadfall that came down on the ice. ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51081738627_0f512dd036_b.jpg) I can now anchor the row boat and knock off small black crappie from the brush piles - they are "open" enough that LMB can ambush prey easily I went down to the pond last night and knocked off a few bluegill and black crappie to feed to the raccoons - once the curly leaf sets in the black crappie are much easier to catch and cull, they're pushing bait toward shore in the mornings and evenings now. ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51012458715_c45068f1ed_b.jpg) ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51081646926_746322d9ba_b.jpg) Water is 2' over normal due to a 10' rotten log being wedged in the outlet pipe haha that was a fun one to get out! Gotta love the water quality early in the spring - clear water, curly leaf is about to start sprouting, nice algae bloom starting to kick off, had a pair of wood ducks on the water when I made the hike down
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Been teaching my youngest to fish a top water frog for bass lately - yesterday he had 10+ blow ups, 2 hook ups and 1 to the boat Bass population is doing awesome! As much as I would like to have a trophy bluegill pond - the kids have just as much fun catching some big largemouth!!! We are in the middle of a drought locally so water quality is excellent (4-5' of visibility), FA is dwindling but still carrying a nice green shade bloom. Bout time to start running the cloverleaf trap again ![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51263721557_5e0b28acf3_b.jpg)
Last edited by Matzilla; 06/22/21 02:52 PM.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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Moderator Lunker
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Matt, that boy is the best reason to have a pond.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Matzilla |
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We are in the middle of a drought locally so water quality is excellent (4-5' of visibility). I think you want between 18-30" of visibility. 48-60" is probably a sign that your water is infertile (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning about fertilization).
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." - Donny Miller
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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We are in the middle of a drought locally so water quality is excellent (4-5' of visibility). I think you want between 18-30" of visibility. 48-60" is probably a sign that your water is infertile (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning about fertilization). Or there is a dense weed population that is utilizing the nutrients before the phytoplankton can get going.
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OP
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We are in the middle of a drought locally so water quality is excellent (4-5' of visibility). I think you want between 18-30" of visibility. 48-60" is probably a sign that your water is infertile (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning about fertilization). Or there is a dense weed population that is utilizing the nutrients before the phytoplankton can get going. kinda both - the inlet to the pond is a bit of a wetland, which has transitioned over the last 5 years from 90% bull tongue/10% grass to 80% tall grasses. The grasses do a great job of controlling the silt coming down the feeder creeks and outlet from the pond above. They also seem to pull a lot more nutrients than the bull tongue. These years with little rain = huge curly leaf pondweed stands. Unusually high spring temps killed off the curly leaf a bit early. Result, I have some very clear (relative) early summer water. We got over an 1" of rain last night and about 3" in the forecast for the next 5 days. The downfall to the clarity, I have a GBH that is on the pond daily and the BG beds are deeper than I've ever seen - 4-5' on the downward slope of the shoreline which makes it hard to gauge the size/numbers. Hence, I need to get the cloverleaf going to get a decent survey.
Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
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